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[Crius] Research feedback

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Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2014-06-13 14:00:32 UTC
I would much rather see it in this state than not see it until 2 weeks out from the patch.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#122 - 2014-06-13 14:04:28 UTC
Releasing a build in this state is much better than releasing a nearly finished product that everyone immediately says is critically flawed, early feedback is invaluable.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#123 - 2014-06-13 14:40:10 UTC
Noted.

Meanwhile, back on the topic of Research...
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2014-06-13 16:08:44 UTC
Meanwhile, back on the topic of Research...
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#125 - 2014-06-13 16:09:50 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
...expressing your professional judgements as to the likely state of our codebase in five weeks' time.


CCP Greyscale has a sneaky, yet powerful, pimp hand.

OT: I'm just going to wait until Crius rolls out and then see what the plans for decryptors are since it doesn't seem like they're going to make it into this build (no problem, a brief delay in aligning game mechanics isn't a big deal to me). Given the currently strong connection between invention and decryptors in the current game design, I'm not sure I can really accurately assess how well the changes for invention work without knowing what the decryptors are going to end up doing.

Keep up the good work, unreasonable expectations be damned.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#126 - 2014-06-13 16:12:12 UTC
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
...expressing your professional judgements as to the likely state of our codebase in five weeks' time.


CCP Greyscale has a sneaky, yet powerful, pimp hand.

OT: I'm just going to wait until Crius rolls out and then see what the plans for decryptors are since it doesn't seem like they're going to make it into this build (no problem, a brief delay in aligning game mechanics isn't a big deal to me). Given the currently strong connection between invention and decryptors in the current game design, I'm not sure I can really accurately assess how well the changes for invention work without knowing what the decryptors are going to end up doing.

Keep up the good work, unreasonable expectations be damned.


Decryptors are being adjusted so the TE numbers are doubled in line with the new system, but otherwise our current plan is to leave them alone while we work on a more comprehensive post-Crius invention revamp. If it turns out that we actually *need* to do some balancing right now, we will do so, but we're hoping that they can just be a bit wacky for a few months so we don't need to do a bunch of work that then gets thrown away.
Uncle Funklestien
Order of the Golden Dawn
#127 - 2014-06-13 16:14:33 UTC
Question in regards to ME/TE research times I know ( as of last I played on SiSi yesterday at least ) that they were still fudged. However, what numbers ARE you trying for CCP Greyscale? Could you give us the maths that you are wanting to use ( or are they posted elsewhere and I have missed it? )

At least that way we can make sure there aren't any obvious bugs when they do get fixed on SiSi.
Qoi
Exert Force
#128 - 2014-06-13 16:24:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Qoi
Uncle Funklestien wrote:
Question in regards to ME/TE research times I know ( as of last I played on SiSi yesterday at least ) that they were still fudged. However, what numbers ARE you trying for CCP Greyscale? Could you give us the maths that you are wanting to use ( or are they posted elsewhere and I have missed it? )

At least that way we can make sure there aren't any obvious bugs when they do get fixed on SiSi.


These numbers were published in a devblog and in the Blueprints adjustment thread, you can check them on my website at http://bp.kiwi.frubar.net/calc/ (Just set the mode to "Manufacturing" and play with the ME/TE levels for different Blueprints.)

(These are not final but the Greyscale draft 4 CSV)

http://eve-industry.org
Sales Alt negrodamus
Sanctuary of Shadows
#129 - 2014-06-13 17:29:32 UTC
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:
invention doesn't seem to be working at all.

i'm trying to do some capital t2 trimarks as a test to see what decryptors do, however currently I am getting a 0% invention chance regardless of what decryptor (or lack thereof) I am using due to a -100% invention success chance bonus from the blueprint copy. That was freshly made on sisi.



Can I get some visibility on this?
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#130 - 2014-06-13 17:31:47 UTC
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:
invention doesn't seem to be working at all.

i'm trying to do some capital t2 trimarks as a test to see what decryptors do, however currently I am getting a 0% invention chance regardless of what decryptor (or lack thereof) I am using due to a -100% invention success chance bonus from the blueprint copy. That was freshly made on sisi.



Can I get some visibility on this?


If it's also not showing the T2 rig as a product on the right, it's a general issue with a range of items that should be fixed ASAP.
Scout Vyvorant
Doomheim
#131 - 2014-06-13 20:15:16 UTC
I've tryed, again, to invent some T2 Bpc.

On live, I consume a max run BPC to create, in the case of modules, a 10-12 run T2 BPC.

On the test server I consume a single run of the BPC to create a 1 run T2 BPC, however, I use the same amount of datacores. Is this intented? Wont this increase massively the cost of datacores and consequentially the cost of T2 mods? Have I missed some DEV explaination to this?

P.s. I'm quite aware this wont matter if you are inventing ships or anything else that used single runs BPC.

