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[Kronos] Blockade Runner Rebalance

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#261 - 2014-05-20 01:58:46 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
So, leaving the rolled homogeneous ships aside, the minniie ship is not the lightest and fastest anymore?

This makes negative amount of sense.

How about giving it the least max capacity (less than 12K aka 4 giant secure conts with max cargo fit), but returning the proper mass and agility?


I'd like to see more variety in terms of cargo capacity (favouring Caldari) vs tank (favouring Amarr) vs agility (favouring Minmatar). Gallente are sort of a mid point in that triangle. The Minmatar BR should be the most agile with highest warp speed, with the least capacity (thus it would be favoured by drug runners, and useless to cruiser smugglers) while the Caldari BR should have the greatest capacity, focus on shield buffer as far as tank goes (tank on a BR? LOL) with the Amarr and Gallente about even on capacity, with Amarr focussed on straight line speed and Gallente tending towards agility.

Capacity would be in the range of the current 3000 (still useful for L3 distribution missions) for the smallest, up to 4500 for the largest, with weight in the range of 10–11Mkg, align time differing by a second or two.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
#262 - 2014-05-20 01:58:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


And how do we spy on the hundreds of thousands of pilots in high sec and read their minds?


You're with a creative bunch, I'm sure you'll figure out a way.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven.
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#263 - 2014-05-20 01:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Myrthiis
"baltec1 " wrote:
There are no clues to what is inside the hold of any ship based on their fittings.

Randomly ganking blocade runners and hoping you get lucky will always end in the ganker losing all their isk.


A BR cost 100 M + 40 M with T2 rigs .A catalyst fitted cost 2 M you ll probably need two maybe three of these to blow it up .
Thats is a serious lose streak before getting unprofitable .
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#264 - 2014-05-20 02:00:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
There are no clues to what is inside the hold of any ship based on their fittings.

Randomly ganking blocade runners and hoping you get lucky will always end in the ganker losing all their isk.


That depends your your profit from the really juicy ones, really. Scanning the fit will at least give you some idea which are the easiest nuts to crack.

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Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#265 - 2014-05-20 02:03:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Myrthiis
Mara Rinn wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
There are no clues to what is inside the hold of any ship based on their fittings.

Randomly ganking blocade runners and hoping you get lucky will always end in the ganker losing all their isk.


That depends your your profit from the really juicy ones, really. Scanning the fit will at least give you some idea which are the easiest nuts to crack.

they are all easy nuts to crack none will have more than 15 k ehp meaning 2 catalyst in 0.6. And they have all nasty hole in their shield except prowler ,so swapping ammo before engagement make them even more weak.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#266 - 2014-05-20 02:05:26 UTC
Myrthiis wrote:
"baltec1 " wrote:
There are no clues to what is inside the hold of any ship based on their fittings.

Randomly ganking blocade runners and hoping you get lucky will always end in the ganker losing all their isk.


A BR cost 100 M + 40 M with T2 rigs .A catalyst fitted cost 2 M you ll probably need two maybe three of these to blow it up .
Thats is a serious lose streak before getting unprofitable .


Please tell us where you get your 2 mil T2 cats from. Also the cost of a blockade runner and its rigs means nothing.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#267 - 2014-05-20 02:08:33 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
There are no clues to what is inside the hold of any ship based on their fittings.

Randomly ganking blocade runners and hoping you get lucky will always end in the ganker losing all their isk.


That depends your your profit from the really juicy ones, really. Scanning the fit will at least give you some idea which are the easiest nuts to crack.


No, it doesnt depend. You will lose if you go and randomly gank blockade runners.You also gain zero intel on cargo from looking at a ships fittings.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#268 - 2014-05-20 02:10:35 UTC
Why is the Prowler not the fastest aligning?

I love the T2 resists, very nice. 10K m3 cargo capacity is also cool, means you can haul 2 large gun batteries to your pos in one go.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Cade Windstalker
#269 - 2014-05-20 02:56:58 UTC
I don't get why everyone is suddenly surprised at the align time on the Prowler. It's not like this is some new thing they just introduced, they didn't touch the align times.

The Prowler has an absolutely tiny sig though, which is a bigger bonus than 8 seconds worth of align time >.>
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#270 - 2014-05-20 03:09:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Myrthiis wrote:
"baltec1 " wrote:
There are no clues to what is inside the hold of any ship based on their fittings.

