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A message regarding reported layoffs at CCP

First post First post First post
Author
Regnag Leppod
Doomheim
#221 - 2014-06-08 02:07:21 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would genuinely want that demographic to go berserk and start quitting.


Hello? Are we even playing the same game here?

Let's start with the two most basic reasons that the majority would list

1. tears
2. lulz




The founding principal of Goonswarm in it's earliest days. Fortunately, most of them realized that, properly maintained, Eve is a source of infinite amounts of those.


Goonswarm may have had that as a founding principal (and may yet), but even if they gave up on it, it turned into "the popular thing to do". Industrialists and PvE minded players in general are the most despised players in Eve, and it would be to the glee of hundreds of thousands if CCP pushed them out of the game. In fact, I'd say that the majority want it bad enough, that they'd risk killing Eve just to see it done.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
#222 - 2014-06-08 02:44:51 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:

Can't agree that Crius will cause a highsec apocalypse though, and all joking aside I'm not sure why anyone would genuinely want that demographic to go berserk and start quitting. The serious industrialists will adapt to the changes...


I'd like to add to this. My post is based on the assumption of proper implementation of features in Crius as they were presented by devs (devblogs and forum discussions).

Crius sure adds a lot of change to industry and it has its downsides as all systems do. But those calling it a doom for highsec are not really reading what the changes will bring. Crius will not bring more difficulty and less profit. Quite the contrary. I caught myself stopping production lines of my industrial alt because I couldn't be bothered to work in the current old system in anticipation of the new one. A lot of what Crius will bring is making the life of an industrialist much easier since it brings so much opportunities.

Industrialists will not be hit by Crius - they will prosper, even individuals not belonging to any large entity. The cries of doom are coming either from those not understanding the implications of changes or by those who got space rich of the current system and are afraid to lose their cash cows (aka. methods of operation).

Pure PvP-ers, on the other hand, will get hit by higher prices. As far as I see it, the only thing that could lower the prices is abundance of base materials locally (0.0 and highsec).

Nullsec has means to secure their material extraction operations or to increase resource exploitation, since it's already a renter heaven out there. The problem will be highsec mining with the increasing number of corporations whose primary activity is suicide ganking, which is a change in demographics introduced only recently (a year or two ago.. it's "recent" since EVE is already 11 Smile). I'm not against suicide ganking... far from it. My observation is just that game designers and player community should find a way to guide or encourage new players or players that are not that interested in PvP to explore other options when it comes to where and how to mine/PvE relatively safely. And no, I'm not talking about what CODE. is doing by "educating" the miners, since that gets immediately discarded as pure alliance propaganda at best.

Highsec players, especially the sort of players who want to gather resources first when they get into a new game in order to be free to play it properly later, are endangered species now. Those are the players that don't interact much because they simply don't understand the community or the environment yet. Sure, they come into the game attracted by the open economy and potential for mass PvP, but having talked to many newbies during my 8 year EVE "career", they usually start the game by skilling, grinding and gathering resources before they even think to get involved in the massive multiplayer aspect. There is an increasing chance that during that "character development" phase, they get slap in the face with a suicide gank. Usually no one quits after first time, but I have noticed that the 3rd time is a breaking point to a large percentage of them.

The thing that keeps them from looking for alternatives is thinking that they couldn't possibly be safer anywhere than in high security space. What can be done? Well, for a start, I'm going to discard looking at suicide ganking altogether, because suicide ganking is only the amplifier, not a cause for the problems. Solution of my in-game friends and me, which worked in most occasions, was to literally drag them (newbies) to nullsec and W-Space and show them that the real security is not in highsec space, but in a player group.

However, there have been significant obstacles in game design that makes even this direct approach fail miserably. Industry in nullsec was (is?) dead. A player could not sustain meaningful production lines while being a simple member of a large alliance. No simple player is ever allowed to run their own POS in nullsec and station slots were always a limiting factor. Sure, there are regions of nullsec where there are free slots, but you can't even think of employing 3 account alts (30 production lines at lvl 4 skill) without mostly maxing out the capacity of the stations. This discourages industry before it even started. Another bad thing was lack of low level minerals, which was addressed some time ago with ABC ore low-end increase and will be tweaked again in Crius.

