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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#661 - 2014-05-21 23:02:24 UTC
Maraner wrote:
Alec Freeman wrote:
Errr... This is a terrible idea on all ships except the Deep Space Transport. The MJD is an anti PvP device. I would only deem it acceptable on a BS because of there **** mobility but on a cane which is also able to travel at 2k m/s. This is ****.



No its a pro pvp module. It will let us engage ships that kite. It will force people to close and scram that want to tackle - and in turn get scrammed back.

It should ideally bring a return to combat BC fleets and perhaps even mixed fleets of BS and BC. If you cant scram someone in the spool up time of the MJD they are getting away for sure however there are far more pernicious ways to avoid gate camps - the jump align cloak warp f-ckery that has gone on for years for example.

Most BCs want if not actually NEED to close to close range for pew pew. The MJD will hopefully see an end to risk free setups like ishtars and some beam platforms, even the 1400mm nado fleets APOC fleets etc etc. It will let a bunch of club wielding thugs close to point back range and drop the smack.

Yes people will use them to avoid fights at times, but I suspect the module will cause more pvp than it reduces.



Not it will not allow that. Now kite ships wil just INGORE the BC move away and there will be LESS PVP.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#662 - 2014-05-22 06:33:57 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Maraner wrote:
Alec Freeman wrote:
Errr... This is a terrible idea on all ships except the Deep Space Transport. The MJD is an anti PvP device. I would only deem it acceptable on a BS because of there **** mobility but on a cane which is also able to travel at 2k m/s. This is ****.



No its a pro pvp module. It will let us engage ships that kite. It will force people to close and scram that want to tackle - and in turn get scrammed back.

It should ideally bring a return to combat BC fleets and perhaps even mixed fleets of BS and BC. If you cant scram someone in the spool up time of the MJD they are getting away for sure however there are far more pernicious ways to avoid gate camps - the jump align cloak warp f-ckery that has gone on for years for example.

Most BCs want if not actually NEED to close to close range for pew pew. The MJD will hopefully see an end to risk free setups like ishtars and some beam platforms, even the 1400mm nado fleets APOC fleets etc etc. It will let a bunch of club wielding thugs close to point back range and drop the smack.

Yes people will use them to avoid fights at times, but I suspect the module will cause more pvp than it reduces.



Not it will not allow that. Now kite ships wil just INGORE the BC move away and there will be LESS PVP.


It's so hilarious seeing you trying to sound like you're doing this "for the good of the game" when you actually mean "fck, there'll be some targets my running away ship might not be able to kill without impunity". Your tears are better than the average whining carebear's.
Draco Knight
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#663 - 2014-05-22 11:19:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Draco Knight
Gregor Parud wrote:

It's so hilarious seeing you trying to sound like you're doing this "for the good of the game" when you actually mean "fck, there'll be some targets my running away ship might not be able to kill without impunity". Your tears are better than the average whining carebear's.

It is funny how lesser skilled pvp'ers believe kiting is getaway tactic, when it actually enables you to stay on grid and fight much longer, often in hostile territory, vastly outnumbered. There should be more to pvp in eve than hitting approach and apply scram+web, waiting for the rock, paper, scissor outcome. Kiting actually takes player skills to master.

Introducing more teleporting gameplay with point and bubble immunity, is a servere nerf to pvp in eve.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#664 - 2014-05-22 11:23:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Wrayeth wrote:
What's the word on the absolution getting a fourth mid so that it can take advantage of these beauties? Right now, the absolution's three mids are already spoken for in any viable PvP setup that I can come up with.



This is why people need to calm down about this module.

It is not trivial to fit one of these.

Dedicating two midslots to propulsion is extremely difficult, especially considering that you're essentially fitting two MWD's worht of PG and CPU. This is where the balance happens. An Absolution could either dual prop or only fit the MJD. I would probably rely on my projection with lasers and only fit a MJD but this would not be particularly fun.

All the other BC's and CS's suffer similarly and must make large sacrifices in utility and ability to get the MJD fitted whilst retaining the MWD.