Randomly ganking blocade runners and hoping you get lucky will always end in the ganker losing all their isk.


A BR cost 100 M + 40 M with T2 rigs .A catalyst fitted cost 2 M you ll probably need two maybe three of these to blow it up .
Thats is a serious lose streak before getting unprofitable .


Please tell us where you get your 2 mil T2 cats from. Also the cost of a blockade runner and its rigs means nothing.

Honnestly i'm dissapointed ,you know very well than the cost of t1 cats is 2 M.And you perfectly know than 2 t1 cats would be enought to blow a Blockade runner in a 0.7 system .
So please be honnest there is absolutly not a chance that you would'nt be profitable ganking BR even blind and tied. The cargo value is comprised between 100 M and 2 B thats a ratio of 10 to 100 lost Cats even t2 before being unprofitable Roll
So there is no relation between scannability and profitability ....
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#271 - 2014-05-20 03:22:57 UTC
Myrthiis wrote:
So please be honnest there is absolutly not a chance that you would'nt be profitable ganking BR even blind and tied. The cargo value is comprised between 100 M and 2 B thats a ratio of 10 to 100 lost Cats even t2 before being unprofitable Roll
So there is no relation between scannability and profitability ....


It's not like scanning cargo is infinitely more useful as a means of gathering intel about which pilots are alts or contractors for CFC enemies.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#272 - 2014-05-20 03:30:54 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
I don't get why everyone is suddenly surprised at the align time on the Prowler. It's not like this is some new thing they just introduced, they didn't touch the align times.

The Prowler has an absolutely tiny sig though, which is a bigger bonus than 8 seconds worth of align time >.>

They did change the align time by increasing the mass but its barely noticeable as Prowler Viator and Prorator will have a 5s align time with a nano .
About the sig radius it not relevant as you should be cloacked before locking,and the difference in sig radius between the four hulls isn't that big anyway at least not in a noticeable way when targeting one of them.
Alexis Nightwish
#273 - 2014-05-20 05:21:02 UTC
Okay... so the BRs are my favorite industrials, and the Prowler and Prorator my favorites of them so this will be a little biased....

CCP, why are you, in comparison to the Crane and Viator, nerfing the Prorator and especially the Prowler? Or to put it another way, why are you buffing the Crane and Viator so much, and nerfing the Prowler?

I'll back this up with some numbers.

_________________Prorator_____Crane_____Viator_____Prowler
cargo % increase___13.79%_____18.60%____16.67%____7.14%
mass % change_____0.00%_____-4.55%_____-11.50%___+10.31%


So while BRs getting a small buff is good I guess (I thought they were fine TBH), I don't like how the Prowler, which had a niche as the most agile BR and capable of mounting a cyno or probe launcher with its cloak is now the worst choice for any role, niche or otherwise. The Prorator can at least get its cargo up through its low slots since it has 4, but honestly, the Viator and the Crane are simply going to be the best since their cargo to align time ratio will be the strongest and they'll be able to do everything the Prowler can in addition.

My suggestion is to remove the mass nerf to the Prowler (the Minmatar ship will be the most massive, seriously?) and give it a 3rd high instead of the extra low, and enough CPU to run the cyno and probe launcher with standard set of modules w/o the need for CPU rigs (all skills at V). Additionally, give the Prorator a little more cargo, like +100 more for an even 3000, and remove the mass buffs from the Crane and Viator (as in leave them at their original mass of 11,500,000).

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#274 - 2014-05-20 05:30:45 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:

, and enough CPU to run the cyno and probe launcher with standard set of modules w/o the need for CPU rigs (all skills at V).

This is not really necessary. Just offline MWD and online cyno when needed. I always do this on covops frigs and bombers. No need to keep covops cyno constantly online. Also you won't die to a missclick this way.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#275 - 2014-05-20 05:46:00 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
Okay... so the BRs are my favorite industrials, and the Prowler and Prorator my favorites of them so this will be a little biased....

CCP, why are you, in comparison to the Crane and Viator, nerfing the Prorator and especially the Prowler? Or to put it another way, why are you buffing the Crane and Viator so much, and nerfing the Prowler?

I'll back this up with some numbers.

