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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Arec Bardwin
#1101 - 2014-06-09 10:31:56 UTC
It would be nice if someone with better english skils than me could write up a reddit post, laying out the major issues and pointing to this thread. The only way CCP will ever fix this is a lot of attention.
cpu939
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1102 - 2014-06-09 13:44:54 UTC
Arec Bardwin wrote:
It would be nice if someone with better english skils than me could write up a reddit post, laying out the major issues and pointing to this thread. The only way CCP will ever fix this is a lot of attention.



Lets be honest here they have done this for the new players, while doing things for new players is good, don't forget the long time customers.

CCP has with a lot of stuff are taken their long time Customers for granted.

we know there is a goal for retention on for new players but at the cost of older players is this really the way you want to go CCP?

we have ask for 2 options

1 a turn off/on option
2 more slider bar options

why ccp can't you give us one of these options and put this to bed?
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#1103 - 2014-06-09 14:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaijin Lanis
Rommiee wrote:
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
First, please don't misinterpret the thread being unstickied. This is just normal forum housekeeping. We publish a lot of news, announcements and dev blogs. We can't keep their associated threads stickied for very long or in the end the whole point of a sticky is defeated. It really doesn't signal anything in itself about the importance of the ongoing work.



That’s a bit weird, just a quick scan through some of the stickied posts, show a number of them which are older than this thread, some significantly so:


Dev Blog: Team Up: Industry Work Teams
Dev blog: Researching, the Future
Dev blog: Fortune Favors the Bold
Dev blog: The Price of Change
Dev Blog: Delivering The Industry New Eden Deserves!
Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!



So if you are going to make up some excuse for un-stickying this one (to detract from the fact that you want to hide it), at least make is plausible.


To be perfectly and completely fair, those threads are very, very active and about yet to be implemented features, that if handled poorly, will result in a complete and total economic crash. Which would result in significantly more canceled subscriptions than breaking the ability to interact with the game by any means other than the overview window.

Otherwise, yea, I thought the same thing. But its not like they're suddenly doing eight more "spotlight" threads and a "this week in EVE."

cpu939 wrote:

we have ask for 2 options

1 a turn off/on option
2 more slider bar options

why ccp can't you give us one of these options and put this to bed?
If the manner in which they handled the new warp tunnel effect is any indication, its because they straight deleted the old system.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.
cpu939
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1104 - 2014-06-09 17:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: cpu939
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
Rommiee wrote:
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
First, please don't misinterpret the thread being unstickied. This is just normal forum housekeeping. We publish a lot of news, announcements and dev blogs. We can't keep their associated threads stickied for very long or in the end the whole point of a sticky is defeated. It really doesn't signal anything in itself about the importance of the ongoing work.



That’s a bit weird, just a quick scan through some of the stickied posts, show a number of them which are older than this thread, some significantly so:


Dev Blog: Team Up: Industry Work Teams
Dev blog: Researching, the Future
Dev blog: Fortune Favors the Bold
Dev blog: The Price of Change
Dev Blog: Delivering The Industry New Eden Deserves!
Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!



So if you are going to make up some excuse for un-stickying this one (to detract from the fact that you want to hide it), at least make is plausible.


To be perfectly and completely fair, those threads are very, very active and about yet to be implemented features, that if handled poorly, will result in a complete and total economic crash. Which would result in significantly more canceled subscriptions than breaking the ability to interact with the game by any means other than the overview window.

Otherwise, yea, I thought the same thing. But its not like they're suddenly doing eight more "spotlight" threads and a "this week in EVE."

cpu939 wrote:

we have ask for 2 options

1 a turn off/on option
2 more slider bar options

why ccp can't you give us one of these options and put this to bed?
If the manner in which they handled the new warp tunnel effect is any indication, its because they straight deleted the old system.


the system is ok for new players and as devs said we can't know everything about the game. -But i still don't need the sasme information on screen twice

give us the slider option so we can turn of redundant information i.e. hover over a courier contract and the tool tip tells you its a courier contract where it's located and where it is going to that information is already on the screen or what about the item tool tip that tells it, it is that item and the number of then in that group?
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1105 - 2014-06-09 20:24:44 UTC
its over. ccp has unsticked this thread and gave some lame reason why they are not responding. either get use to the tool tips or unsub. i have decided not to resub. this is total bullshit. thanks ccp for letting me leave my PC and enjoy the sunny beaches of Florida.
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#1106 - 2014-06-09 22:26:10 UTC
I know right! I've been spending so much time outside its silly. I even have a pool! I don't even know where the **** that came from!

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1107 - 2014-06-10 10:42:28 UTC
As some of you might know, last week was very busy and difficult over here.
We had meetings scheduled to go a bit more formally over your pain points and discuss how to best address them, but due to things that came up they had to be postponed.
Please don't take it as we are not talking a lot about this stuff, because we really are. We have a few ideas how to improve the experience, and have already made some prototypes, and we need to assess if that's something we should go forward with and how it addresses the pain points.