Draco Knight wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:

It's so hilarious seeing you trying to sound like you're doing this "for the good of the game" when you actually mean "fck, there'll be some targets my running away ship might not be able to kill without impunity". Your tears are better than the average whining carebear's.

It is funny how lesser skilled pvp'ers believe kiting is getaway tactic, when it actually enables you to stay on grid and fight much longer, often in hostile territory, vastly outnumbered. There should be more to pvp in eve than hitting approach and apply scram+web, waiting for the rock, paper, scissor outcome. Kiting actually takes player skills to master.

Introducing more teleporting gameplay with point and bubble immunity, is a servere nerf to pvp in eve.


I fail to see why you think hitting orbit/keep at range against a lone BC and kiting till he dies when he has absolutely no chance of doing anything to you is any different or requires more skill than brawling.
MaraudR73
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#665 - 2014-05-22 11:26:32 UTC
Yes, this whole MMJD is a nerf to warpdisruptors and solo kiting and small kiting gangs.....

NO to MMJD

Or at least drop the range on MMJD to 75km
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#666 - 2014-05-22 11:37:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Draco Knight wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:

It's so hilarious seeing you trying to sound like you're doing this "for the good of the game" when you actually mean "fck, there'll be some targets my running away ship might not be able to kill without impunity". Your tears are better than the average whining carebear's.

It is funny how lesser skilled pvp'ers believe kiting is getaway tactic, when it actually enables you to stay on grid and fight much longer, often in hostile territory, vastly outnumbered. There should be more to pvp in eve than hitting approach and apply scram+web, waiting for the rock, paper, scissor outcome. Kiting actually takes player skills to master.

Introducing more teleporting gameplay with point and bubble immunity, is a servere nerf to pvp in eve.



You realise that kiting at 20km is the same as "running away from that guy", right? Your kiting and projected dps is the paper to a scram fit ship's Rock. Stop thinking that you're some sort of special snowflake just because you learned there's slightly more to pvp than hitting approach. You're not special, you're not amazing and you ARE running, the whole time. THAT'S WHAT KITING IS.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#667 - 2014-05-22 13:41:26 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Maraner wrote:
Alec Freeman wrote:
Errr... This is a terrible idea on all ships except the Deep Space Transport. The MJD is an anti PvP device. I would only deem it acceptable on a BS because of there **** mobility but on a cane which is also able to travel at 2k m/s. This is ****.



No its a pro pvp module. It will let us engage ships that kite. It will force people to close and scram that want to tackle - and in turn get scrammed back.

It should ideally bring a return to combat BC fleets and perhaps even mixed fleets of BS and BC. If you cant scram someone in the spool up time of the MJD they are getting away for sure however there are far more pernicious ways to avoid gate camps - the jump align cloak warp f-ckery that has gone on for years for example.

Most BCs want if not actually NEED to close to close range for pew pew. The MJD will hopefully see an end to risk free setups like ishtars and some beam platforms, even the 1400mm nado fleets APOC fleets etc etc. It will let a bunch of club wielding thugs close to point back range and drop the smack.

Yes people will use them to avoid fights at times, but I suspect the module will cause more pvp than it reduces.



Not it will not allow that. Now kite ships wil just INGORE the BC move away and there will be LESS PVP.


I simply dont understand the argument as to how this will let you engage kiters. If a kiter wants to keep you on the field they have to engage in point range. The 100km mmjd will not help you get closer to a kiter in point range - rather all it will do is let you leave. If the kiter is outside of point range say 25km to 80km, then the mmjd is still not going to allow you to get close enough to brawl as it will put you significantly beyond the kiter, allowing the kiter to continue kiting.

Ofc if the mmjd is implemented then kiters will not be able to hold any cbc or bs on the field outside of scram range and if the kiter gets into scram range then he is within web range. Hence, its not just a nerf to kiting, rather kiting becomes no longer viable against cbc or bs. So as I see it, with the mmjd fights against bs or cbc must start at 0 or they dont start at all. We swing bats at each other until one of us goes down. And who loses is largely preordained because of the rock, paper, scissor nature of the game. All in all the mmjd is a big hit to the idea that eve is player "skilled" game.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#668 - 2014-05-22 13:43:43 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Draco Knight wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:

It's so hilarious seeing you trying to sound like you're doing this "for the good of the game" when you actually mean "fck, there'll be some targets my running away ship might not be able to kill without impunity". Your tears are better than the average whining carebear's.

