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[Kronos] Factional Warfare Complex Improvements

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spoon Nardieu
Pyke Syndicate
Solyaris Chtonium
#401 - 2014-05-19 02:29:07 UTC
Sometimes, things start off as a good idea, and things do not work as intended, so a fix is implemented, and not quite as intended. ...........etc etc

Sometimes one needs to ignore the complication and get back to basics.

1. Plexes of different sizes.

2. Only faction warriors admitted. Gate guns on entrance fire on any ships attempting to camp the entrance. You have thirty seconds.....ED 209
(Arrive , check , decide, enter or warp away)

3. Only one of each war faction allowed in novice small and medium. Large open.

4. Gate is now permanently closed and Combat occurs.
( Once combat commences, if Player warps off, player loses plex.)

5. Winner wins the plex, and worthwhile rewards, 1.5x defeated ship kill value plus LP.
( If there is No kill then a reduced reward. But plex awarded to faction.)

Plex is now complete and despawns. System control updated.

Note:- No OGB and no cloaking in plex

No farming, no rats, no buttons, no complications.


Edit:- to prevent alt farming no entry to a plex where you have killed that "enemy" character in the last 8 hours.

Fozzie, if you wish to test the concept along with current mechanic, both could exist concurrently, as Combat Plexes.

Conclusion:- an opportunity for true, 1V1 PvP without complication.
It will increase the interest in and opportunity, of non Gank related PvP.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

This might be a little to risk adverse when it comes to neutrals. I don't think restricting plexes to only faction warfare plexes is the answer. Maybe what was said before making pvp more profitable to faction warfare pilots might make more content in the war zones. Lower LP for plexing and raise it for pvp related activities..
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#402 - 2014-05-19 02:29:09 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:

Some of you may ask why I, a 0.0 player, care about what happens in FW?

One, I believe in the butterfly effect. Things that happen in one part of Eve affect everywhere else.

Two, interaction is what creates retention for Eve players. Interactions need not always be mutually beneficial, but they should add excitement to Eve. The current interactions with semi-AFK, low-SP alts is not really that exciting or rewarding, for either party. This means they are fundamentally unhealthy for Eve.

Three, I used to be involved in FW, but it just didn't stick for me.

Four, almost everyone I personally know who is involved in FW is involved via a low-SP alt doing the semi-AFK thing to make ISK. When people who occupy some of the richest, most remote parts of space find it less risky and more lucrative to do FW then something is seriously out-of-whack.

So much this. I wish there were more nullsec residents like you.

I disagree with the ESS / warp bubble thing, because if that mechanic existed we'd be too much like nullsec bubble campers. Noone would bother with points, and noone would use implants. I like the fact that FW pilots are forced to do the hard work of manually piloting their ships and tackling their targets, rather than relying on bubble mechanics. It forces us to be more involved and active. Those are good things.

Pilots throwing billions into full Snake / Slave sets with mindlinked off-grid boosters are sinking serious isk into keeping up killboard efficiency against 2-10mil isk frigates. They're annoying, but have no real impact on the warzone, so whatever. And when you do manage to trap them and lock them down, taking your time to get your friend in the smartbombing cruiser right up next to them before popping their ship... oh, so so priceless.

I do agree that FW as a PvE endeavor is seriously out of whack right now in terms of risk vs. reward. These plex changes are definitely a step in the right direction. I can't wait for the mission balance pass, and all the tears that will harvest. I'm building T2 buckets in anticipation.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#403 - 2014-05-19 02:30:49 UTC
spoon Nardieu wrote:
This might be a little to risk adverse when it comes to neutrals. I don't think restricting plexes to only faction warfare plexes is the answer. Maybe what was said before making pvp more profitable to faction warfare pilots might make more content in the war zones. Lower LP for plexing and raise it for pvp related activities..

I agree. I don't want FW to become some sort of 1v1 Thunderdome. Especially because I rather enjoy our fleet fights inside of plexes when folks are really pushing a system.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#404 - 2014-05-19 03:07:11 UTC
spoon Nardieu wrote:
Sometimes, things start off as a good idea, and things do not work as intended, so a fix is implemented, and not quite as intended. ...........etc etc

Sometimes one needs to ignore the complication and get back to basics.

