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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1081 - 2014-06-05 13:49:57 UTC
Jimmy Prophet wrote:
Also as you mentioned before CCP Karkur that is was being looked into could we please have a update on if things are progressing forwards or are they just being left for the time being......


I suspect that it will be a damn sight longer than “the time being”. Read forever.

They have now moved on to breaking the next perfectly functioning system.
Panterata
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1082 - 2014-06-05 20:11:58 UTC
Guys just keep the thread alive and posting or these issue will die and they will win!
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
#1083 - 2014-06-06 09:41:12 UTC
I nearly gave up.

It is going on me nerves massivly esp. the fact that the *=(&$ Tooltips not just go off when u move your mouse...
Managing something in any hangar / cargo is a pain with those non informativ boxes ^^ they always block 2-3 other things and not even dissapear instantly when mouse moves... predictive mousemovement ? predict my..... ###


Sorry playing this game nowadays just makes me aggressive.. deffo no fun anymore.

and this is the point where it stops.

ahh and btw.... check this out:



http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf


no comment

about 16 days left on accounts...
and bored
Ibuyyou Kitty
#1084 - 2014-06-06 14:01:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ibuyyou Kitty
Ibuyyou Kitty wrote:
Please listen CCP. I have many accounts. I PLEX and I pay-to-play. Please, give me an off switch. I can not take much more of these pop-ups while running lots of accounts mining ops, pve, pvp etc etc.

Do you CCP folks actually play the same game we are playing? How do you not understand the issues these pop-ups are causing?


When you are constantly clicking and dragging the mouse (thousands and thousands of clicks per hour) you get the idea. It is game breaking for a large majority of us players.

At the very least please adjust the pop ups so that as soon as you move the mouse the pop-ups disappear instead of disappearing once your mouse leaves the "grid area". The new tool tips slider does nothing to solve the issue.

My accounts are due for extension in 45-60 days. I have been playing a lot less and I will be un-subbing all accounts if this SMALL issue of tool tip pop ups is not addressed in a timely manner.



My frustration is like the US markets...at all time highs.

Eve Online *the game* is not a webpage so why have webpage like pop-ups? Did the coders that coded these Eve Forums code the in game tool-tips? They look identical.
Arec Bardwin
#1085 - 2014-06-06 20:55:06 UTC
Davina Sienar wrote:

about 16 days left on accounts...
and bored
Can I have your stuff tooltips?
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#1086 - 2014-06-06 21:48:49 UTC
...and the thread is no longer sticked. This certainly bodes well for correcting the problems introduced by the half-assed implementation of a new tooltip system.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.
Arec Bardwin
#1087 - 2014-06-06 22:23:06 UTC
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
...and the thread is no longer sticked. This certainly bodes well for correcting the problems introduced by the half-assed implementation of a new tooltip system.
Yup. Looks like this will be ignored and buried.
Kenneth Endashi
Kor-Azor Slave Holdings
#1088 - 2014-06-06 23:16:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Endashi
They unstickied the post. That's cool.
CCP Delegate Zero
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1089 - 2014-06-07 01:55:59 UTC
*bump*

I'm just dropping in to the thread to say a couple of things.

First, please don't misinterpret the thread being unstickied. This is just normal forum housekeeping. We publish a lot of news, announcements and dev blogs. We can't keep their associated threads stickied for very long or in the end the whole point of a sticky is defeated. It really doesn't signal anything in itself about the importance of the ongoing work.

Second, regarding that last sentence, we do still regard the subject matter of this thread as ongoing work. We are still working on it and we are still reading this thread, other feedback, and working on the options. It's clear some of you don't agree with us about some of the issues. We acknowledge that and we have taken onboard some valuable points.

I'm not going to say anymore at this point and I'm not going to get into a back and forth. I think the main points have been aired and are known to all who have been keeping up with the thread. By all means keep contributing. I think it would be useful to tone down some of the hyperbole and acridity of the commentary but at the end of the day that is up to you guys.

Have a good weekend.

CCP Delegate Zero | Content Designer - Writer | @CCPDelegateZero
Mag's
Azn Empire
#1090 - 2014-06-07 09:20:12 UTC
I asked a simple question, that didn't require back and forth. Could a Dev answer please.