Wormholes suffers (or have suffered) from a whole range of problems. POSes being the dominant one. Then came the inability to even fit subsystems to T3 ships (which have been fixed only recently, almost 4 years after Apocrypha) and as far as I know, you still can't assemble a T3 ship on POS. Mining for local needs, mostly ammo or basic ship production, in W-space was catastrophic because of the design of refining arrays and the fact that Ice should be imported certainly doesn't help. Most of the players that left the game after they have been introduced to other areas of space than higsec have left because of the "attrition warfare" inflicted by small but crippling bad game mechanics.

Many of the problems for this direct player retention method that I've mentioned are going to be resolved in Crius, but the game design must continue in this direction if we want to keep newbies in the game. Suicide ganking doesn't help in keeping the players, but it does help significantly with amplifying the problems in seemingly unrelated areas of the game that cause players to leave whether they have been a victim of a gank or not.

I should really start my own EVE blog (would anyone read it QuestionShockedLol)
Deltarus Shadowflight
Alternate Factions
#223 - 2014-06-08 02:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Deltarus Shadowflight
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would genuinely want that demographic to go berserk and start quitting.


Hello? Are we even playing the same game here?

Let's start with the two most basic reasons that the majority would list

1. tears
2. lulz




The founding principal of Goonswarm in it's earliest days. Fortunately, most of them realized that, properly maintained, Eve is a source of infinite amounts of those.


Goonswarm may have had that as a founding principal (and may yet), but even if they gave up on it, it turned into "the popular thing to do". Industrialists and PvE minded players in general are the most despised players in Eve, and it would be to the glee of hundreds of thousands if CCP pushed them out of the game. In fact, I'd say that the majority want it bad enough, that they'd risk killing Eve just to see it done.


I never understood why you hate them so much. This is a sandbox game, its there to be played how ever you want it to be played. People complain when CCP steps in and tells you how you should do things and makes changes, yet you feel that its ok to do that to others players? They are doing their own thing, its the gankers that are swooping in and cause them a problem, not the other way around. I can understand the fun of ganking as well but no as a goal to push people out. In that mind set, is it ok to for CCP to ban your account because they dont like the idea of you playing that way?
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
#224 - 2014-06-08 12:43:57 UTC
Anathema Device wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
As someone who has been around long enough and watched how CCP does things, this really isn't a surprise at all.

Watching CCP over the years has been like watching a train slowly derail.

That is too harsh. Over the years CCP have provided you with more than one train wreck to watch.

CCP does deserve praise for continual improvement to EVE over the years.




No they don't. They really, really don't.

They have done an exceptionally poor job of fleshing the game out with the manpower they've been provided with and have instead spun their marketing in such a way as to make it the players responsibility to provide content and not the developer. Just another form of guilt shifting. Nearly any competent rival studio could've done more with less. The art team getting trumped so easily on the captain's quarters was very telling of that.
Josef Djugashvilis
#225 - 2014-06-08 12:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
I hope Dr Eyjo went off to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship.

I am all in favour of the massive ship re-balancing and the improvements to industry etc, but it would help if CCP shared its vision of the games future in a bit more detail than 'stuff'

I only do day (death) trips to null, but would love to see the entire thing overhauled so that the folk there can enjoy it more, and perhaps encourage small stakeholders (remember them)? to move there.

I am always sorry to see folk laid off from any job and wish them all a good, employed future.

This is not a signature.

Tairon Usaro
G-Fleet Alpha
G-Fleet Alliance
#226 - 2014-06-08 15:31:18 UTC
1st) my best wishes for the ones that have to leave CCP. I hope quickly find new jobs. Heads up, many of us have gone through this (including myself) and many of those say retrospectively that this enforced change was the best thing that ever happened to them, because otherwise they never would have left the little box they used to live in and never discovered that there is a different world out there.

2nd) the ones still working for CCP: keep up the good work ! I would assume that it is quite hard to keep faith in your employer right now, but keep doing it. During the last 3 fanfests I observed how much the business culture of software development improved. That was you and I know it was a tough process. Keep continuing it. You are on the right track
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2014-06-09 03:58:44 UTC
The last comment there is the right answer.

WE wish the best for those who have lost their jobs and for those left behind. We hope they all manage in this difficult time of transition.

Save the rest of it for another thread, ok?

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#228 - 2014-06-09 05:00:36 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Save the rest of it for another thread, ok?

Other threads get locked. Have you not been paying attention?

According to CCP and ISD, this is the thread for it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#229 - 2014-06-09 05:02:45 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I hope Dr Eyjo went off to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship.