1. Plexes of different sizes.

2. Only faction warriors admitted. Gate guns on entrance fire on any ships attempting to camp the entrance. You have thirty seconds.....ED 209
(Arrive , check , decide, enter or warp away)

3. Only one of each war faction allowed in novice small and medium. Large open.

4. Gate is now permanently closed and Combat occurs.
( Once combat commences, if Player warps off, player loses plex.)

5. Winner wins the plex, and worthwhile rewards, 1.5x defeated ship kill value plus LP.
( If there is No kill then a reduced reward. But plex awarded to faction.)

Plex is now complete and despawns. System control updated.

Note:- No OGB and no cloaking in plex

No farming, no rats, no buttons, no complications.


Edit:- to prevent alt farming no entry to a plex where you have killed that "enemy" character in the last 8 hours.

Fozzie, if you wish to test the concept along with current mechanic, both could exist concurrently, as Combat Plexes.

Conclusion:- an opportunity for true, 1V1 PvP without complication.
It will increase the interest in and opportunity, of non Gank related PvP.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

This might be a little to risk adverse when it comes to neutrals. I don't think restricting plexes to only faction warfare plexes is the answer. Maybe what was said before making pvp more profitable to faction warfare pilots might make more content in the war zones. Lower LP for plexing and raise it for pvp related activities..

1. yES

everything else. **** NO

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
spoon Nardieu
Pyke Syndicate
Solyaris Chtonium
#405 - 2014-05-19 03:20:31 UTC
It appears that some faction warfare pilots want neutrals not to have access to their plexes. Which in turn makes farming/plexing much safer. I think we can all agree, if there were no pirates in FW space it would not be as fun. Everyone thinks that pirates only do ganks/blobs, and whatever else. When in most cases most of us just want fights, good fights, bad fights, or whatever. I really only want fights, whether it be afk plexer or legit good fight. The human element will always prevail no matter how much we want to put rules in place to control the masses. No matter what CCP does people will still find a way to make easy isk, be risk adverse, do things solo, or only do things in groups/solo. This is the human element that will always find its way around certain rules or limitations set in place.

So that being said, some things will change but for the most part everything will stay the same. Fleet comps, and fittings may change slightly, but nothing else will change.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#406 - 2014-05-19 03:46:10 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
. IF im not mistaken, more than one point = no mwd, so, if you approach an open plex, be wary.


Have these situations been taken into account?


Only a scram shuts down the MWD. Any number of points, including an infinite point, has no effect on the MWD or MJD.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#407 - 2014-05-19 09:20:51 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Sometimes, things start off as a good idea, and things do not work as intended, so a fix is implemented, and not quite as intended. ...........etc etc

Sometimes one needs to ignore the complication and get back to basics.

1. Plexes of different sizes.

2. Only faction warriors admitted. Gate guns on entrance fire on any ships attempting to camp the entrance. You have thirty seconds.....ED 209Big smileShocked
(Arrive , check , decide, enter or warp away)

3. Only one of each war faction allowed in novice small and medium. Large open.

4. Gate is now permanently closed and Combat occurs.
( Once combat commences, if Player warps off, player loses plex.)

5. Winner wins the plex, and worthwhile rewards, 1.5x defeated ship kill value plus LP.
( If there is No kill then a reduced reward. But plex awarded to faction.)

Plex is now complete and despawns. System control updated.

Note:- No OGB and no cloaking in plex

No farming, no rats, no buttons, no complications.Big smile


Edit:- to prevent alt farming no entry to a plex where you have killed that "enemy" character in the last 8 hours.

Fozzie, if you wish to test the concept along with current mechanic, both could exist concurrently, as Combat Plexes.

Conclusion:- an opportunity for true, 1V1 PvP without complication.
It will increase the interest in and opportunity, of non Gank related PvP.

This sort of 'instanced fight' already exists: it is called RvB. Please remember this is lowsec we are talking about.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#408 - 2014-05-19 11:03:04 UTC
Actually, if it isn't too much work could we please have a chance for some structures (large collidable objects) to spawn in plexes make things a bit more interesting? I always enjoy messing with people's orbits when these are around. They are also useful in splitting small gangs if they are incompetent.

