EVE General Discussion

Tl;DR, but as a 10 year vet I believe it is my right, naw duty, to tell you my .02 isk.

A few things.

CCP had a single product in the beginning, ofc that was EvE. CCP decided to branch out into the CCG market, because WoW was doing it, so meh why the hades not. They partnered with White Wolf to make the cards and devlope the game. My guess is, during this relationship they got to talking about WoD and how cool it would be as an MMO. From a business prospective, CCP looked at that and went 'yea we could do that, we have eve... and we are not suppose to put all yoru eggs in one basket, so a second property might work' So CCP and white wolf prolly started talks of WW doing the CCG, and CCP doing the MMO... thouse talks then turned to, 'hell lets just buy out white wolf...' So they did.

At the time, and the market, it was nto a bad idea. Vampries were on a resurnece, as you had the Underwold Movies and the Blade movies out. Twilight was out in book form, True Blood books were popular. And there was a lacking of Vampire themed games. On paper this is brilliant. It would expand CCP's ip, and allow them to gain more revenue, and if EvE failed, they had asecond project to fall back on.

Come the fan fest (06 I think) announcement and its met with very mixed feelings. CCP prolly scratched there heads a bit, but shrugged it off and proceded.

I'll note this before I go on, I only skimmed the article, i'll do a through reading after work, and I do not work for ccp nor have I ever, so this is all random and nothing official.

Anyway, so they started development of World Of Darkness MMO, but not at first, as they had to first get the house of both companies in order. I'd guess full development started in 07. As I remember being at he 07 fan fets and walking with a couple who was telling me that CCP is hiring future GM's in Atlanta.

So, you have eve in development, WoD in development, and whatever issues come up (note have not read the articale) So eve CCP starts to get ambitious, and in 2009 come up witht he apocarypta expantion, as well as the idea for dust. (yes I remember an article as early as late 09 about the dust concept) So, and anyone who followed dev blogs at the time would know, ccp threw all hands on deck on eve, they even announced it a few times. This would slow WoD progress.

Somewhere in here, CCP scrapped the working idea for WiS and changed to the incarinia crap we got. This ment a reworking, so WoD delayed a bit.

CCP has this idea that Dust will be amazing and they can do this great stuff, and once WiS comes it will give them more money, blah blah blah. Incarina, decrepted old eve system, microtransactions and greed is good hit at once. CCP thinks they are doing well, but then the players give them a slap in the face.

Hilmar appoligies, and anyone who bitches that he did nto write the letter so its bad that he did not write it is an idiot. CEO's don't write letters, they have other people do it, and usually give feedback/read and change before they sign. This is how it works. Deal with it.

CCP refocuses and again pulls everyone off WoD.

2013. CCP is looking at other companies expanding there brands and thinking, hey if hey can do it (ala the CCG) They have dust ready to roll, and part of the brand extention is games on different platforms. So they show the 'eve everywere' presidentation, and launch dust...

Dust did not do as good as they thought, was it a failure? idk. But I think dust not hitting what they thought it would, and the reaction to EvE VR, ccp took a step back. And in that step back, they went 'yea we can prolly do this better' They also see other games coming. So CCP decides to regroup, first launching valk, then ending some 'eve everywhere stuff' then killing WoD, because well if your gonna focus on eve.. you don't need the other game. Then moving to legion on pc.

Its a good business move, to considate, its also risky. If eve falls, so does CCP. That's scary if you think of it. That's why dust was lack luster. If dust failed, then meh we stll got eve, but if they were interconnected....

IMO the layoffs and the article do;t bother me. CCP seems to be learning from their mistakes, which is good. The question now is, will they pull it off, or mess it up. Onlt time will tell, but from where I am standing, the future looks bright.

One more note, yes i'm an eve fan boi, i'll support eve till it closes or I die. I love CCP, always have. But I know they are human and can do stupid stuff. I just hiope they finally learned, finish things you start before moving on, and focus, always focus on what will get you more money, not waste time on shineys.

(will spell check later, at work, and my back hurts form standing)

Old eve systems being corrected and or finished that have been left collecting dust for years. Even in the road map, things that hamper game play are suppose to be looked at and fixed, leading up to expanding the universe.

Dust being moved to legion and deployed where it should of been in the first place, PC.

Valk coming to pc, giving people the dog fighting they require.

All games being linked together via a single account, so you can jump into each game with no issues.

Eventual linking of all games playing in one big universe. (This I think needs to happen from day one, but that's just me)

The ability with everything being on the same platform to easily patch and link the patches together.

Changing deployment cycles to in theory address issues and bring new things faster.

Specializing on a single ip, on a single platform.

What is there not to be optimistic about?