Why are you so against giving us an off option?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#1091 - 2014-06-07 09:23:25 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
*bump*

I'm just dropping in to the thread to say a couple of things.

First, please don't misinterpret the thread being unstickied. This is just normal forum housekeeping. We publish a lot of news, announcements and dev blogs. We can't keep their associated threads stickied for very long or in the end the whole point of a sticky is defeated. It really doesn't signal anything in itself about the importance of the ongoing work.

Second, regarding that last sentence, we do still regard the subject matter of this thread as ongoing work. We are still working on it and we are still reading this thread, other feedback, and working on the options. It's clear some of you don't agree with us about some of the issues. We acknowledge that and we have taken onboard some valuable points.

I'm not going to say anymore at this point and I'm not going to get into a back and forth. I think the main points have been aired and are known to all who have been keeping up with the thread. By all means keep contributing. I think it would be useful to tone down some of the hyperbole and acridity of the commentary but at the end of the day that is up to you guys.

Have a good weekend.


it this post some sort of joke?
or are you telling us that you are going to go with "the positive feedback" and just ignore your player base again?
i understand there was allot of work put into this tooltip thing, but that dosen't change that it's a game breaker thing for most of us;
the walking in station was the same, the loot spew was the same, it took CCP 1 year or so to accept it and remove it, why can't you guys learn from your mistakes???! you are gaining nothing really from keeping it, you only lose accounts, but instead of just giving us a simple on/off switch( while you are working and improving the thing ofc) you choose to ignore your player base again and do whatever you think it's good for the game... well, good luck with this attitude!
Arec Bardwin
#1092 - 2014-06-07 09:52:51 UTC
The bracket selection box of death is horrible and game breaking. It's impossible to spin the feedback on it in a positive way.

I could just roll over and be silent, but I love this game and I don't want it to fail. Yeah, I think it's that bad.
Panterata
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1093 - 2014-06-07 14:34:51 UTC
Dear CCP Delegate Zero,

This is becoming like a magic circle. It's it obvious that more of the people don't like this stupid tooltips. So I will repeat myself again:

Tell us when you will put on/off option?? after 1 week, after 1 month.... the question is so simple
(we noted one hundred times that you are "still working" and there is "ongoing work")
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#1094 - 2014-06-07 16:26:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaijin Lanis
gascanu wrote:
i understand there was allot of work put into this tooltip thing
Interjecting here, the vertical bracket list system the useless black bracket list window (as "tool tip" is not a proper name for something with a scroll bar) replaced had significantly more work put into it by people who actually play(ed) the game than said window. The overview window, mentioned because it is what the bracket window is desperately attempting to emulate, had exponentially more work put into it than most of kronos and the new tooltip system combined, work put in by people who actually play the game.

So as it currently stands, the bracket window replaced a more functional system with a non-functional clone of the overview window by someone who thought they could duplicate a decade's worth of work in a matter of weeks.

Also, another issue, just because there aren't enough. Setting the tool tip delay to anything other than instant makes the map practically unusable. As the right click menu seems to fight with tool tips over which one gets to be displayed until one fiddles sufficiently to get one or the other. Whereas, setting tooltip delay to instant makes everything except the map unusable.


Another thing, it is nice to be able to see exact, instantly updated capacitor, armor, shield, and hull figures. But that information should NOT be in a tooltip. One should be able to have that information permanently on screen, as having to wait for that information to appear is contradictory, at best (read: "Recieve delayed instant updates!"). This also does not mean the HUD should be redesigned by someone who clearly does not play the game. Just given more display options.

Arec Bardwin wrote:
The bracket selection box of death is horrible and game breaking. It's impossible to spin the feedback on it in a positive way.

I could just roll over and be silent, but I love this game and I don't want it to fail. Yeah, I think it's that bad.
The goal of the bracket window is clearly to teach new players, in a non-textual form, to stop clicking in space and use the overview window for everything.

