Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Several missile BS's have application bonuses.

Also, it's a Pirate BS.. It's SUPPOSED to be better than the rest. See Vindi vs Navy Mega, Bhaal vs Armageddon, etc. It should be better at DPS, be it pure RAW numbers, or Application.. atm it's a SNI with a scram and a weaker tank, and harder to fit.

The time to make the change is NOW.. Even if it's made OP, CCP can always dial it back, it's not like this is a T1 BS that can be everywhere in a week. It's gonna take probably 6mo to a year for it to balance out to a price point.. if it's deemed too powerful CCP can nerf it back a little in update 6 weeks after this one. I'd Rather have had more time on the test server to balance them out, but lets face it, that's not gonna happen, we don't even have an acknowledgement of the issues, much less a change on the server to test.. and this is just over a week out. Thankfully for 6 weeks we can test a (hopefully) better one on TQ without much worry, as sheer cost will keep the BS from being anything more than a novelty item for the time being.

Yes, and most missile battleships don't also have the extreme flexiblilty of being able to fit bonused weapons of every size with every ammo type. And they also don't have supreme speed and agility with the longest point range in the game.

The simple fact is that its a lot worse than MOST of the other missile battleships

.....and the point range bonus is useless

Though the Barg has one utility slot, it needs to have 8 launchers and a 8-10% damage bonus per level.
If it doesnt get a bonus to application then it needs to hit like a freight train being pushed by superman. Im talking a high alpha and 1800 dps with t2 BCS and faction ammo.

CCP, you all have a chance to make a great Missile pirate faction BS, dont ruin it. People have been looking forward to it for a long time.
As it sits the Barg its no better than any T1

Well, since there's nothing else left to discuss... Short of having to Rumplestiltskin my first born, who can hook me up with a Barghest or three on June 3?

I don't object to the tight fitting, cause several of the Pirate BS's are tight themselves.. Though this does seem a little tighter than even an Arty Mach..

I have tested Barghest and i agree that it needs more dps, powergrid and more cpu.
Even Raven navy issue applies damage better because of exp radius reduction than Barghest.

Also Barghest may need little more cargohold for all the missiles.

There's a huge difference between being able to actually apply 1600dps with a Vindicator and a theoretical 1000-1200dps on a Barghest with torpedoes. Inferring that missiles can deliver 100% damage application over long distances without the use of rigors, flares, target painters and webs is an oversimplification and doesn't take into consideration the various missile mechanics.

Finally someone who gets missiles

Yes just like artillery guns, missiles are a long(er) range alpha turrets with delayed damage impact. Well the long range missiles are.

The short(er) range missiles are still working one the same principle but the focus is more on unloading the payload quicker.

For cosmetic reasons I like to call alpha for missiles rather 'volley', since you through a volley at your foe and it still needs some time to impact.

The dps is of a second nature here just simply because missiles don't do damage the second they are fired and the behavior is like an armor rep that gives you hp at the end of the cycle and not like a shield booster that gives you hp at the beginning of the cycle (like turrets do).

The way that the volley damage doesn't get out of hand is that it is less than half of the damage an artilley turrets can do for all long range missiles at thier class size weapons and that's okay.

The Bargest has a theoretical volley damage of a rounded 7500 hp damage (selectable) for tech 2 anti-ship cruise missiles and I even look at what that would look like for rage torpedos.


Now if we get rid of all that tracking nonsence that was dumped upon us in late 2006 (yes I was there and even if I just was a young citizen of New Eden and didn't say anything at the time, I was against it), the Bargest would all of a sudden be a tyrant with revenge of the missiles written all over it.

CCP think about it for a moment,
all turrets have been buffed since then and all your problems with that missile tracking nonsence you are trying to contain since then would all go away without being game breaking.

It would also be nice to look at at the tournament when the slowest ships in the game (Caldari) would have something to say about the pink ships doctrine you have to view there year after year over and over again.

The answer to you is the Vindicator.

In paper the ship does decent DPS, but in practice, against anything other than caps, or without a Vindi beside it keeping it still, it's more likely to work out to be 600 rather than 1600.

Also, I see the addition of an Application bonus to be a stop-gap, till CCP FINALLY gets around to fixing torps, or add missile equivalent to TE's/TC's. I mean the ship has extra low's/mids if we had the modules to make it work without dedicating all the rigs and half the mids to it, I'd be much happier.. as it is, to even begin to make it viable you need to use all the Rig slots for application, and 2 TP's.. and even after that, you're still doing sub-par DPS.

It makes no sense that every other short range weapon system is the best at hitting moving targets than their long range counterpart, and with missiles it's the reverse.. With Torps being the worst offender of the lott.

CCP Fozzie said, when the debate came up about 90% webs, that they were not being removed from the Serpentis line, because the bonus work in harmony. That the effectiveness of the Vindi was the goal for all the Pirate lines. The Mach kites like a champ, the NM has near perfect damage application, the RS is special, the Bhaal slows down it's prey, then turns it off, the Vindi.. The Vindi stops it's prey then pumbles it.. As it stands now what does this do? It keeps the ship from warping, and then annoys it..

The Scram on this BS is long range, so it shouldn't be as perfect as a Vindi, but as I see it, it should at least do Vindi numbers On Paper if it's not gonna have an Application bonus. If it can get a bonus, then it should still have it's DPS bumped up a little, but that bonus will make it as effective as it needs to be to be a Viable ship to use.

As I said before in other posts. As it stands now, with the scram and no application bonus, in every PVP situation, I'd want an Arazu over this. Longer range point/scram, and far FAR cheaper. If I want it there for the DPS, then I'll take a CNR, or a Typhoon.