It is funny how lesser skilled pvp'ers believe kiting is getaway tactic, when it actually enables you to stay on grid and fight much longer, often in hostile territory, vastly outnumbered. There should be more to pvp in eve than hitting approach and apply scram+web, waiting for the rock, paper, scissor outcome. Kiting actually takes player skills to master.

Introducing more teleporting gameplay with point and bubble immunity, is a servere nerf to pvp in eve.



You realise that kiting at 20km is the same as "running away from that guy", right? Your kiting and projected dps is the paper to a scram fit ship's Rock. Stop thinking that you're some sort of special snowflake just because you learned there's slightly more to pvp than hitting approach. You're not special, you're not amazing and you ARE running, the whole time. THAT'S WHAT KITING IS.


So whats the answer? Remove paper as an option? We now all rock all the time?!?

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#669 - 2014-05-22 13:51:30 UTC
Okay. I'm going to say it once again for those that don't want to listen.


FITTING A MJD IS NOT A TRIVIAL MATTER. IT IS DIFFICULT. IT REMOVES A FAIR CHUNK OF THE SHIPS UTILITY/TANK/DPS. SO MUCH SO THAT IT'S NOT TOO HARD TO EXPECT THAT THIS WILL NOT BE A "MUST HAVE FITTED" MODULE. TO THAT END. KITERS WILL STILL KILL BC's NOT SPORTING AN MJD BUT WILL STRUGGLE TO KEEP A BC FITTED WITH A MJD FROM ESCAPING

This is not an issue. Period. Full stop. End of conversation.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#670 - 2014-05-22 13:51:49 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Draco Knight wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:

It's so hilarious seeing you trying to sound like you're doing this "for the good of the game" when you actually mean "fck, there'll be some targets my running away ship might not be able to kill without impunity". Your tears are better than the average whining carebear's.

It is funny how lesser skilled pvp'ers believe kiting is getaway tactic, when it actually enables you to stay on grid and fight much longer, often in hostile territory, vastly outnumbered. There should be more to pvp in eve than hitting approach and apply scram+web, waiting for the rock, paper, scissor outcome. Kiting actually takes player skills to master.

Introducing more teleporting gameplay with point and bubble immunity, is a servere nerf to pvp in eve.



You realise that kiting at 20km is the same as "running away from that guy", right? Your kiting and projected dps is the paper to a scram fit ship's Rock. Stop thinking that you're some sort of special snowflake just because you learned there's slightly more to pvp than hitting approach. You're not special, you're not amazing and you ARE running, the whole time. THAT'S WHAT KITING IS.


So whats the answer? Remove paper as an option? We now all rock all the time?!?



HOLY CRAP, THERE'S ONE SHIP TYPE (that's hardly used) THAT CAN EVADE YOUR "SUPERIOR" KITING, BETTER POST ABOUT HOW KITING NOW IS 100% USELESS!
Orla- King-Griffin
#671 - 2014-05-22 13:57:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Orla- King-Griffin
LOUD NOISES!

seriously, these things should be fun.

Ah shite...
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#672 - 2014-05-22 14:09:42 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Draco Knight wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:

It's so hilarious seeing you trying to sound like you're doing this "for the good of the game" when you actually mean "fck, there'll be some targets my running away ship might not be able to kill without impunity". Your tears are better than the average whining carebear's.

It is funny how lesser skilled pvp'ers believe kiting is getaway tactic, when it actually enables you to stay on grid and fight much longer, often in hostile territory, vastly outnumbered. There should be more to pvp in eve than hitting approach and apply scram+web, waiting for the rock, paper, scissor outcome. Kiting actually takes player skills to master.

Introducing more teleporting gameplay with point and bubble immunity, is a servere nerf to pvp in eve.



