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[Crius] Industry Landscape feedback

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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#81 - 2014-06-13 09:13:18 UTC
Sigras wrote:
So I just tried to research a crystalline carbonide armor plate blueprint to level 1 ME...

The quote said just under a minute, but when I put the job in, it went in for just over 6 hours and one minute...

However after a minute or so went by, the job was able to be delivered. Must just be a display bug.


Correct, just a UI issue.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Sales Alt negrodamus
SalesAltCorp
#82 - 2014-06-13 09:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sales Alt negrodamus
Will we be getting rig teams? This is an issue near and dear to my heart.

I know greyscale saw it I just didn't see a comment.

Also, currently I am getting 0% success chance of capital trimark inventions on sisi right now.

Blowing away my pos, while understandable, makes it hard to test these things without some spinup time.
CCP Paradox
#83 - 2014-06-13 10:33:30 UTC
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:
Will we be getting rig teams? This is an issue near and dear to my heart.

I know greyscale saw it I just didn't see a comment.

Also, currently I am getting 0% success chance of capital trimark inventions on sisi right now.

Blowing away my pos, while understandable, makes it hard to test these things without some spinup time.


Yes, Rig teams will come into play. There was an issue with the specialization selector for a few specializations, so they were not getting picked for the teams. It should be resolved for next week, and I will make sure to expire and relocate several team auctions so that people can use them.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician

Sales Alt negrodamus
SalesAltCorp
#84 - 2014-06-13 17:24:11 UTC
\o/

For some reason it has come to pass that rigs are what i do when it comes to eve industry. I am very curious to see how hard I will have to fight for rig teams.

I just want to echo what everyone is saying about the UI: looks good, but badly needs better optimization / sorting / filtering. I have one hangar fillled up already and am working on another, with just blueprint copies.

Right now on TQ, for example, I simply can't use containers in a CHA. So if it were possible to do that (danger, pos code warning) and mix that into what other devs are saying about how you can use containers in the industry interface, it would help a lot.

ALSO I HIT POST, WHY DOES IT EAT MY POST AND TURN IT INTO A HALF-FORGOTTEN DRAFT.

EVE FORUMS YOU ARE AS BUGGY AS EVE INDUSTRY I SWEAR TO GOD.
Sigras
Conglomo
#85 - 2014-06-13 19:04:11 UTC
I am not able to find any teams anymore... whether active or unassigned, I can go to world, and all types with no filter and both lists say no teams found ... what gives?
Circumstantial Evidence
#86 - 2014-06-13 19:14:44 UTC
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:
ALSO I HIT POST, WHY DOES IT EAT MY POST AND TURN IT INTO A HALF-FORGOTTEN DRAFT.
I try to write first in notepad and then copy/paste for that reason... click "preview" frequently. It seems if you take longer than 5 minutes to write something, the cookie or token keeping track of your posting attempt, decides you are no longer worthy.
Yuki Kasumi
Some names are just stupid
#87 - 2014-06-13 19:17:50 UTC
With the new industry updates, will there be any change to the maximum number of bpcs that can be made at once? If not, what is the reason behind the max 20 bpcs per job limit? Is there any reason why you should not be able to make a lot of bpos with few runs as opposed to a few bpos with many runs? You are in any case limited by the 30days per job...
Sigras
Conglomo
#88 - 2014-06-14 06:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigras
Also I just invented a BPC with no decryptors and a 0/0 input BPC and it came out ME 2% PE 4% I thought everything was being rebalanced so that it was ME 0 PE 0 base with decryptors giving you a bonus?

Additionally I found that the materials required to build were equivalent to -4.5 ME of the old system...

Lastly, I found that the RAM tech tools have not yet been changed over yet... :(
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#89 - 2014-06-14 12:52:13 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Also I just invented a BPC with no decryptors and a 0/0 input BPC and it came out ME 2% PE 4% I thought everything was being rebalanced so that it was ME 0 PE 0 base with decryptors giving you a bonus?

Additionally I found that the materials required to build were equivalent to -4.5 ME of the old system...

Lastly, I found that the RAM tech tools have not yet been changed over yet... :(



You thought wrong -4/-4 is now 2/4

That is to account for the decryptors that made -6 ME, which will be converted to ME0
Sienna Toth
Pulsar Phisics Shipyards
#90 - 2014-06-14 16:04:46 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Rust Connor wrote:
Quick look today. Amazing! A few comments

1) skill
Just checked that Material Efficiency skill didnt change. Any plan for it?

2) install cost
Really like the cost decreasing by number of runs. You should keep that way, without limit.

3) material cost
Love the change to apply ME on total batch. That change alone is amazing. Stimulate long runs and Makes reserch useful even to small rigs. Wish i had a t2 bpo to check if you get a "free hull" on long runs....

1) Yes, there's a plan, it's not done yet
2) It becomes silly for certain items, we're probably going to use 1) to cap it some how
3) No free hulls!

Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


No tax at starbases. Nothing stops you spamming moons with towers except for other players :)



I was under the impression that we would have the ability to set the job install tax rate at a POS. Did that not make it in, or was the idea scrapped?