It would just add another fun variable.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#409 - 2014-05-19 11:53:33 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Actually, if it isn't too much work could we please have a chance for some structures (large collidable objects) to spawn in plexes make things a bit more interesting? I always enjoy messing with people's orbits when these are around. They are also useful in splitting small gangs if they are incompetent.

It would just add another fun variable.

Not sure it's worth the additional work to make that happen, given the marginal gain. But I've definitely seen a lot worse ideas in this thread.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#410 - 2014-05-19 12:42:53 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:

I also disagree with you concerning the use of low security space as a stepping stone. FW should be a stepping stone for getting people more involved in the wider world of Eve - not a place for solo alts to farm LP. Any changes to FW complexes should encourage people to try fits that are viable in combat in order to get bacon, not fits that encourage solo, semi-AFK gameplay. Any fit that is fundamentally focused on avoiding combat at all costs should be anathema to FW.

Some of you may ask why I, a 0.0 player, care about what happens in FW?

One, I believe in the butterfly effect. Things that happen in one part of Eve affect everywhere else.

Two, interaction is what creates retention for Eve players. Interactions need not always be mutually beneficial, but they should add excitement to Eve. The current interactions with semi-AFK, low-SP alts is not really that exciting or rewarding, for either party. This means they are fundamentally unhealthy for Eve.

Three, I used to be involved in FW, but it just didn't stick for me.

Four, almost everyone I personally know who is involved in FW is involved via a low-SP alt doing the semi-AFK thing to make ISK. When people who occupy some of the richest, most remote parts of space find it less risky and more lucrative to do FW then something is seriously out-of-whack.



The upcoming changes to FW plexes will remove all but the most dedicated farmers as Stab fit T1 Frigates are going to find it more than a little difficult to kill the numerous Npc's that will spawn. My FW alt has just over 1 mil sp in Small Hybrid turrets and using the Stab fit i currently use on TQ with 130 Dps as a test on Sisi, I was unable to kill the Npc unless it was webbed and then it took more than a while to kill it (A Novice plex took a little under 3/4 of an hour to complete).

Bottom line IMO, post Kronos we can expect to see the price of faction items increase as plex farmers find they need to drastically change their habits or move on to other Eve careers.
This change is a direct boost to FW Plex Pvp, removal of cloaks will help balance things a little in the favour of plexers. The addition of extra Npc spawns with greater tanking ability goes a lot further to aiding Pvp than removing cloaks hinders it.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Silence Iganku
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#411 - 2014-05-19 17:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Silence Iganku
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello everyone. Those of you who were at the Fanfest FW roundtable heard a bit about some improvements to FW complexes that we have planned for Kronos. Time for some details!

We are making changes to three aspects of the FW complexes:

  • Cloaking prevention within capture range [/list]

    • I want to make it clear that these changes are intended to create a more interesting environment for FW plexing and to make pvp fits more competitive with "farming" fits




    NPC and Spawning Changes
    When we recreated the FW complexes in Retribution we removed the old waves of NPCs and replaced them with single spawning NPCs with extremely low DPS and active tanks. These NPCs are essentially intended to be dps tests that gently encourage use of combat fit ships for running the complexes without getting in the way of PVP. We actually wrote the initial design with the intention of having these NPCs respawn on a delay after they are killed, but some broken content tools forced us to shelve that design at that time.
    One of the content tools that Team Space Glitter made for the Ghost Sites in Rubicon actually fixes this hole so we are going ahead and returning to the original design for the Retribution FW NPCs.


    Cloaking prevention within capture range
    To help ensure balance around cloak use in FW complexes, we are disallowing cloaking within 30km of the capture point. This is achieved through an inert beacon with a 30km radius, so that when you are within capture range of the point you are also always 0km from an object.

    We received some requests at Fanfest to increase this radius farther, which we will consider after we have seen how this first change plays out. One of the advantages of using the 30km radius is that it will still be possible for a cloaking combat ship to sit 30km from the capture point in the direction of the warpin location and remain close enough to the warpin to make hunting viable.


    These are obviously not the only changes we could make to improve FW and they are not the only changes we want to make as we move forward, but we still believe that this package of complex improvements will benefit FW significantly.
    We look forward to hearing your feedback!



    yea so cover ops ships now are pointless: balance = nerf = make an entire classe of ships going out from FW pvp !!!

    good job the worst ever fanfest with the worst ever patch incoming for eve & dust.

