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Well, following that menality, no HAM legions, sacrileges, bellicose, typhoon, etc...

Typhoon is a working battleship fully capable of using torpedos.
Raven allthough not being a super solid ship for pvp works really well on the weapons department.
Each race have a stealth bomber capable of delivering 400-600 dps worth of torpedo damage.

Obviously all people would love a new ship fitting the thing THEY would like to do, but the decission to make the Naga a hybrid ship is a decission fitting well into the caldari ship line as well as being a better choice to do the job intended for the new tier 3 BCs.

Pinky

Indeed CCP have failed explaining what intended role they wanted to give the tier 3 battlecruisers, however as they get slaughtered up close by anything using drones, web or energy neutralizer I believe they are intended as fast long range platforms. And for sure missiles doesn't work very well in long range pvp. Certainly not compared against turrets with instant damage able to deliver huge damage even on small targets if the tracking is sufficient. If CCP had made the Naga a Torpedo ship they would give caldari another cheap ratting boat with minimal use for pvp.

People tend to forget or never realize that missiles have always been a secondary weapon used by a few ships as their primary. Just as drone fans have drone boats in almost each ship class the caldari already have missile boats in almost every ship class and as a race wouldn't benefit from another Drake that can only shoot battleships. It would instead pull Caldari further away from their legacy in hybrids that finally gets some attention to hopefully make people use them without being condemned as a failure even before undocking.

And the reason I mentioned stealth bombers is because even T2 they are super cheap and easy to get into using aproximately the same tactics as the new tier 3 BCs. They are small and fast - Capable of dealing damage with BS sized weapons at long range in return for not having a big tank.

Pinky

EDIT: New players have it way easier than veterans and Eve is specifically designed for new players to be able to specialize and compete with veterans without getting absolutely curbstomped. And it is absolutely possible to catch up rather fast...

let me try to answer both of you.

first: Vincent Gaines, You're hardly trying to bring anything in the discussion.

I'm playing a little under a year and have about 16 million something in skill points a 3th of those are in MLO.

Which has me everything on standard with the exception of advanced Cruise missile and Torpedos.

True that would be something like four to five months though that would leave you with out the option to fit a proper ship.

(I'll admit that is I had invested a couple of weeks in reading all the manuals I might have been there sooner. Though that is not what everybody (probably most) people do

Pinky Denmark:

Unlike Mister gains you come with reasoning.

I believe you when you say Missiles where intended as a secondary weapon system but, I think if you step back from your experience and knowledge and try to look at the Caldari description, the ships and the amount of skill point needed to invest in missiles, you can't say it's a secondary weapon system, despite of what it once might have been, that isn't the knowledge of a new player.

[in short, starting caldari will get you to Kestrel or Merlin, more probably Merlin when new, destroyers are hardly usable for new players, fitting is b*&(*, so you'll probably looking for a cruiser, wich leaves a semi mining vessel, a specialized jammer with skills you don't have so soon, not to mention most totally new players are still PVE-ing then, which leaves the Caracal and the Moa, and in that line the Caracal is cheaper. at firs money is an issue and there is where most people make the decision for the path to follow and the first real choice you must make for either Hybrid or missiles, when that one is made you race toward lvl4 missions, so you can make the money you need to be able to take more risks for pvp and other stuff]

finally you speak of how it is easier than it used to be and this is exactly what I mean with forgetting the new/newer player. Many people have made the decision to stay, or not to stay, before it becomes an issue if you're able to catch up or not. EVE is fairly unique that is it’s power and it’s weakness and it would benefit both players and developers to understand that. Those new players aren’t on these forums, they’re gone before they start to bother, and I personally that if you lure them to stay long enough to see the big picture you’d find good stream of fresh blood, though telling them they can easily catch up, within a year and a half isn’t the way, telling them it is so much easier than it used to be, doesn’t help people.

The people that I spoke that gave EVE a try and decided not to subscribe, the lack of visual progress was a thing that came back in all their explanations, and EVE's only visual progress are new ships.
In that light I think it's a shame the new tier 3 Battle cruisers don't have a Missile ship among their ranks and I would be lying of course if I wouldn't have want a new toy for myself.

On the contrary, I come with plenty of reasoning. Just because what I tell you isn't what you want to hear, or that I point out the fallacy in what you have done; you feel as though it's not worth consideration. so I will elaborate for you, and everyone else complaining that they don't get a new ship to play with.

I am Caldari, and started playing in 2006. I chose them because of one weapon: Railgun.

Missiles were pretty good back then. People PvP'd in Ravens. The Caracal was an adequate cruiser. I began in a Bantam, and from there to a Cormorant. When fitting the ship I saw it favored hybrids, so while I had been training mining lasers up and missile launchers, I threw in small hybrid turret. I trained it up to IV, and then my buddy came by in a Caracal. In love. Got sick of mining, and got a kessie. Trained standard launchers to IV. Ran missions. Trained up T1 heavies.

Before I knew it, I could use named T1 heavies and I was doing level 3s. I had been playing for 3 weeks. I got a Ferox (the drake did not exist) and saw the bonuses to hybrids, so I trained up medium hybrid turret to IV. After trying the hybrids for a while I realized that RAILS SUCK. This was disappointing so I switched back to missiles. I eventually began using T2 heavies, and T1 cruise/torps. Cruise missiles sucked and everyone was using torpedoes. Cool. There was no hybrid BS at this time... but in development CCP had something planned-

The Rokh's stats were released. 8 turrets. word was out and people were fearing the Rokh was the new fleet ship. People were crying on the forums how Caldari already have the best missile BS in the game and now they get the best turret boat. Yeah, seriously. Don't believe me look it up.