As nothing else makes sense.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#1095 - 2014-06-07 17:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicen Jehr
my guess is, devs dont want to give an "off" option because they are hoping to put controls in the tooltips. For example the ISIS tooltips have clickable show info links and preview links. So if one day CCP moves the 'overheat' button into a tooltip on the module, or adds a little "Split stack size: ___" control on an inventory tooltip, only users who can see those tooltips can use the controls.

im not saying those are good places to put those specific controls... just that if CCP allows users to globally disable all tooltips, they can never move important UI elements into the tooltips.

My preferred solution would be to allow hiding of tooltips on brackets, overview, and inventory.

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#1096 - 2014-06-07 18:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaijin Lanis
Nicen Jehr wrote:
my guess is, devs dont want to give an "off" option because they are hoping to put controls in the tooltips. For example the ISIS tooltips have clickable show info links and preview links. So if one day CCP moves the 'overheat' button into a tooltip on the module, or adds a little "Split stack size: ___" control on an inventory tooltip, only users who can see those tooltips can use the controls.


That would be SO COOL!! Like in old movies where guys had to unlock a button/switch cover before they could launch ze missiles or fire ze weapons!! In fact, CCP should make it so you have to search for every necessary button feature on the screen, it'll be like a scavenger hunt! It'll also teach people, non-textually, to not click **** and just set hotkeys.


Seriously though, giving them ideas is bad. CCP suffers from a really bad case of selective reading combined with a loose grasp of english. Sarcasm is completely lost.


CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
I'm not going to say anymore at this point and I'm not going to get into a back and forth.
You're not going to say anymore or get drawn into a back and forth because your position is completely untenable.

Unsticking the thread makes it seem issues surrounding this botched update to the UI are a low enough priority that "regular forum maintenance" can override an active thread. Add the fact this particular sub-forum regularly has more stickies than space on the front page and there is no other "proper" place to voice issues about this particular botched update doesn't exactly make it seem like CCP still considering this an active concern. While this may seem like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, it is significantly more damning to take actions that will effectively push this thread off the front page than it would have been to just leave the thread stickied until development on this particular facet of the game was deemed concluded.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1097 - 2014-06-07 22:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Rommiee
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:

I'm not going to say anymore at this point and I'm not going to get into a back and forth. I think the main points have been aired and are known to all who have been keeping up with the thread. By all means keep contributing. I think it would be useful to tone down some of the hyperbole and acridity of the commentary but at the end of the day that is up to you guys.


You are completely correct. The main points have been aired, many many times.

So without any hyperbole and acridity, can you please explain why the hell you are so against either:

1. Providing an option to switch off the new worthless tooltips
2. Providing additional sliders/checkboxes, splitting up the various types of tooltip to give the player more control of how each type is displayed.

If what you say is true, and you have been monitoring this thread, you will clearly understand how much of a game breaker this is, and how strongly the players feel about it.

Therefore, you can understand our frustration when ferk all gets done about it. Condescending and arrogant posts by some Devs and CSM members really do not help.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1098 - 2014-06-09 07:03:47 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
First, please don't misinterpret the thread being unstickied. This is just normal forum housekeeping. We publish a lot of news, announcements and dev blogs. We can't keep their associated threads stickied for very long or in the end the whole point of a sticky is defeated. It really doesn't signal anything in itself about the importance of the ongoing work.



That’s a bit weird, just a quick scan through some of the stickied posts, show a number of them which are older than this thread, some significantly so:


Dev Blog: Team Up: Industry Work Teams
Dev blog: Researching, the Future
Dev blog: Fortune Favors the Bold
Dev blog: The Price of Change
Dev Blog: Delivering The Industry New Eden Deserves!
Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!



So if you are going to make up some excuse for un-stickying this one (to detract from the fact that you want to hide it), at least make is plausible.
Panterata
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1099 - 2014-06-09 07:14:24 UTC
copy > paste

So I will repeat myself again for 6 time:

Tell us when you will put on/off option?? after 1 week, after 1 month.... the question is so simple
(we noted one hundred times that you are "still working" and there is "ongoing work")
Kenneth Endashi
Kor-Azor Slave Holdings
#1100 - 2014-06-09 07:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Endashi
Hello