He's head of analytics at CCP and has been since March, according to his LinkedIn page.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#230 - 2014-06-09 05:15:12 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I hope Dr Eyjo went off to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship.



I believe he is now in charge of Icelands university.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#231 - 2014-06-09 05:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
CCP Falcon posted this on the dust forum:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=164773&p=3
#56 Posted: 2014.06.08 20:26
19
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:


Guys, I urge you to wait until you can hear more from CCP this coming week, there is some patently false information included in this video. There is most certainly community staff and devs at CCP for CPM1 to work with, this idea that CCP has left the community with nobody just isn't true. It's sad that Saberwing and Eterne as gone, but others will be stepping up and the work on both Dust and Legion will continue.


"Keep calm, they will attempt to save their asses this week from looking bad."

Looking forward to that blue tag post. I expect nothing but the best corporate speak and misdirection.


Here's your blue tagged post, and no misdirection here at all.

The fact of the matter is, we're not going to go out with a megaphone and start screaming the names of people who were let go out of both personal and professional courtesy for those involved. Feel free to say what you will about professional and personal courtesy, but extremely hard decisions had to be made over the last week and on a personal note, I'm completely devastated that two fantastic members of the Community Team, and two great friends and colleagues were let go.

I wish both CCP Eterne and CCP Saberwing all the best for the future, and have no doubt in my mind that these two extremely talented guys will land firmly on their feet.

Similarly, the CPM are also not going to start screaming names of people who were let go. The CPM is not, and never will be, a source of gossip for the community. Anyone who thinks so, can strip that mentality out of their heads. It's not going to happen.

It's very true that the CPM have known about this since Friday (June 6), when I had a meeting with them at 20:00 UTC to discuss what has happened. They've acted extremely professionally over this, and have respected the fact that there are people behind these avatars, who've had their livelihoods and careers affected.

I'd like to personally thank the CPM for the manner in which they've handled this news, for their display of professionalism and integrity in absorbing and dealing with this information.

In the end, rest assured that development of DUST 514 and work on Project Legion remains unchanged, and will progress uninterrupted.

In the same respect, the CPM will continue to function. CCP Logibro has been, and will continue to remain, the CPM Coordinator. This has been his role since he came to CCP, and will continue to be his role moving forward. He has done, and will continue to own the CPM project for as long as I remain Community Manager with CCP.

The operation of, and future plans for the CPM will not be affected. If anything, going forward I'll be looking toward assisting CCP Logibro in pushing the CPM into the same, far more active role with DUST development that the CSM holds with EVE development.

I do not believe that there is compromise when it comes to using the CPM's knowledge and voice to assist us. The CSM is in it's 9th term now, and there are a lot of lessons that have already been learned in the previous 8 terms that can be carried over into the operation of the CPM.

On a note more concerning structure, the Community Team here at CCP has now been unified, which puts us in a position where all members of the team will now be working on community projects for DUST 514, Project Legion, EVE: Valkyrie and EVE Online going forward.

The community team is now made up of:

CCP Falcon
CCP Frame
CCP Gargant
CCP Guard
CCP Leeloo
CCP Logibro
CCP Phantom

I'm in the position where I hold the role of Community Manager, which will include serving as Community Manager for DUST 514 at the very least temporarily until we sit down and redefine people's roles to cover everything that needs to be considered.

Myself and the entire roster of the community team are seasoned veterans of New Eden, and we're on hand to make sure that you guys get the best experience possible. It's going to take us a little time to process all this, get over the fact that we've had to watch two really good friends and outstanding colleagues be let go, but I'm very confident that the team will pull together and deliver once we square things away.

The reason that this message didn't come sooner is simple - we were dealing with some incredibly bad news and had to sit down and assess the situation before deciding how to move forward. We're human, just like you guys. With that in mind, my attitude may seem a bit short in this post, for that I apologize, I'm usually incredibly direct in the way I address people, and to add to that, it's been a very upsetting week for a lot of us here at CCP.

In the same respect, I'm not going to tolerate rumor milling and the posting of blatant garbage regarding the CPM, or any of my friends and colleagues, including CCP staff and members of the Community. Anyone who wants to rumor mill and/or post garbage will be on the receiving end of a long summer vacation from the forums.

On that note, I'll extend the same offer I do to the EVE Community, because you guys are equally as important to the future of New Eden:

If you have concerns, issues, or feel like you'd like clarification, either on the forums or in private, either feel free to EVEmail my Dev character, catch me on twitter at @CCP_Falcon or catch me here on the forums, and I'm more than happy to talk.