Thanks for your specific examples, they have been useful to us Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#1108 - 2014-06-10 10:59:12 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
As some of you might know, last week was very busy and difficult over here.
We had meetings scheduled to go a bit more formally over your pain points and discuss how to best address them, but due to things that came up they had to be postponed.
Please don't take it as we are not talking a lot about this stuff, because we really are. We have a few ideas how to improve the experience, and have already made some prototypes, and we need to assess if that's something we should go forward with and how it addresses the pain points.

Thanks for your specific examples, they have been useful to us Smile


that's very nice to hear, except for the fact that all this thinking and testing and adressing should be done whit the tooltip thingy on the TEST SERVER;

how about next time i have to pay my subscription i came with the "i\m really busy right now"excuse, will CCP grant me several day of free play time till i find time to pay for the subscription?

and you still avoiding the main answer: will there be an on/off option and if not why???
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1109 - 2014-06-10 11:32:09 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
As some of you might know, last week was very busy and difficult over here.
We had meetings scheduled to go a bit more formally over your pain points and discuss how to best address them, but due to things that came up they had to be postponed.
Please don't take it as we are not talking a lot about this stuff, because we really are. We have a few ideas how to improve the experience, and have already made some prototypes, and we need to assess if that's something we should go forward with and how it addresses the pain points.

Thanks for your specific examples, they have been useful to us Smile


Thanks for the reply....

As long as your prototypes include additional sliders for different types of tooltips, or an off button then we are good :)
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1110 - 2014-06-10 11:43:11 UTC
gascanu wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
As some of you might know, last week was very busy and difficult over here.
We had meetings scheduled to go a bit more formally over your pain points and discuss how to best address them, but due to things that came up they had to be postponed.
Please don't take it as we are not talking a lot about this stuff, because we really are. We have a few ideas how to improve the experience, and have already made some prototypes, and we need to assess if that's something we should go forward with and how it addresses the pain points.

Thanks for your specific examples, they have been useful to us Smile


that's very nice to hear, except for the fact that all this thinking and testing and adressing should be done whit the tooltip thingy on the TEST SERVER;

how about next time i have to pay my subscription i came with the "i\m really busy right now"excuse, will CCP grant me several day of free play time till i find time to pay for the subscription?

and you still avoiding the main answer: will there be an on/off option and if not why???

You have no idea what she is referring to, do you? And if you do, you should be ashamed.

Some modifications will be nice to see. To be honest, the thing that bugs me most is the tooltip that pops up telling me that my "[whatever system] safe" bookmark is, in fact, the "[whatever system] safe" bookmark. Completely pointless.

As for the rest of it, I don't mind most of the new changes although I would definitely like customisable delays. I don't want (or want a long delay) for most tooltips whereas others such as module state readouts for overheat percentages must be instantaneous.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1111 - 2014-06-10 11:56:43 UTC
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
Another thing, it is nice to be able to see exact, instantly updated capacitor, armor, shield, and hull figures. But that information should NOT be in a tooltip. One should be able to have that information permanently on screen, as having to wait for that information to appear is contradictory, at best (read: "Recieve delayed instant updates!"). This also does not mean the HUD should be redesigned by someone who clearly does not play the game. Just given more display options.
You can actually show armor, shield and hull % already. Click the 4 line icon on the lower right side of the HUD and select "display readout"

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Fonac
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1112 - 2014-06-10 11:57:33 UTC
gascanu wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
As some of you might know, last week was very busy and difficult over here.
We had meetings scheduled to go a bit more formally over your pain points and discuss how to best address them, but due to things that came up they had to be postponed.
Please don't take it as we are not talking a lot about this stuff, because we really are. We have a few ideas how to improve the experience, and have already made some prototypes, and we need to assess if that's something we should go forward with and how it addresses the pain points.

Thanks for your specific examples, they have been useful to us Smile


that's very nice to hear, except for the fact that all this thinking and testing and adressing should be done whit the tooltip thingy on the TEST SERVER;

how about next time i have to pay my subscription i came with the "i\m really busy right now"excuse, will CCP grant me several day of free play time till i find time to pay for the subscription?

and you still avoiding the main answer: will there be an on/off option and if not why???



CCP has just laid of 50 employees, friends and colleagues. Im not sure you know this, but if you do.. shame on you.
There's a reason development has halted, i'm sure they'll pick up on it again after they get their bearing again.


To the dev reading this; I like the tooltips, they're awesome. The only issue i have, is that when i want to target a specific target inbetween a group, the box that now comes up, is very unstable, if you hover your mouse down it will turn off, and you'll have to start over.
Not sure this is a detailed explanation but it's the best i can do on the phone .)
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1113 - 2014-06-10 12:04:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Fonac wrote:
To the dev reading this; I like the tooltips, they're awesome. The only issue i have, is that when i want to target a specific target inbetween a group, the box that now comes up, is very unstable, if you hover your mouse down it will turn off, and you'll have to start over.
Not sure this is a detailed explanation but it's the best i can do on the phone .)

Yeah - hard to explain. It would be nice to set a "select priority" layering system for occasions when the screen is busy, preferably based on the currently active overview tab. So if I am in my PvP overview and I click near a ship then I want the ship, not that drone. And if I'm in the Salvage overview I want the wreck.