You realise that kiting at 20km is the same as "running away from that guy", right? Your kiting and projected dps is the paper to a scram fit ship's Rock. Stop thinking that you're some sort of special snowflake just because you learned there's slightly more to pvp than hitting approach. You're not special, you're not amazing and you ARE running, the whole time. THAT'S WHAT KITING IS.


So whats the answer? Remove paper as an option? We now all rock all the time?!?



HOLY CRAP, THERE'S ONE SHIP TYPE (that's hardly used) THAT CAN EVADE YOUR "SUPERIOR" KITING, BETTER POST ABOUT HOW KITING NOW IS 100% USELESS!


I GUESS BECAUSE I TYPE IN CAPS THAT MAKES ME RIGHT? AMIRITE?!? CCP has said that they intend to or at least are considering adding the mjd for other ship types including ABCs. So yea, the discussion of how this is a nerf to kiting and the long point is relevant.. Beyond that - its already hard to find fights in this game - why add any mechanic that reduces the chance of pvp more then what we already got?

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#673 - 2014-05-22 14:12:47 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Okay. I'm going to say it once again for those that don't want to listen.


FITTING A MJD IS NOT A TRIVIAL MATTER. IT IS DIFFICULT. IT REMOVES A FAIR CHUNK OF THE SHIPS UTILITY/TANK/DPS. SO MUCH SO THAT IT'S NOT TOO HARD TO EXPECT THAT THIS WILL NOT BE A "MUST HAVE FITTED" MODULE. TO THAT END. KITERS WILL STILL KILL BC's NOT SPORTING AN MJD BUT WILL STRUGGLE TO KEEP A BC FITTED WITH A MJD FROM ESCAPING

This is not an issue. Period. Full stop. End of conversation.


Its funny the MJD seems to be a "must fitted" mod on bs now, despite the fitting issues. Dont see any good reason why that would change with the BCs. People value the ability to gtfo. So they will sacrifice where necessary to include the mjd.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#674 - 2014-05-22 14:27:27 UTC
Has there been any mentioning of a mmjd on a proper prop subbed t3 yet?

Quite obviously not revamping t3s to also mount these things would be offensive ;)

Ab-sub, nullification, warp speed and mmjd, that would be a tough choice.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#675 - 2014-05-22 14:31:27 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
[
It's so hilarious seeing you trying to sound like you're doing this "for the good of the game" when you actually mean "fck, there'll be some targets my running away ship might not be able to kill without impunity". Your tears are better than the average whining carebear's.


It is hilarious how you think you have a clue about kiting and small scale PVP.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#676 - 2014-05-22 14:32:49 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Maraner wrote:
Alec Freeman wrote:
Errr... This is a terrible idea on all ships except the Deep Space Transport. The MJD is an anti PvP device. I would only deem it acceptable on a BS because of there **** mobility but on a cane which is also able to travel at 2k m/s. This is ****.



No its a pro pvp module. It will let us engage ships that kite. It will force people to close and scram that want to tackle - and in turn get scrammed back.

It should ideally bring a return to combat BC fleets and perhaps even mixed fleets of BS and BC. If you cant scram someone in the spool up time of the MJD they are getting away for sure however there are far more pernicious ways to avoid gate camps - the jump align cloak warp f-ckery that has gone on for years for example.

Most BCs want if not actually NEED to close to close range for pew pew. The MJD will hopefully see an end to risk free setups like ishtars and some beam platforms, even the 1400mm nado fleets APOC fleets etc etc. It will let a bunch of club wielding thugs close to point back range and drop the smack.

Yes people will use them to avoid fights at times, but I suspect the module will cause more pvp than it reduces.



Not it will not allow that. Now kite ships wil just INGORE the BC move away and there will be LESS PVP.


I simply dont understand the argument as to how this will let you engage kiters. If a kiter wants to keep you on the field they have to engage in point range. The 100km mmjd will not help you get closer to a kiter in point range - rather all it will do is let you leave. If the kiter is outside of point range say 25km to 80km, then the mmjd is still not going to allow you to get close enough to brawl as it will put you significantly beyond the kiter, allowing the kiter to continue kiting.