Cheers,

- F

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#232 - 2014-06-09 05:19:02 UTC
Also posted these posts

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=164773&p=4

#66 Posted: 2014.06.08 21:06
5
Jadek Menaheim wrote:
I wonder how the Eve bros are responding to this news? CCP's Lapdog and Captain Crutches pointed out on twitter that CCP Manifest and CCP Mimic are not on that list of the new Community Team.
CCP Falcon wrote:
The community team is now made up of:

CCP Falcon
CCP Frame
CCP Gargant
CCP Guard
CCP Leeloo
CCP Logibro
CCP Phantom


CCP Mimic isn't part of the Community Team, she works elsewhere in the company, but lends the team a LOT of help when she's not too busy.

Likewise, CCP Manifest is not part of the Community Team. He's our Senior PR guy, but sometimes works alongside the Community team when needed.

Hope this clarifies the situation.

- F



Gemini Cuspid wrote:
You can accuse of [email protected]@hattery but when I hear statements such as


Seasoned veteran of EVE
the same courtesy I extend to EVE players
redefining roles


The implicit message I am getting that is subtly hidden and tucked away is this:


You might want to re-read what I posted:

CCP Falcon wrote:
Myself and the entire roster of the community team are seasoned veterans of New Eden


New Eden does not equal EVE. New Eden consists of all our products that are currently playable.

You can read between the lines as much as you like, but when it boils down to it, it's in our best interests to have the communities of both DUST 514 and EVE in a healthy state.

Argue all you like and attempt to read between the lines, but that's our objective.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Josef Djugashvilis
#233 - 2014-06-09 06:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
baltec1 wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I hope Dr Eyjo went off to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship.



I believe he is now in charge of Icelands university.


I am aware of that, but what I posted still stands.

But thank you for being helpful by bring this fact to the attention of those who were not aware of the good Dr career move.

This is not a signature.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#234 - 2014-06-09 06:53:18 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I hope Dr Eyjo went off to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship.



I believe he is now in charge of Icelands university.


I am aware of that, but what I posted still stands.

But thank you for being helpful by bring this fact to the attention of those who were not aware of the good Dr career move.

But I'm pretty sure despite that he's still at CCP.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#235 - 2014-06-09 08:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Matilda Cecilia Fock
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I hope Dr Eyjo went off to greener pastures to further his career rather than as a 'man in the know' leaving a sinking ship.



I believe he is now in charge of Icelands university.


I am aware of that, but what I posted still stands.

But thank you for being helpful by bring this fact to the attention of those who were not aware of the good Dr career move.

But I'm pretty sure despite that he's still at CCP.


Dr. Eyjogg is rector of the Akureyri University. That's a full time job even in a small university.

The part that interested me about Dr. Eyjogg's career change is that he was not just the resident economist, but he also was tasked with new player retention. Looks like getting new players has become essentially a lost cause to CCP.

Every layoff is a disaster, and as FunkyBacon stated, it's a failure of management; when you let go someone like Xhagen, whose whole professional career can be resumed as "I worked for CCP for 11 years", you can bet that something really bad is going on behind the scenes.

Despite Falcon's soothing words, it begs to wonder who exactly is going to work in Legion and why should those devs work on Legion rather than EVE; and from the point of view of someone who's been seeing this kind of stuff coming for years since Incarna crashed and burned, it begs to wonder whether CCP is taking the appropiate steps.

It's not just that currently I am the only person I knew when I started who still is active (an that because of Humble Bundle); even some people I met last year are gone, succumbed to the 3 years expiracy date of anyone who doesn't involves in PvP. And what do CCP plan to do? Push people harder into PvP by all means possible, from punishing hisec PvE with nigarddly rewards to plain delivering new PvE only to lowsec, and further goal of handing the next Jesus feature (player built stargates and New Space) to nullsec alliances alone.

And I wonder how do they plan to keep paying the bills once they've told to 80% of their subscribers to HTFU or go away, and who was the briliant head who perpretated such approach to EVE's dirty secret: the people who PAY the game are not PLAYING it.

Rather than try and retain the 80% longer by figuring what's wrong with EVE for them, they are attempting to push/lure them into becoming a part of the 20% who haves a long tenure by taking EVE as it happened to become.