And I NEVER want my own ship unless there's nothing else there! This seems to have become harder to get right recently.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Arec Bardwin
#1114 - 2014-06-10 15:50:57 UTC
My biggest problem is that the old bracket selection was scrapped and replaced with the new box of death. The new bracket selection is just not useful in any way, to the point that clicking in space is almost futile. I almost feel that I HAVE to go via overview.

This is potentially game breaking btw, in a part of the game that is all about fun and not frustration over a crappy UI

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#1115 - 2014-06-10 15:52:43 UTC
Fonac wrote:
gascanu wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
As some of you might know, last week was very busy and difficult over here.
We had meetings scheduled to go a bit more formally over your pain points and discuss how to best address them, but due to things that came up they had to be postponed.
Please don't take it as we are not talking a lot about this stuff, because we really are. We have a few ideas how to improve the experience, and have already made some prototypes, and we need to assess if that's something we should go forward with and how it addresses the pain points.

Thanks for your specific examples, they have been useful to us Smile


that's very nice to hear, except for the fact that all this thinking and testing and adressing should be done whit the tooltip thingy on the TEST SERVER;

how about next time i have to pay my subscription i came with the "i\m really busy right now"excuse, will CCP grant me several day of free play time till i find time to pay for the subscription?

and you still avoiding the main answer: will there be an on/off option and if not why???



CCP has just laid of 50 employees, friends and colleagues. Im not sure you know this, but if you do.. shame on you.
There's a reason development has halted, i'm sure they'll pick up on it again after they get their bearing again.


To the dev reading this; I like the tooltips, they're awesome. The only issue i have, is that when i want to target a specific target inbetween a group, the box that now comes up, is very unstable, if you hover your mouse down it will turn off, and you'll have to start over.
Not sure this is a detailed explanation but it's the best i can do on the phone .)


Shame on me?
shame on me that this tooltip thing went live incomplete and without testing?
shame on me cose i had to pay to play this last month with a game breaking system that got me nothing than frustration?
what do you think it will happent if they go on like this? more ppl geting fired, that's will happent;
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#1116 - 2014-06-10 23:31:32 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
Another thing, it is nice to be able to see exact, instantly updated capacitor, armor, shield, and hull figures. But that information should NOT be in a tooltip. One should be able to have that information permanently on screen, as having to wait for that information to appear is contradictory, at best (read: "Recieve delayed instant updates!"). This also does not mean the HUD should be redesigned by someone who clearly does not play the game. Just given more display options.
You can actually show armor, shield and hull % already. Click the 4 line icon on the lower right side of the HUD and select "display readout"

"Exact figures" means the hard numbers. Not percentages. Percentages and iconography don't really give an exact feel for how the capacitor/shield charge rates work.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1117 - 2014-06-11 00:02:36 UTC
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
Another thing, it is nice to be able to see exact, instantly updated capacitor, armor, shield, and hull figures. But that information should NOT be in a tooltip. One should be able to have that information permanently on screen, as having to wait for that information to appear is contradictory, at best (read: "Recieve delayed instant updates!"). This also does not mean the HUD should be redesigned by someone who clearly does not play the game. Just given more display options.
You can actually show armor, shield and hull % already. Click the 4 line icon on the lower right side of the HUD and select "display readout"

"Exact figures" means the hard numbers. Not percentages. Percentages and iconography don't really give an exact feel for how the capacitor/shield charge rates work.
Ok. then select the option below, that says something about absolute readout I think.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#1118 - 2014-06-11 01:25:47 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Ok. then select the option below, that says something about absolute readout I think.
I stand partially corrected.

Though the only way to see capacitor figures, exact or percent, is the tooltip.

I've actually had that readout enabled for god know's how long, but hidden under a window.

Who knew?!

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#1119 - 2014-06-11 07:45:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
CCP karkur wrote:
As some of you might know, last week was very busy and difficult over here.
We had meetings scheduled to go a bit more formally over your pain points and discuss how to best address them, but due to things that came up they had to be postponed.
Please don't take it as we are not talking a lot about this stuff, because we really are. We have a few ideas how to improve the experience, and have already made some prototypes, and we need to assess if that's something we should go forward with and how it addresses the pain points.

Thanks for your specific examples, they have been useful to us Smile
Yes last week wasn't the best and we all sympathise and wish those that left all the best for the future.

Putting that aside, can you answer a simple question.

Please can you tell us, why you are so against giving us an off option?

You seem now to go out your way to avoid posts with this request in them. Although me and almost everyone else here, has a hard time understanding what's so wrong with it. We are not asking for the world, we like that you are doing things for new pilots. But please consider the old ones and allow us to turn them off.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Wilhelm Ormand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1120 - 2014-06-11 08:43:37 UTC
To the people who seem to be disliking the new tooltips: try setting the delay to none. This might seem counterintuitive, but without delay the information is almost instant (except for the fade in). This removed the annoyance for me and now they're actually really usefull because they give me information without having to open an info/contract/fleet window.