    What is the point in doing this ???? make people killed by cover ships happy and stop crying ? why is more balanced in this way ??? why ???? You put out from the game these ships and then make new class full with low slot module... enjoy stab people enjoy and no onw will be able to block you no more hidden people waiting to you for kill you ... really understable... preparing to find another game to play
    Douglas Nolm
    Tribal Liberation Force
    Minmatar Republic
    #412 - 2014-05-19 20:06:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Douglas Nolm
    I've read a lot about nerfing pirates in this thread, and frankly, I don't agree with any of that. Pirates make life interesting. Sure I've sworn when I've been yarr blobbed and killed, and ranted on corp comms about pirates, but tbh, at least you know they'll fight!
    I think most of the FW fights I've had have pretty much been with the same Amarr members over and over again. Most of the time, if you warp into a plex with a pilot in it whose name you don't recognise, he'll turn out to be a stabbed/cloaky farmer.

    I think the easiest way to deter farmers, who are mostly alts of highsec/nullsec characters who pass all their isk to the main, is fourfold:
    1) timer rollbacks; yes, this will penalise people who have to leave to repair etc, but my next points should balance that out a bit, and in all honesty, I think most of the pilots in FW to fight find plexing boring anyway, and only do it when ISK is a bit low.

    2) adjust LP; more for killing FW enemies, less, lots less, for plexing. This would possibly ha e the added effect of reducing the number of LP in circulation too, therefore markets are likely to be a bit more stable.

    3) give PvP'ers a reason to go for system control; if LP for plexes is reduced, and LP for kills is increased, but not to the point where killing an alt is an attractive profitmaking device, the LP value of actually flipping a system could be increased dramatically. This would give an incentive to actually plex and then go for the hub, and I can see some vicious fights occurring over systems!

    4) as I said in my previous post get rid of missions! They don't affect the warzone, and are just a huge ISK faucet that somebody needs to turn off.
    Sgt Ocker
    What Corp is it
    #413 - 2014-05-20 00:34:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
    Veskrashen wrote:
    spoon Nardieu wrote:
    This might be a little to risk adverse when it comes to neutrals. I don't think restricting plexes to only faction warfare plexes is the answer. Maybe what was said before making pvp more profitable to faction warfare pilots might make more content in the war zones. Lower LP for plexing and raise it for pvp related activities..

    I agree. I don't want FW to become some sort of 1v1 Thunderdome. Especially because I rather enjoy our fleet fights inside of plexes when folks are really pushing a system.

    Hmmm 3 years on, I've never seen a "fleet fight" in a plex. I've seen a lot of 10 vs 1 and 15 vs 2, inside a plex but never anything remotely resembling a "fleet fight".

    The biggest problem with FW is - people want a mini Nulsec - Where more is better, the biggest fleet will always win.
    Where destroying some guys implants is considered the highlight of an encounter. That is not pvp and honestly with that attitude so prevalent is it any wonder there is such a huge "Stabbed Farmer" problem in FW.

    To the people who actively pvp in FW, who want stabs removed and the ability to covert cloak in a plex reinstated. I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.

    Q1; How often do you Pvp in FW space
    Q2; Do you Pvp in small gang, fleet or solo and which would you do most.
    Q3; How long have you been a member of FW, include switching factions.
    Q4; How long have you played Eve
    Q5; How do you support your FW pvp lifestyle
    Finally
    If stabs were blocked from entering plexes and you could use covert cloaks when entering camping plexes.
    Would you be prepared to;
    1; Should Stabs be removed from complexes and covert cloaking be allowed
    2; Run complexes to help your chosen faction flip systems
    3; Be happy to run those complexes 12 to 14 hours per day

    4> Would you be happy as a Pvp'r, to be able to fly around half of FW space and not see anyone to fight?

    I really don't expect anyone to answer these questions BUT if those who believe FW is only about PVP and more PVP read it and answer to themselves "honestly".. You may actually see the floor in your overall plan. The Final question is the most important and for those who can remember that far back, not unrealistic.