Well, we would do much more than "level our Ravens" if CCP gave us the tools, rather than force us to deal with neverending play sessions which cannot be postponed, prevailing and riskless griefing and outnumbering as the alpha and omega of combat. Looks like David Braben and Chris Roberts know how to do that, but hey, these guys already were making top notch videogames when CCP was at school...

Q: Should we be worried? A: Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.

The Icefox
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#236 - 2014-06-09 10:52:01 UTC
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
TMC reports that also CCP Xhagen and CCP Loxy are gone.What?

Unless I'm wrong, CCP fired 19 developers in december, 56 in april, and now 49. That's a good bunch of people.





I'm stealing your sig. I think its highly appropriate.





Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.

Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A:  Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or X̶h̶a̶g̶e̶n̶ leaves.

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
#237 - 2014-06-09 11:08:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
Well, we would do much more than "level our Ravens" if CCP gave us the tools, rather than force us to deal with neverending play sessions which cannot be postponed, prevailing and riskless griefing and outnumbering as the alpha and omega of combat. Looks like David Braben and Chris Roberts know how to do that, but hey, these guys already were making top notch videogames when CCP was at school...


I honestly don't know which game are you mentioning here.

- EVE has never been about never ending play session for me;
- I could always postpone my play time, from hours to months without any issues;
- I have never been a victim of "risk-less griefing" (I'm assuming it's suicide ganking you are talking about), nor I have participated in one... (ok.. maybe once... it was new year's eve and I was drunkOops.. don't askLol);
- I have tried blob warfare for a year, got bored with it and continued to play like I want to;
- I always had a choice of how to engage in combat;

But I guess:
- it's easier and more in-game rewarding to play long sessions than to set expectations of people with who you are playing with and be clear that you have a life outside the game. Sure, you won't progress as fast in the game if you avoid marathon playing sessions, which for me, after 8 years of playing, doesn't mean a thing;

- it's easier to complain about not being able to postpone play sessions than to organize your gameplay in a way that you can always do that and not loose anything valuable;

- it's easier to be a victim of "risk-less griefieng" than to use the tools you have at your disposal: blockade runners and collateralized freight services like Red Frog and PushX.

- it's easier to be in a blob or complain about blobs when you can't be bothered to look for PvP in another area. Apart from lowsec and NPC 0.0, there are hundreds of renter systems in player owned 0.0 space where you can hunt solo or in a small gang as much as you like. Their renter agreements usually don't allow them to even make defense fleets that can go to other systems. Renter agreements for all major factions are freely available on their respectable websites and renting forum threads. And if that's not enough, W-Space is made of thousands of systems where small scale or even solo PvP are pretty much the only thing you will get (apart from rare coalition based ops which happen once in 2-3 months);

- it's easier to follow orders of the FC and push F1 when needed, than to FC yourself or even do solo PvP because being an FC or flying solo requires much more effort;



Yes, there are problems in the game, but none of the things you have listed are among them. Those are not the problems of the game, but rather the problems of your game.

And I'm not posting here to flame or criticize, I'm just trying to show you that EVE can be much more than you currently see. There are many ways to improve the quality of your game:

- try enlisting in some of the PvP classes, especially those who teach you how to become an FC. EVE-University and Agony Unleashed, for example. There are many others, but I can't remember them right now. (I actually plan to enlist myself as well, just to see what they are teaching and for a new experience);

- try Red vs Blue. Small cost Frig/destroyer/t1 cruiser PvP can be much more fun than it sounds. I've done that (confirmation in my corp history)

- try joining a 0.0 alliance that already has an established blob. That way you can even go hunt solo even when there's a blob active and you won't be missed. I've done that in Morsus Mihi, when I just couldn't join the blob for whatever reason, but I still was in the alliance that was arguably the head of the old NC (the very definition of blob warfare).

- be a pirate. Roam the renter space (hint: it's the whole eastern and south western part of the 0.0 map at the moment). You can finish the roam faster that they can organize a defense fleet, I guarantee it.

- join a wormhole corp. Many great guys are there and many good fights happen regularly. There are even unwritten agreements and conventions when it comes to PvP in higher classes of W-Space in order to make it as fun as possible for both participating sides. Or you can just roam freely;

- try out Factional warfare. Sure, there are a lot of warp-stabbed t1 frig alts in plexes, but you can always find decent opponents willing to play. And the best part is, a 10 man cruiser gang in is mostly considered a "blob" in militia chat channels.
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#238 - 2014-06-09 11:37:32 UTC
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
Looks like David Braben and Chris Roberts know how to do that, but hey, these guys already were making top notch videogames when CCP was at school...