Thanks in advance.
Maratega
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2014-06-14 01:39:53 UTC
Industry queue is planned in the future?
Example an invention job is 8 hour. Because i check in every 24 hour, i can set up 3 invention job , for just one slot with the queue system, so the character dont go idle after 8 hour.

This is something we can expect from the future development?
Alain Kinsella
#133 - 2014-06-14 05:48:44 UTC
Started with a few basic previews, then kicked off two research jobs. I glanced through the topic, but did not see anything specific about the times being adjusted correctly for skills. Perhaps I missed it?

Examples below. In Masalle's X-Sense Factory, Research V showing in the popup as a time reducer.

250 mm Light Artillary: 14% TE, 11:52:30 estimated, 16:00:00 actual job.
EMP S: 18% TE, 22:26:15 estimated, 1:05:00:00 IIRC for actual job.

Though I find the base times pleasing on their own (since I like to self-produce what I use most - and the main blockers were the HS slots), I do have Research V and it would be nice to have those reductions applied. Cool

On the subject of remote jobs, what is the cost scaling for that? From Masalle, I quoted the same 250mm job for a blueprint I had in Yuzier. Instead of 2K ISK it jumped dramatically to 3Mil. Shocked

Also, what's this "Not input items required," the English minor in me is getting distracted seeing that. Big smile

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).
Tragot Gomndor
Three Sword Inc
#134 - 2014-06-14 12:34:23 UTC
still mismatch errors happening... sisi is dead... nothing to test here...

NONONONONONO TO CAPS IN HIGHSEC NO
Teddyboom
NRDS Anonyme
We're all going to die.
#135 - 2014-06-15 15:45:11 UTC
Quote:
In the summer release, all base build costs will be increased by 11%. ME will then reduce build costs by 10% of that new base value, which brings us back to where we started. The rest of this blog is working from that new, higher base.


What about blueprints who exist only in a bpc version ? (booster, ancilary, microjump etc...)

is it intended that the price of theses item is increases and there is nothing we can do about it ?
Qoi
Exert Force
#136 - 2014-06-15 17:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Qoi
Teddyboom wrote:
Quote:
In the summer release, all base build costs will be increased by 11%. ME will then reduce build costs by 10% of that new base value, which brings us back to where we started. The rest of this blog is working from that new, higher base.


What about blueprints who exist only in a bpc version ? (booster, ancilary, microjump etc...)

is it intended that the price of theses item is increases and there is nothing we can do about it ?

The 11% increase is mostly compensated by the removal of waste. For unresearched Blueprints this is only an effective 1% material increase, which is probably negligible compared to what these massive industry changes will do to the market.

http://eve-industry.org
Alexander Lion
Suicidal Actions
#137 - 2014-06-16 12:16:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander Lion
I have a Question.

First i was like:

Why do i have to pay 85 Bil to research a Providence BPO from Me 0 to Me10 at own POS? I Dont get this. there are no System Costs, the whole bar is dark.

I know there is no Research Station in the System i am in, but wtf 85 Bil on my own POS?
I hope this is gonna be redone because how shall pay this?

If i want to use my POS i have now on TQ to research my BPOs i have to pay 85 Bil + the pos fuel + the risk of losing the BPO when the POS gets destroyed. are you sure you want this to become real?


After a few deep breaths:


Why does the new research window e.g. ME research suggest all the Stations in the region, instead of only showing the once with a research department? I know i can hide othe other ones.


But anyway, to research a BPO of a Provi in a System with about 1/5th of the cost bar is still 7 bil in total.
Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#138 - 2014-06-16 14:29:47 UTC
Scout Vyvorant wrote:
I've tryed, again, to invent some T2 Bpc.

On live, I consume a max run BPC to create, in the case of modules, a 10-12 run T2 BPC.

On the test server I consume a single run of the BPC to create a 1 run T2 BPC, however, I use the same amount of datacores. Is this intented? Wont this increase massively the cost of datacores and consequentially the cost of T2 mods? Have I missed some DEV explaination to this?

P.s. I'm quite aware this wont matter if you are inventing ships or anything else that used single runs BPC.

Thanks in advance.


Can someone answer this thanks.I have the same issue.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#139 - 2014-06-16 14:45:38 UTC
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:
Scout Vyvorant wrote:
I've tryed, again, to invent some T2 Bpc.

On live, I consume a max run BPC to create, in the case of modules, a 10-12 run T2 BPC.

On the test server I consume a single run of the BPC to create a 1 run T2 BPC, however, I use the same amount of datacores. Is this intented? Wont this increase massively the cost of datacores and consequentially the cost of T2 mods? Have I missed some DEV explaination to this?

P.s. I'm quite aware this wont matter if you are inventing ships or anything else that used single runs BPC.

Thanks in advance.


Can someone answer this thanks.I have the same issue.


The output runs being off is a known issue I believe, should be fixed "soonish".
Lotus Ambrosia
Mad Men Inc
#140 - 2014-06-16 15:20:11 UTC
Are you still intending to remove the option of POS Reserching BPO that are in station?