"They lost 21m last year lol" no, they did not really 'lose' 21m. They technically lost about 2m, which was from marketing, probly with the dust lunch and this to be expected. They made 10 min MORE in 2013 then they did in 2012 (look it up) And they 21m loss was actually covered by profits from the past 3 years (again look it up) As we know the 21m loss now is the cancelation of WoD, this is not really a loss, its a write off of stuff they are not going to use, this wasted time.

"Lol they are laying people off.." Right.. you kill a project you get rid of people you no longer need. WoD layoffs, Mobile layoffs as they don't need it, etc don't bother me. Its business, this stuff happens. could it mean something? sure. Does it matter? no not really.

"lol devs are jumping ship right and left" so? Companies have turn over, its normal. The reason you know about it, is people watch CCP's stuff like a damn hawk. Does it mean anything? Not really, people change jobs for all kinds of reasons. Could it mean something? Sure.

"lol EA is going to take over CCP" why? because an ex/ea employee recently became a board member? or got hired by ccp? Again people change jobs all the time. And Bill gates was on the board of apple for a while at one point. Steve jobs was on multiple boards, it really doesn't mean squat.

"But lol they are going to riot!" You have prolly never made friends at work have you? I'll tell you how this works. Co worker 1 gets tired of the current company and jumps ships to company a. His buddy a few months later gets tired of working for company b, and ask co worker a if company a has a job. Co worker a puts in a good word and co worker b gets a job at company a. This is normal, and nothing really to see here.

"lol the ccp management sucks man" How many companies have you worked for? ALL companies management sucks. ALL of them. Big and small. You will always have idiots, who have no idea what you do or how your job works, or get stupid ideas they think will be grand and can talk people into them. Does this mean anything? no, its business as usual.

Again, where is the 'writing on the wall?'

And to address something else. "CCP has not announced the sub numbers... the sky is falling" Lets use logic shall we? What game was released in 2013? Right dust. How much more money did ccp make last year if you ignore the write off? right about 10m. CCP made 74m in gave rev last year, and 2m from other stuff. that's about 10 min more then 2012. So if you had the sub numbers, and did basic math, you could work out how much money they got from dust. And my guess is, ether subs are super low, but I doubt that, as when they plundged after incarnia, everyone knew. OR and this is more likely, Dust was a disappointment. If it turned out that dust made like 3m last year from may till 12, which is 3m/7 as it was out for 7 months, you get 435k a month.. which is not very good. its not horrible, but... So that's my guess, they don't want us to know the exact breakdown of eve money vs dust.

I see no reason to be all 'omg the sky is falling' could it be? sure. but based ont eh evidence is it? no not really. Circumstancial means noda

Also, WTB more Trippia art. WTF.

And, more importantly, gl to the Devs who lost their jobs, all the best o7

I'm torn between this and this at the moment.

I'd have smacked someone over the head with my own monitor if they'd made that remark to me. Luckily none of my managers have ever dared get that close and open their silly mouths. Although I have heard squishy deflating sounds a few times when I eyeball them.

Why shouldn't he complain about getting less pay?

"Eve is dying" implies that the players are leaving. I know that according to some there have been drops in the number of players, but there are many factors which could affect that. The first that comes to mind would be how many players have simply taken a short break from Eve to play Wildstar. I haven't played it, but I have heard it is a heavy PvP game, and I would think that the Eve playerbase would be comprised of people who are interested in PvP, and not just from one venue. In other words, they'll be back.

In regards to "eve is dying" when it comes to CCP, the best we can do at this point, in my opinion, is watch what CCP does. Observe the changes being made to Eve Online, and compare them with other actions by companies that have failed in the past (or sold their products, etc.).

Any daily newspaper is hardly the most reliable source for accurate information regarding internal company policy and strategy.
The desire to sell space and get eyeballs on page, may be considered by some a more relevant motivation.

There have been many events over time, that have been condensed into a short article. The focus of that may have given the impression of gross incompetence and neglect. There are always funny anectdotes about managers. Some are less connected to reality than others, and honestly, if one lets the devs decide what should be implemented without checks and balances, all hell breaks loose.

Times have changed, the market has changed, CCP have made the decision that it is uneconomic to try to chase those changes any further with an unreleased product.

I am sure many in CCP are reevaluating their role in this entire event, some will certainly feel vindicated after this article and some ashamed.

But this is normal life and normal business, CCP will learn, hopefully those who are no longer employed will find better opportunities and goals. And CCP looks at what makes EvE popular, and what loses them subscribers and adapt and overcome leaving the company and EvE as a game better off, and those remaining employees with better security for the future.

Not saying he cannot complain. Just saying that that's happening all over. Lots of folks are facing the same thing. It's nothing special.

Another one of the remaining bloggers had a post today about the fact that the "run is over", and these layoffs "should end the debate" about falling subs.

*Snip* Removed off topic part of the post. ISD Ezwal.

So you are saying that Hilmar has not tried to milk us, the players for more money... seriously?