Yeah Elite II and III were "brilliant" bugriddled messes that had no functioning combat system that utterly failed to live up to the awesomeness of the original (because Ian Bell was not involved), and Freelancer Online was stillborn.

"Top Notch" indeed

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#239 - 2014-06-09 14:44:31 UTC
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
And I wonder how do they plan to keep paying the bills once they've told to 80% of their subscribers to HTFU or go away, and who was the briliant head who perpretated such approach to EVE's dirty secret: the people who PAY the game are not PLAYING it.

Rather than try and retain the 80% longer by figuring what's wrong with EVE for them, they are attempting to push/lure them into becoming a part of the 20% who haves a long tenure by taking EVE as it happened to become.
What makes you think they'd do something that silly? And what do you base your secret on? I also have to question the notion that they're attempting the kind of strategy you're describing — if anything the last couple of expansions have contained more stuff to do or increased the viability of some of the choices that were already available, to the benefit of pretty much everyone.

If you're going to paint a bleak picture of the future, it kind of helps to at least show that it has some grounding in the current reality.

Quote:
Well, we would do much more than "level our Ravens" if CCP gave us the tools, rather than force us to deal with neverending play sessions which cannot be postponed, prevailing and riskless griefing and outnumbering as the alpha and omega of combat. Looks like David Braben and Chris Roberts know how to do that, but hey, these guys already were making top notch videogames when CCP was at school...

But that's just it: they have given us tools to deal with all of that — more so in the last year or two than (almost) ever before. As for those other guys, yes, they made a decent game or two 20–30 years ago. But they haven't particularly lived up to their own legacy ever since. They also made games that are vastly different from what EVE offers and are still sticking to that different genre, so what they know has little to no bearing on what CCP knows to do well. So why not mention the likes of Will Wright, John Carmac, or Tim Sweeny, who have actually produced something in recent history (and whose products are all vastly more popular)?

I'm not entirely sure that Braben and Roberts are what CCP should strive to emulate, game-wise or production-wise.
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#240 - 2014-06-09 18:06:12 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
(Well reasoned post with nice suggestions to engage into the "core" game)


Dude, you don't need to convince me, I am lost to PvP in EVE. Some people don't enjoy exploding player ships.Take my word for it, OK?

It's not about me or my issues with EVE.

It's that most people pay CCP to play a game that it's not the "core" of EVE, but the outskirts of it. And CCP is adressing that by pushing/luring those people out of the outskirts, hoping they will move towards the core rather than leave the game. Despite the evidence that those people will rather quit than be forced into another way of playing the game.

Latest case (just an instance): POCOs in empire space. People I knew personally left the game because they didn't wanted to pay taxes to other players, and the only way to avoid that was PvP, which they didn't wanted. By playing EVE their way, they painted a bullseye on themselves and were driven out of the game by CCP through a feature in which they weren't asked nor listened to.

That's what happens when you play the outskirts of EVE: commitment is low and anything can kill it. Now, maybe those people should had been given the abbility to bribe some NPC to build a NPC C.O. in their favorite planet, and anyone willing to change that should ahve been forced to engage in NPC interaction too... rather than just force PvErs to PvP, also force PvPrs to PvE. Is this stupid? Or just a way to even the odds for the 80% against the 20%?

Another instance: think about how wardecs work. Through wardecs, PvPrs can easily and risklessly force their playstyle on PvErs at any time. But they never risk being forced to PvE when PvErs fight back. The very idea looks silly, right? Yet this is how every year, thousands of players are driven out of the game.

The point is that rather than change the players, CCP should change the game. It can be done without betraying the spirit of EVE nor turning it into what it is not.

Rather than push the 80% harder than ever, CCP would be smart to start taking them seriously. Why would someone pay to mine, run missions, perform PI or build stuff in hisec? Why should that force those players into terrible content and negate them any chance to generate content? Why should they be subject to being forced to play in a different way by people who don't expose themselves to being forced too? How can PvE content become as good as PvP content?

CCP is doing what they think it's right, and they're fighting for their life so they will not change course easily. But they also are wrong, in my opinion. What kills you is not a deficit of what goes right, but an excess of what goes wrong.

80% of EVE players are not creating content. CCP can say, "the tools to create content exist, but the players are wrong", or can say "the tools that exist are only a fraction of all possible tools, and they are wrong for 80% of our customers so let's expand them".

Q: Should we be worried? A: Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.