I was really looking forward to bottom up income from industry members.


My understanding is that you can only install corp jobs in a starbase, so you're just taxing yourself, which didn't seem worth the development time.


I'll restate how array taxes work for those that don't know or didn't happen to read my post in the F&I thread.

With the removal of remote research, the interface became completely useless. So it was removed. In order to use a POS lab or mfg array, one requires the following roles: Factory Manager, Rent Factory/Research Slot, Hanger Access (Other), and access to at least one corp wallet division.

WARNING! These roles allow anyone with them to completely clean out everything in every in-space hanger and that wallet, with the exception of audit log containers. So if you give someone hanger other access to a hanger division that someone is using to build a titan, they can deliver the titan job and steal it once it is complete.

Because POS arrays only have corp hanger divisions, in order to use them you have to put your stuff in the corp hanger. This makes all jobs installed at the array a corp job, not a personal one. And as a Factory Manager, you are renting on your corp's behalf, not on your own. Thus the fees/taxes are taken out of your currently active corp wallet division. Those fees are then deposited directly into the corp master wallet.

tl:dr; POS roles are at best half-assed, and in cases like this completely broken. WTB POS roles revamp.

There are a couple ways I can think of to fix it. But that is beyond the scope of this thread.



I have to say that the gentlemen is ON-TARGET here. If you want to fix industry fix the relationships between corporate roles and the towers. It's always been a problem area.
Sienna Toth
Pulsar Phisics Shipyards
#91 - 2014-06-14 16:16:53 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
[quote=Rust Connor]Quick look today. Amazing! A few comments

My understanding is that you can only install corp jobs in a starbase, so you're just taxing yourself, which didn't seem worth the development time.



Greyscale: You're correct that we are taxing ourselves, but the tax has a purpose. InGame we have to pay fuel costs. Members of a corp object to paying for features they don't use....Mission Runners and miners don't like to pay for fuel costs unless its in low/null sec or in a wormhole. The 'CURRENT' game allows the assignment of job install costs and cost per hour. Some CEO's/POS Managers will factor the fuel cost per CPU and POWER on the tower and assign charges to the POS module slots based of the amount of fuel consumed. This allows a corp the ability to charge members that use the facilities.

How will I be able to do that when we transition to Crius?
Qoi
Exert Force
#92 - 2014-06-15 18:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Qoi
Sienna Toth wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
[quote=Rust Connor]Quick look today. Amazing! A few comments

My understanding is that you can only install corp jobs in a starbase, so you're just taxing yourself, which didn't seem worth the development time.



Greyscale: You're correct that we are taxing ourselves, but the tax has a purpose. InGame we have to pay fuel costs. Members of a corp object to paying for features they don't use....Mission Runners and miners don't like to pay for fuel costs unless its in low/null sec or in a wormhole. The 'CURRENT' game allows the assignment of job install costs and cost per hour. Some CEO's/POS Managers will factor the fuel cost per CPU and POWER on the tower and assign charges to the POS module slots based of the amount of fuel consumed. This allows a corp the ability to charge members that use the facilities.

How will I be able to do that when we transition to Crius?


Since the job install costs no longer scale linearly with time or are independent of blueprint, there is no way you could implement a similar system after Crius anyway. You can request the industry jobs from the API instead and then do proper accounting, it is not that hard to set up with some programming experience.

http://eve-industry.org

Sigras
Conglomo
#93 - 2014-06-15 22:59:43 UTC
Ok, more issues im noticing as I use this system.

I have an ME 10% crystalline carbonide armor plate BPO, and when I show info on it, I see it should take 44 crystalline carbonide and 11 sylramic fibers. This is the same as an ME 0 BPO on TQ, so I thought that the effect of my research was just not being displayed on this screen, but then I looked at an ME 0 BPO and found that it takes 48 crystalline carbonide and 12 symramic fibers...

To add to this confusion, I then attempted to manufacture something with my ME 10% BPO and I found the materials quoted as 30 crystalline carbonide and 8 sylramic fibers.

Is there any reason for this? It seems as though there are some variables being hidden that are messing with the numbers
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#94 - 2014-06-16 01:34:18 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Ok, more issues im noticing as I use this system.

I have an ME 10% crystalline carbonide armor plate BPO, and when I show info on it, I see it should take 44 crystalline carbonide and 11 sylramic fibers. This is the same as an ME 0 BPO on TQ, so I thought that the effect of my research was just not being displayed on this screen, but then I looked at an ME 0 BPO and found that it takes 48 crystalline carbonide and 12 symramic fibers...

To add to this confusion, I then attempted to manufacture something with my ME 10% BPO and I found the materials quoted as 30 crystalline carbonide and 8 sylramic fibers.

Is there any reason for this? It seems as though there are some variables being hidden that are messing with the numbers



He has said like 10000000000 times show info is screwed, use the "Use blueprint" function and see what it says in that window
DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-06-16 01:47:19 UTC
Whilst we are getting an industry overhaul, would getting stackable blueprint copies (by me/te) be possible?