Well the Rokh became a disappointment, the nano era and projectile era were soon to follow, as well as the probing overhaul- where once probing was a skill and took time, now anyone could do it. Sniping died.

I still trained large Hybrids to IV. Trained small to V.

The Drake was released. Oh my god an awesome BC and I was perfectly skilled for it. My rail skills went on the backburner.

After a while I gained about 3m SP in missiles. I began to level out. I looked at all the Caldari ships I could fly and saw I couldn't use half of them. So every now and then I trained hybrids up- even though they were being ignored by CCP. I did it because I was smart enough and took the time to see that nerfs and buffs were cyclic.

I remember people who trained amarr whining that they sucked (and they did), when minmatar was a joke. I remember the lesson learned back then. In order to keep from being nerf-proof you need to cross train.

Diversify.

I could have switched then but chose not to. Persued capital skills. Another char of mine took care of subcap combat. Then another- and so forth.

But I watched.

I watched as the Drake was released, and then the Tengu. I watched as every year hybrids fell and fell. I watched as the deimos and eagle fell below build cost. I watched as 75s, 125s, 250s, and 425s just stockpiled up. You couldn't GIVE them away.

Were you complaining then? If Someone had complained that rails weren't getting love the response was "lol you shouldn't have trained hybrids."

It festered due to CCP's ineptitude for so long that newer players, like yourself, never even realized that missiles were a SECONDARY weapon system. Really. Many people just glossed over that fact and associated missiles = caldari.

Every race utilizes missiles.
Every race utilized guns.
Every race utilizes drones.

It has always been encouraged to be a jack of many trades and master of none. To be flexible.

Again, I urge people to read the book, "Who moved my cheese?"


Adapt or die, it's the old saying of Eve players and has been for years.

So what, you didn't get a ship. Maybe you will learn a lesson.. put all your eggs in one basket or sometimes the good stuff won't fall in. When you trained up all those Caldari ships and you read about those hybrid slots and bonuses... did you not ask yourself why they were there?

Mister Gaines

I disagree that guns are primary weapons and missiles are secondary.
Missiles are the primary weapon of the Caldari, as shown by the skill requirements for the tengu offensive subsystems and the presence of CN missiles in the LP store. The larger point of Caldari, and the reason I joied the game as one are that missiles are the primary weapons, guns are the secondary.

Both races which use hybrids are set up to do damage differently to the Amarr and the Minmatar; the Gallente have drones, the Caldari have missiles.

Whether you like it or not, the Caldari are the missile race; if you want to use missiles you go Caldari, just as if you want to use drones you go Gallente. Therefore it makes no sense that the top tier ship of the Caldari are all gunboats. I was celebrating that finally the best ship in it's size range was a missile dps ship (the drake is a tank, not a dps ship). But no, CCP have once again changed it so that if you want a missile dps ship you have to train up T2 and pay much more for a ship you are going to lose.

I find it so amusing that this ship was said to be worse than the Tornado. Infact, alot of pilots didn't want the bonus to capacitor consumption. Everyone was so focused on the Tornado being "overpowered" which it was not. That this ship, which was superior got buy CCP and most of the community.

The Oracle out-damages all tier battle-cruisers in most in-game situations. The ship is also superior to a Tornado as a mobile platform. The only place the Tornado is close, but not superior is in volley damage (tachyon versus Artillery). Other than that. I suppose the Tornado is more viable solo, but most tier 3 battle-cruisers are terrible in that form of engagement. With that exception of the Talos. Which is by far the most viable solo. Way better than the Tornado in that regard.

There will be mix fleets of Oracle and Drakes or Oracles and Hurricanes. Atleast In most mobile fleets, if not all. You'll have to mix to deal with smaller vessels or use Rapiers and Huggins.

The Oracle dominates in shield, armour and long range set-up (aplha or damage per second).

There are 5 setups that will most likely be the most viable for this ship. Either way. Fleets that are not able to field these ships in small gangs. Versus fleets that do. Will be in for a big surprise. Kitting just got harder! All it takes is 2 of these in every fleet and most nano ships without logistics will be incapable of anything. 1600 damage per second from 2 ships up to 65km.

CCP should have limited these ships to only use beams, arts, rails Like I've said in the past...

EDIT: Btw! I'm comparing the Tornado with the Oracle before the Tornado's range got reduced. What that means is. The Tornado is even worse when compared with the Oracle, when It was not all that great by comparison to begin with. So, yeah! Funny stuff! Naga and Tornado are close in-line with one another in terms of viability. Minus damage selection and long range turret (aplha >dps).

Just to point an error on your reasoning, aren't there cn hybrid ammo and guns on the lp store too? Maybe that is why the top tier ships frm caldari use hybrids.

Played with these ships in 0.0 space. I can confirm they die very easily and have been largely ineffectual so far. Here's hoping they work against capital ships, which is something not yet encountered.

its just that people want to use them at any cost because they are new and most of the time they use them badly.
when they wont the new ship to use at any cost and people will start to use them properly i think they will be very powerful