Ofc if the mmjd is implemented then kiters will not be able to hold any cbc or bs on the field outside of scram range and if the kiter gets into scram range then he is within web range. Hence, its not just a nerf to kiting, rather kiting becomes no longer viable against cbc or bs. So as I see it, with the mmjd fights against bs or cbc must start at 0 or they dont start at all. We swing bats at each other until one of us goes down. And who loses is largely preordained because of the rock, paper, scissor nature of the game. All in all the mmjd is a big hit to the idea that eve is player "skilled" game.


Seems you misquoted.. because you are sayign the same I did.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#677 - 2014-05-22 14:42:21 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Maraner wrote:
Alec Freeman wrote:
Errr... This is a terrible idea on all ships except the Deep Space Transport. The MJD is an anti PvP device. I would only deem it acceptable on a BS because of there **** mobility but on a cane which is also able to travel at 2k m/s. This is ****.



No its a pro pvp module. It will let us engage ships that kite. It will force people to close and scram that want to tackle - and in turn get scrammed back.

It should ideally bring a return to combat BC fleets and perhaps even mixed fleets of BS and BC. If you cant scram someone in the spool up time of the MJD they are getting away for sure however there are far more pernicious ways to avoid gate camps - the jump align cloak warp f-ckery that has gone on for years for example.

Most BCs want if not actually NEED to close to close range for pew pew. The MJD will hopefully see an end to risk free setups like ishtars and some beam platforms, even the 1400mm nado fleets APOC fleets etc etc. It will let a bunch of club wielding thugs close to point back range and drop the smack.

Yes people will use them to avoid fights at times, but I suspect the module will cause more pvp than it reduces.



Not it will not allow that. Now kite ships wil just INGORE the BC move away and there will be LESS PVP.


I simply dont understand the argument as to how this will let you engage kiters. If a kiter wants to keep you on the field they have to engage in point range. The 100km mmjd will not help you get closer to a kiter in point range - rather all it will do is let you leave. If the kiter is outside of point range say 25km to 80km, then the mmjd is still not going to allow you to get close enough to brawl as it will put you significantly beyond the kiter, allowing the kiter to continue kiting.

Ofc if the mmjd is implemented then kiters will not be able to hold any cbc or bs on the field outside of scram range and if the kiter gets into scram range then he is within web range. Hence, its not just a nerf to kiting, rather kiting becomes no longer viable against cbc or bs. So as I see it, with the mmjd fights against bs or cbc must start at 0 or they dont start at all. We swing bats at each other until one of us goes down. And who loses is largely preordained because of the rock, paper, scissor nature of the game. All in all the mmjd is a big hit to the idea that eve is player "skilled" game.


Seems you misquoted.. because you are sayign the same I did.


I guess I should have started with that it was my intention to underline that i was agreeing with you.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#678 - 2014-05-22 16:23:17 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
[
It's so hilarious seeing you trying to sound like you're doing this "for the good of the game" when you actually mean "fck, there'll be some targets my running away ship might not be able to kill without impunity". Your tears are better than the average whining carebear's.


It is hilarious how you think you have a clue about kiting and small scale PVP.


I do, I'm just not a hyperboling biased hypocrite about it.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#679 - 2014-05-22 16:53:59 UTC
Looking forward to bouncing off a mobile jump platform while spooling up mmjd.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#680 - 2014-05-22 19:38:32 UTC
It simply come to pass that the "Rock" method now has a "Skipping Stone" option that may occasionally come into play.

Kitting vessels really should understand the value of long range scram capable team mates when facing adversaries that might be able to MJD away.

Getting kills when kiting depends on one of three things happening.

1: Your target is stupid and underestimates your damage, and does not warp away in time.
2: You have a longer point range (either disruptor or scram) than your target.
3: Your target does not have either the range or the tracking (or both) to deal effective damage to you at your chosen engagement range.

The odds of these things happening will change slightly now when dealing with BC's, just as they changed somewhat with BS before them. Somehow kiting has remained a viable option.

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