This would reduce clutter in any industrialists hanger, and make sorting through the torrents of blueprints a much less daunting task.
Sigras
Conglomo
#96 - 2014-06-16 06:03:30 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Ok, more issues im noticing as I use this system.

I have an ME 10% crystalline carbonide armor plate BPO, and when I show info on it, I see it should take 44 crystalline carbonide and 11 sylramic fibers. This is the same as an ME 0 BPO on TQ, so I thought that the effect of my research was just not being displayed on this screen, but then I looked at an ME 0 BPO and found that it takes 48 crystalline carbonide and 12 symramic fibers...

To add to this confusion, I then attempted to manufacture something with my ME 10% BPO and I found the materials quoted as 30 crystalline carbonide and 8 sylramic fibers.

Is there any reason for this? It seems as though there are some variables being hidden that are messing with the numbers

He has said like 10000000000 times show info is screwed, use the "Use blueprint" function and see what it says in that window

then it looks like the POS discount is WAY out of whack

Im using a component assembly array (supposed to give a 2% discount) and each run costs 7.425 sylramic fibers and 29.7 crystalline carbonide

that same BPO in a station costs me 9.9 sylramic fibers and 39.6 crystalline carbonide per run

thats a 25% discount not 2%

additionally I was also able to start an invention job without selecting an outcome .... im excited to see what comes out.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#97 - 2014-06-16 11:00:52 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Also I just invented a BPC with no decryptors and a 0/0 input BPC and it came out ME 2% PE 4% I thought everything was being rebalanced so that it was ME 0 PE 0 base with decryptors giving you a bonus?

Additionally I found that the materials required to build were equivalent to -4.5 ME of the old system...

Lastly, I found that the RAM tech tools have not yet been changed over yet... :(


What changes were you expecting to see in RAMs?

Sienna Toth wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
[quote=Rust Connor]Quick look today. Amazing! A few comments

My understanding is that you can only install corp jobs in a starbase, so you're just taxing yourself, which didn't seem worth the development time.



Greyscale: You're correct that we are taxing ourselves, but the tax has a purpose. InGame we have to pay fuel costs. Members of a corp object to paying for features they don't use....Mission Runners and miners don't like to pay for fuel costs unless its in low/null sec or in a wormhole. The 'CURRENT' game allows the assignment of job install costs and cost per hour. Some CEO's/POS Managers will factor the fuel cost per CPU and POWER on the tower and assign charges to the POS module slots based of the amount of fuel consumed. This allows a corp the ability to charge members that use the facilities.

How will I be able to do that when we transition to Crius?


There's some discussion of this in the Starbase feedback thread, probably better to roll this sort of stuff over into there :)
Galen Achu
Bellerophon Expedition
#98 - 2014-06-16 11:25:16 UTC
DooDoo Gum wrote:
Whilst we are getting an industry overhaul, would getting stackable blueprint copies (by me/te) be possible?

This would reduce clutter in any industrialists hanger, and make sorting through the torrents of blueprints a much less daunting task.


Interesting idea. This could make the number of runs on a blueprint obsolete if at the same time it would be possible to start a job with multiple (identical) blueprints as imput.
Circumstantial Evidence
#99 - 2014-06-16 16:18:12 UTC
DooDoo Gum wrote:
Whilst we are getting an industry overhaul, would getting stackable blueprint copies (by me/te) be possible?

This would reduce clutter in any industrialists hanger, and make sorting through the torrents of blueprints a much less daunting task.
The developers have not touched this before, because each BPC has a unique ID. I'd like to see some kind of virtual container be created automatically on a stack attempt, so that BPC's with identical stats can *look* like they are stacking. Once a BPC's stats have changed through use, it would not fit back onto the same "stack."
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#100 - 2014-06-16 17:27:32 UTC
Sienna Toth wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
[quote=Rust Connor]Quick look today. Amazing! A few comments

My understanding is that you can only install corp jobs in a starbase, so you're just taxing yourself, which didn't seem worth the development time.



Greyscale: You're correct that we are taxing ourselves, but the tax has a purpose. InGame we have to pay fuel costs. Members of a corp object to paying for features they don't use....Mission Runners and miners don't like to pay for fuel costs unless its in low/null sec or in a wormhole. The 'CURRENT' game allows the assignment of job install costs and cost per hour. Some CEO's/POS Managers will factor the fuel cost per CPU and POWER on the tower and assign charges to the POS module slots based of the amount of fuel consumed. This allows a corp the ability to charge members that use the facilities.

How will I be able to do that when we transition to Crius?


Why does this keep coming up? The taxes you charge do NOT come out of players' wallets. They come out of the corp wallet to which that player has been given access. The player that uses the array is not paying for it, unless he/she is donating to the corp wallet. In which case, just have them donate. Or you can charge a nominal membership fee per month. Its the exact same effect without all the extra effort.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for being able to set array fees. But until players can pay directly from their own wallet or select from a corp wallet like they can for market transactions, then array taxation does not work.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY