Player Features and Ideas Discussion

How important the occupancy war varies from player to player.

But my point was not to say that the occupancy war isn't important. My point is to say how often a system flips isn't a sign of stagnation. Some of the most active systems have not flipped in over a year. On the other hand many systems tend to flip back and forth and not much else happens there.

My own personal view is that occupancy should be a huge part of Faction war. It should be the thing that brings disparate corps together in the militias for a common goal. I would very much like ccp to get occupancy into shape. And I believe the way to do that is to make it fun and challenging. IMO the most fun and challenging thing in eve is pvp.



I happen to think faction war missions are well designed pve content. When you think about how a low sec mission should work they got that pretty much correct IMO. If you think you can do better then throw it up in the assembly hall. I don't think they should do anything to make them more of a pvp type system.

You might think I am selfish for requesting what I personally want to see in faction war. But time and again CCP has said they want exactly that sort of feedback. They do not want players guessing what they think other players want. They want to hear directly what you want. That's why I don't try to speak for others.

I would point out that in asking for occupancy plexing to be a pvp mechanic I am not asking for much from pve players. There is plenty of pve in eve. You have incursions, regular missions, pirate missions, faction war missions, mining missions, distribution missions, cosmos missions, epic arc missions, sleeper sites. That's just off the top of my mind.

Now what sort of mechanics provide a framework and context to engage in frequent and high quality pvp?

go ahead I will wait......

No such mechanic currently exists! In a game so well known for its fantastic pvp system there is no good way to get frequent quality pvp!

Faction war occupancy is the perfect vehicle. Asking for one mechanic is not selfish. I am not the only one who would like this either. By providing this mechanic that eve currently lacks ccp will not only draw many current eve players but they will greatly expand the player base.

Oh and btw I am not interested in arenas. They are not really a "context" for pvp they are a fabrication. And I don't recall anyone saying we should do away with plexes.

So I've been ill the past week, as such wasn't able to post my findings... was going to check if Daniel had but noticed 25 pages that honestly, I just don't want to read as almost guarantee it's alone the lines of bitching and moaning back and forth about things that they're not even touching.

Which sure feedback in other areas is fine, except for the fact that they're not touching it so they'll just assume what they're doing here is perfectly fine.

Still I spent some time on SiSi with these changes, getting a feel for them... specifically what exactly each complex is like now these changes are in effect.

Put bluntly, this is simply a massive LP Nerf at the cost of New Players feeling like they will be able to contribute.
In-fact just as a point of note (myself and Daniel Jackson) over a few days tested DPS Tanks, Output, Respawns, etc...

The findings were:

All Complexes have 5 Spawns, spread out evenly across the time limit. This is suppose to be a random amount of time, but seriously we did this for nearly 16 hours in total... the results were conclusive 5 Per Complex, with a final Spawn that will occur even after the timer completes that is a bit more random.

You are guaranteed 1 Tag of that level per Spawn, plus a reasonable chance (~15%) of a second rare tag of that level.

The DPS Tanks are:
Novice / Frigate - 70 DPS
Small / Destroyer - 110 DPS
Medium / Cruiser - 160 DPS
Large / Battlecruiser - 340 DPS

As a point of note here, their repair rate is every 3 second burst meaning breaking them is not a simple case of simply doing more DPS but rather you will need anywhere between 20 - 50+ DPS to be able to kill them within a reasonable amount of time.

A Hookbill for example, with Level 5 Skills can do a Novice in about 12minutes, Small in 20minutes and Medium is basically impossible. Which is fine, but swapping out to something like a Condor, Tristan, etc... and a Novice was possible but would take nearly 20minutes - but again bare in mind those are with L5 Skills for those ships, those who are newer to the game will basically be unable to break any of these on their own.

So sure, forces a bit more focus on Teamwork... which is great if you happen to live / have free time during a time zone where there happens to be a lot of people or don't prefer to go around Solo fighting (which is quite common) but is an arbitrary barrier for entry that has been added meaning new players have a more difficult time and have a substantially lower LP / hour potential.

Now not being funny but that seems like a massive **** move, as these changes are meant to help "prevent" farming right?
Well no, cause it just means farmers throw 2 instead of 1 ship per Complex, and still AFK with Stabs meaning they can just insta-warp when multi-boxing.

In-fact kinda makes their jobs a bit easier because as the difficulty with earning LP, which is still equally shared rather than each person getting a set amount... means that LP value will go up as there is less, and now even multi-boxing they're only focusing on a single screen for an early warning rather than multiple d-scans.