    FW used to be a place where solo and small gang players could have some impact and be a part of something bigger without having to join massive fleets to find PVP and be successful.
    Not any more, blob warfare is slowly killing Eve, FW is on the endangered list, Nulsec is at the top of the list.
    nb; a blob is any number where sheer numbers dictate the outcome. A blob of 10 vs 1 is just as bad as a blob of 1000.

    My opinions are mine.

      If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

    It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
    Vincintius Agrippa
    Crimson Serpent Syndicate
    #414 - 2014-05-20 01:40:04 UTC
    Sgt Ocker wrote:
    Veskrashen wrote:
    [quote=spoon Nardieu]This might be a little to risk adverse when it comes to neutrals. I don't think restricting plexes to only faction warfare plexes is the answer. Maybe what was said before making pvp more profitable to faction warfare pilots might make more content in the war zones. Lower LP for plexing and raise it for pvp related activities..

    I agree. I don't want FW to become some sort of 1v1 Thunderdome. Especially because I rather enjoy our fleet fights inside of plexes when folks are really pushing a system.

    Hmmm 3 years on, I've never seen a "fleet fight" in a plex. I've seen a lot of 10 vs 1 and 15 vs 2, inside a plex but never anything remotely resembling a "fleet fight".

    Which militia are you in? Can't be Calmil or Frogs, I've been in militia for a year and have been in over 85 in-plex fleet fights. And I havent even been that active over the past 5-6 months because of school. We fight both inside and outside of plexes. Why? no one can hotdrop us at plexes. Meaning no cynos. And believe me, we've been carrier dropped more than a few times. Fighting in plexes allows us to control the ships sizes we'll fight against, thus preventing us from being upshipped <------- A thing that has happened many, many, many times. And not just that, we fight in plexes when a system is about to be lost or taken.
    Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
    Yun Kuai
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #415 - 2014-05-20 05:47:22 UTC
    Sgt Ocker wrote:
    [quote=Veskrashen][quote=spoon Nardieu]\

    The biggest problem with FW is - people want a mini Nulsec - Where more is better, the biggest fleet will always win.
    Where destroying some guys implants is considered the highlight of an encounter. That is not pvp and honestly with that attitude so prevalent is it any wonder there is such a huge "Stabbed Farmer" problem in FW.

    To the people who actively pvp in FW, who want stabs removed and the ability to covert cloak in a plex reinstated. I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.

    Q1; How often do you Pvp in FW space
    Q2; Do you Pvp in small gang, fleet or solo and which would you do most.
    Q3; How long have you been a member of FW, include switching factions.
    Q4; How long have you played Eve
    Q5; How do you support your FW pvp lifestyle
    Finally
    If stabs were blocked from entering plexes and you could use covert cloaks when entering camping plexes.
    Would you be prepared to;
    1; Should Stabs be removed from complexes and covert cloaking be allowed
    2; Run complexes to help your chosen faction flip systems
    3; Be happy to run those complexes 12 to 14 hours per day

    4> Would you be happy as a Pvp'r, to be able to fly around half of FW space and not see anyone to fight?

    I really don't expect anyone to answer these questions BUT if those who believe FW is only about PVP and more PVP read it and answer to themselves "honestly".. You may actually see the floor in your overall plan. The Final question is the most important and for those who can remember that far back, not unrealistic.

    FW used to be a place where solo and small gang players could have some impact and be a part of something bigger without having to join massive fleets to find PVP and be successful.
    Not any more, blob warfare is slowly killing Eve, FW is on the endangered list, Nulsec is at the top of the list.
    nb; a blob is any number where sheer numbers dictate the outcome. A blob of 10 vs 1 is just as bad as a blob of 1000.