_________________Prorator_____Crane_____Viator_____Prowler
cargo % increase___13.79%_____18.60%____16.67%____7.14%
mass % change_____0.00%_____-4.55%_____-11.50%___+10.31%


So while BRs getting a small buff is good I guess (I thought they were fine TBH), I don't like how the Prowler, which had a niche as the most agile BR and capable of mounting a cyno or probe launcher with its cloak is now the worst choice for any role, niche or otherwise. The Prorator can at least get its cargo up through its low slots since it has 4, but honestly, the Viator and the Crane are simply going to be the best since their cargo to align time ratio will be the strongest and they'll be able to do everything the Prowler can in addition.

My suggestion is to remove the mass nerf to the Prowler (the Minmatar ship will be the most massive, seriously?) and give it a 3rd high instead of the extra low, and enough CPU to run the cyno and probe launcher with standard set of modules w/o the need for CPU rigs (all skills at V). Additionally, give the Prorator a little more cargo, like +100 more for an even 3000, and remove the mass buffs from the Crane and Viator (as in leave them at their original mass of 11,500,000).

prowler got bonus in agility to offset mass
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#276 - 2014-05-20 09:28:25 UTC
Will we see sticky "[Kronos] Ishtar "rebalance"" anytime soon? Because it really, really needs some.

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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#277 - 2014-05-20 09:35:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Myrthiis wrote:
.they are all easy nuts to crack none will have more than 15 k ehp meaning 2 catalyst in 0.6. And they have all nasty hole in their shield except prowler ,so swapping ammo before engagement make them even more weak.


Autocannon Catalysts, right? Shocked
Hulemand
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#278 - 2014-05-20 09:46:14 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Highlights are:
  • They all now have two highslots for a probe launcher or covert cyno alongside the cloak. The Prowler gets a third low.
  • A pretty significant cargohold increase across the whole line. They still have significantly less max cargo than any of the T1 haulers, but they can now all break the 10k threshold with T1 rigs.





Let us know what you think!


Hurray! The Crane is now the best choice! Why? Because it will have to use the least cargo expanders to hit maximum cargo hold making it by far the fastest of the four! *clap clap clap*

Admiral Hulemand Core Operations Overseer
Jattila Vrek
Green Visstick High
#279 - 2014-05-20 10:13:54 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
Okay... so the BRs are my favorite industrials, and the Prowler and Prorator my favorites of them so this will be a little biased....

CCP, why are you, in comparison to the Crane and Viator, nerfing the Prorator and especially the Prowler? Or to put it another way, why are you buffing the Crane and Viator so much, and nerfing the Prowler?

I'll back this up with some numbers.

_________________Prorator_____Crane_____Viator_____Prowler
cargo % increase___13.79%_____18.60%____16.67%____7.14%
mass % change_____0.00%_____-4.55%_____-11.50%___+10.31%


So while BRs getting a small buff is good I guess (I thought they were fine TBH), I don't like how the Prowler, which had a niche as the most agile BR and capable of mounting a cyno or probe launcher with its cloak is now the worst choice for any role, niche or otherwise. The Prorator can at least get its cargo up through its low slots since it has 4, but honestly, the Viator and the Crane are simply going to be the best since their cargo to align time ratio will be the strongest and they'll be able to do everything the Prowler can in addition.

My suggestion is to remove the mass nerf to the Prowler (the Minmatar ship will be the most massive, seriously?) and give it a 3rd high instead of the extra low, and enough CPU to run the cyno and probe launcher with standard set of modules w/o the need for CPU rigs (all skills at V). Additionally, give the Prorator a little more cargo, like +100 more for an even 3000, and remove the mass buffs from the Crane and Viator (as in leave them at their original mass of 11,500,000).

prowler got bonus in agility to offset mass

And it received an extra lowslot.
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#280 - 2014-05-20 10:41:15 UTC
Pretty surreal.

Again, Minmatar nerf. You stole its agility - I can take the cargo being lower, but its nerfed to crap.

These are more or less homogenized to death. Is there any point to having separate racial traits of these - just make one generic blockade runner, and one generic DST for that matter.

They were two sets of ships where I trained alternates to do different things.

Another nice trait would be npc cargo scanning immunity - lowers chance per level - making it worthwhile to train.

Come on CCP - this is so weak.
Something to diversify. The Prowler was agile and quick, now its lump of crap. The Viator gets to be the prowler.

Per Transport Level:
Agility for Prowler
Speed for Viator
Warp speed for Prorator
ECM burst strength Crane

Its the saddest thing, as I seem to bleat on about being Minmatar oriented, but their ship line is getting crapped on all over.