Not sure how that helps that situation at all.

If we more on to the more important aspect here of Spawns and NPCs while PVP fighting... sorry but the spawn rate of NPCs in a Minor Complex is almost literally in most cases once you finish killing one the next appears. Alright so the NPCs don't do a great deal of damage, but it IS enough to mean any passive Shield Regen or Repair system is going to have to be put under strain while fighting in Complexes.

Basically speaking the attackers in small groups basically have an additional rookie pilot, that sure on their own aren't a threat but together can nudge a fight against you... this means the attackers will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage, especially as there is a good chance that taking on the PVP fight is more likely to be quicker and easier to deal with than the NPC.

Again the problem isn't that the NPC is there so much as removal take time and regardless if you remove it or not... either way you're providing your opponent with an advantage.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the idea that each of the Complexes is designed so that really you should be bringing the right ship for the size of the complex... but it's the simple fact it doesn't scale based on what warps in, plus having to deal with it at the same time as doing PVP really is just going to turned most people off doing them; because they'll become too much of a hassle.

At least with systems like the Incursions there is a Pay-out table, where up to a certain number everyone gets and equal amount rather than a share from a pool. Realistically for this to still be valid and encourage more team work behaviour, we need /THAT/ system in place.

I'd also say efforts to try to prevent Farming is pointless, you're just going to destroy a legitimate players means of enjoying that aspect of the game... instead you should be focused on providing US with the tools to deal with these leeching bastards ourselves. I mean eventually you're just going to make earning LP via Complexes less lucrative than Missions, you think that'll mean Farmers will suddenly disappear or move BACK to Mission Running?

I have nothing against Missions in FW, but again the main issue there is they're basically a Solo affair; with to be honest little risk once you learn them ... they should also mimic Low-Sec Expeditions, sure those you could do on your own; but realistically it's a case of throw a seriously expensive ship at it, that makes a juicy target or bring a few friends.

As for the Cloaking 30km Disable thing... sorry but it's just stupid. Most ships have to enter uncloaked anyway, almost all of them if they're "hiding" are going to be 30+ km from the beacon anyway; so it doesn't make a change to anyone outside of those using it for hunting purposes - which is again is basically taking away a...

In caldari/frog fw space, systems without stations are seen as not important. Those systems are ignored for the most part. Whether we are taking those systems or defending them, they are last. We post ourselves in the system(s) with the most (friendly)traffic. More than that we stay in system that have good markets, or are close to good markets in highsec. Its really that simple.

I just never understood this. Why force yourself to have a stabbed alt d-plexing when you can just dock right outside faction war space? No need to have alts "winning" the occupancy war for you.

I don't think I agree with anything you say. FW missions pay better than high sec missions and are worth the added risk. Have you ever figured out how to run them? Everyone has their own opinion but I hear more people complaining that they pay too well for the risk. Imo CCP did a great job with that design.


"Context" does not mean "consent." I don't want plexes to be removed that is what we should be fighting over. The problem is when you can win occupancy much more efficiently when you run from every battle than when you stay and fight.

10 jumps through highly populated lowsec in a PVE ship for 1100 LP and 400k isk? No thanks, I'll stick to plex farming, it will now take a little longer, I don't have max skills and fly T1 frigates due to the cost of losing expensive PVE ships.

As for context and consent - try reading what you posted that I replied to, you will see I used the word "context" in context. Plexes "are" arenas, they are just not used that way by most and will be used that way far less now there are constant NPC spawns.

Yep.

Ran a small last night that had one dead spawn and no others appeared.

Yes this is very annoying, and it could be avoided by making the CAPTURE POINT having the 30k radius instead of the BEACON.
I dont understand why they didnt do that in the first place because you shouldn be able to cloak within 30k of the Capture Point and NOT the beacon.....

Fail at what? Buying alt accounts to deplex my base system?

Yes please! Can we PLEASE get any confirmation that this is being read by a DEV, and that they will look into this?

It makes no sense to have the "warp-in beacon" always on zero on your overview, but with the Capture Point (also known as "the button" it makes PERFECT sense, since as long as you are within range of the capture point (wich will then be 0) it will keep running the timer. So please make the Capture Point have the radius of 30k at wich you are at 0 and not the warp-in beacon.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE change this, and please give confirmation if any DEV reads this.

THANK YOU!