    Q1: Everyday I log in
    Q2: All of the above, but 90% is in a fleet of anywhere from 1-7 members
    Q3: All together over 2.5 years; never switched factions (only left to help out in nullsec and/or get a break)
    Q4: Almost 6 years
    Q5: I run complexes while trying to solo pvp. I usually run 1-2 before I get into a small gang and go look for targets

    Q6.1: Yes stabs should be removed as they simply allow people to safely avoid conflict. Cov ops cloaks take SP for the ships and the modules involved. Minus the cloaking hunters hunting the stabbed farmers (you wouldn't need this if stabs were removed) Cov Ops game play takes finesse to execute as opposed to just semi-afk or botting play style that is happening now.
    Q6.2: I already do. We pick a system to capture and we get all ships on board and are plexing 23/7 to capture it
    Q6.3: If there weren't hordes of farmers running plexes in almost every system 23/7, there would be no need to run plexes 12-14 hours a day. That "need" is only there as a consequence to the farming problem
    Q6.4: If plexes became less important (or have no impact like the old days) then you would see people taking the time to roam around and go out looking for pvp everyday. Instead we're stuck defending systems that can be flipped in less than 2 days if you have full timezone coverage and also having to fight hordes of farmers who have no incentive to fight, only the desire to make LP. So it seems you misunderstand the problem, if farming was fixed you would see more people actively running around the warzone instead of what happens now. Trick questionAttention

    --------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::-------
    Sgt Ocker
    What Corp is it
    #416 - 2014-05-20 06:08:53 UTC
    Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
    Sgt Ocker wrote:
    Veskrashen wrote:
    [quote=spoon Nardieu]This might be a little to risk adverse when it comes to neutrals. I don't think restricting plexes to only faction warfare plexes is the answer. Maybe what was said before making pvp more profitable to faction warfare pilots might make more content in the war zones. Lower LP for plexing and raise it for pvp related activities..

    I agree. I don't want FW to become some sort of 1v1 Thunderdome. Especially because I rather enjoy our fleet fights inside of plexes when folks are really pushing a system.

    Hmmm 3 years on, I've never seen a "fleet fight" in a plex. I've seen a lot of 10 vs 1 and 15 vs 2, inside a plex but never anything remotely resembling a "fleet fight".

    Which militia are you in? Can't be Calmil or Frogs, I've been in militia for a year and have been in over 85 in-plex fleet fights. And I havent even been that active over the past 5-6 months because of school. We fight both inside and outside of plexes. Why? no one can hotdrop us at plexes. Meaning no cynos. And believe me, we've been carrier dropped more than a few times. Fighting in plexes allows us to control the ships sizes we'll fight against, thus preventing us from being upshipped <------- A thing that has happened many, many, many times. And not just that, we fight in plexes when a system is about to be lost or taken.

    Yeah, not going to bother arguing a point but I will say, your idea of an organised fleet is somewhat different to mine and if fighting in a plex is the only way you can assure victory then there is something fundamentally wrong with; 1 your fleets, 2 FW as a whole.

    Isn't your comment about controlling ship size you fight against "Exactly" what limiting entry to Novice and Small plexes is about? Is it ok for your gang/fleet of 10 frigates (controlled ship size in a controlled situation) to enter a Novice plex and kill another frigate that happens to be in there? Or do you do it fairly and tell him you are coming and give him 5 mins to rally support to help him.

    Complexes with a ship restriction of Frigates are not a venue for "fleet" engagements. If in fact that is the intention of them, CCP needs to balance the Risk vs Reward so that "fleets" of frigates are needed to run them. But of course that brings us right back to - He with the biggest fleet wins.
    A totally bad concept that CCP should be working towards eliminating.

    Sov Nul is for the most part static (and boring as hell) due to BLOB warfare (and to a degree TIDI), FW going the same way would ruin it for all involved.

    My opinions are mine.

      If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

    It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
    Flyinghotpocket
    Small Focused Memes
    Ragequit Cancel Sub
    #417 - 2014-05-20 07:09:38 UTC
    When is our promised cyno jammer being implemented?

    Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
    HuGo87
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #418 - 2014-05-20 09:03:11 UTC
    I hate pirates.

    But I disagree with keeping them out of plexes. They're part of the game, and just because I tend to have a bad time with them, doesn't mean it's an invalid gameplay style.
    Vincintius Agrippa
    Crimson Serpent Syndicate
    #419 - 2014-05-20 10:21:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincintius Agrippa
    .[/quote]
    Yeah, not going to bother arguing a point but I will say, your idea of an organised fleet is somewhat different to mine and if fighting in a plex is the only way you can assure victory then there is something fundamentally wrong with; 1 your fleets, 2 FW as a whole.

    Isn't your comment about controlling ship size you fight against "Exactly" what limiting entry to Novice and Small plexes is about? Is it ok for your gang/fleet of 10 frigates (controlled ship size in a controlled situation) to enter a Novice plex and kill another frigate that happens to be in there? Or do you do it fairly and tell him you are coming and give him 5 mins to rally support to help him.

    Complexes with a ship restriction of Frigates are not a venue for "fleet" engagements. If in fact that is the intention of them, CCP needs to balance the Risk vs Reward so that "fleets" of frigates are needed to run them. But of course that brings us right back to - He with the biggest fleet wins.
    A totally bad concept that CCP should be working towards eliminating.

    Sov Nul is for the most part static (and boring as hell) due to BLOB warfare (and to a degree TIDI), FW going the same way would ruin it for all involved.

    [/quote]

    I never said we didnt win outside of plexes, I said we fight in them alot. I'm not talking about frigates im talking about cruisers with logi Usually. 50 v 50, although a few times it got up too 80 v 80. WE fight pirates and we fight galente. WE also run large af , faction frig, and dessie fleets. And no, if we spot a war target we kill him. If its something shiney we blob, if not a few go to smash him up. We roam all around fw space. FW space isnt boring. I remenber a few months ago we even teamed up with frogs to kill a snuffbox carrier and command ship fleet. They flew neut geddons and we flew bc's. A few weeks ago we wiped out a snigg inty fleet with t1 frigs, went even with them some time later against their wolf fleet, although we won isk war. We ffight all the time, cept when someone drops a sac fleet with guardians, then we run. Killed a few snigg hacs a few weeks ago too, but i havent been playing much, so much more has happened that i wasnt apart of. Not gonna lie though, we dont do as much as we use to. AS s I said before, like a good 70% percent of our big corps have left. Forget that, a lot of our big time fc's have left. Which is why its so quiet now.

    Khan and his alliance left and joined galmil because he's a turd. And he thought that he was somehow jesus incarnate. Funny thing is he just sits in our system in his pos doing nothing, occasionally camping in a plex at 80 in a cormorant, talkin S$%T in local. Vick, our main amor BC guy did something while I was gone and is now KOS to everyone. Leo stole a few bil isk worrth, i believe carriers from how pissed everyone is, and now every alliance and fleet wastes no time to kill him should his portrait pop up in local. Cal-mil and Frogs both have capitals as well. We've got carriers a few dreads, which stay docked. and 1 space penis. Or, atleast I hope we still do, Haven't seen it in a while. Not from test either, we had it before they came. Gal-mil has the same, cept for the titan. Point is,, fw spacee i isn't lacking, were just feeling a little down right now. don't jump to conclusions, just give it some time.

    Some Photos from te old war box :) Good times.

    http://postimg.org/image/n6dxegu01/

    http://postimg.org/image/dwhkqdoxx/

    http://postimg.org/image/qo5dvnqzx/

    http://postimg.org/image/fw455kk19/

    http://postimg.org/image/6qptnxfut/

    I didnt catch the battles that ensued though :( when the gals or pies drop on us I get so into the battle I forget to fraps.
    Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
    Veskrashen
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #420 - 2014-05-20 11:02:15 UTC
    Sgt Ocker wrote:

    Yeah, not going to bother arguing a point but I will say, your idea of an organised fleet is somewhat different to mine and if fighting in a plex is the only way you can assure victory then there is something fundamentally wrong with; 1 your fleets, 2 FW as a whole.

    Isn't your comment about controlling ship size you fight against "Exactly" what limiting entry to Novice and Small plexes is about? Is it ok for your gang/fleet of 10 frigates (controlled ship size in a controlled situation) to enter a Novice plex and kill another frigate that happens to be in there? Or do you do it fairly and tell him you are coming and give him 5 mins to rally support to help him.

    To correct a misperception, it's not that we're going into plexes because we have to control the fight dynamics in order to win. It's that we get 40v40 fights in plexes because that's what it takes to capture those plexes when we're invading a heavily contested system.

    The squids will generally step up to defend their home systems, and when that happens they will contest every single plex. Every one. With as many folks as they can. Which turns into 20-40 vs 20-40 fights 23/7 until the system flips or we run out of ships.

    The other warzone is different, I hear.

    We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."