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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Kronos] Blockade Runner Rebalance

First post First post
Author
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#141 - 2014-05-18 20:54:19 UTC
JAF Anders wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.


I'm training my alt to fly a Recon rather than a Blockade Runner for high-value cargoes since "Transport Roulette" is protected gameplay.

Any comment about giving a role bonus for MWD immunity?


You should be training your alt to fly a T3 rather than a Recon. It's lightyears better for not much more ISK/training time.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#142 - 2014-05-18 21:03:04 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

I think you don't really wanna know what we actually think. All I wanna know is why do you hate Minmatar?

Anyway, this looks a lot like a nerf and not a buff.

Increased warp speed bonus and being immune to cargo scanning is useless to a covert Blockade Runner.

Removed the Shield Booster bonus and then increased the amount of Capacitor and Cap Recharge which makes this good for what?

Decreased the Shield amount and increased the EM / Therm resist effectively destroying the ability to do a good Shield tank with Omni Resistance.

Decreased the Agility and increased the Mass thus making the ship slower, effectively making it easier to target.




DMC

No, do not say "we". You are not "we". Go back and read the responses and aside from the prowler agility, It's been almost completely positive. Definitely better than the rage fest over in the freighter thread.

warp speed bonus is perfect for this ship. Since this class is about quick, covert movement.

Extra cap is great if you find yourself needing to use an MWD/AB to get anywhere. Right now it doesn't last very long.

47hp. literally. they are just evening out numbers because they were originally made with realism in mind. And are you seriously complaining about getting extra resists? This does nothing but benefit you. You can still reach the same levels on kin/exp if not higher (depemnding on whether you adjust your fit to new stats).

Agility on the prowler is something I don't like is the lower agility, but I am confused since the align time didn't change if that means they evened out in the end.
Cade Windstalker
#143 - 2014-05-18 21:19:19 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.


Love that CCP is giving these ships all this attention.

My one concern with having the bonus prevent scanning by NPC customs officers is that you've now removed any issues with transporting illegal goods through high-sec. Hold full of drugs? Throw it in a Blockade Runner and auto-pilot straight to Jita 4-4.

I'd rather see it be something like an increase in scan-time for NPCs or a high %-chance for them to not see anything illegal, possibly stacking with pirate implants, which would finally give that piece of their bonus suite a real intentional use. Make it so you can get to 100% with implants and something like 90% without them maybe?

Also, and this seems really counter-intuitive, but maybe have a long cycle-time module that lets you see through BR shielding? That way you can see through an Auto-Piloting BR but one being actively piloted will be off and gone before the cycle finishes. That way gankers have a tool to see "oh, just hauling tritanium, nothing to blap here" or "holy crap he has 50000 Exotic Dancers! Open fire!" which increases safety for Auto-Piloting BRs (at least one's who aren't hauling anything really valuable Twisted)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#144 - 2014-05-18 21:44:20 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I think you don't really wanna know what we actually think. All I wanna know is why do you hate Minmatar?

Anyway, this looks a lot like a nerf and not a buff.

Increased warp speed bonus and being immune to cargo scanning is useless to a covert Blockade Runner.

Removed the Shield Booster bonus and then increased the amount of Capacitor and Cap Recharge which makes this good for what?

Decreased the Shield amount and increased the EM / Therm resist effectively destroying the ability to do a good Shield tank with Omni Resistance.

Decreased the Agility and increased the Mass thus making the ship slower, effectively making it easier to target.




DMC

Everyone gather 'round, we just found the one person who tanks blockade runners.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#145 - 2014-05-18 21:46:48 UTC
Also CCP is dumb calling it agility because there's no attribute in the game called agility and also saying "agility is going down" implies that it's, well, less agile when they really mean the inertia modifier is going down which increases agility.

Reducing inertia modifier has the effect of making the ship accelerate more quickly, align more quickly, etc.
So "reducing agility" and increasing mass cancel each other out.
Why CCP uses language like this which is completely counter to the actual meaning of the word is beyond me.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#146 - 2014-05-18 21:58:36 UTC
Finally! Cruisers in my prowler! The day is won!

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Soleil Fournier
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#147 - 2014-05-18 23:06:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.



so.....circumventing blockaids by jumping very large quantities of goods to nullsec via jump freighter is ok. But getting bubble immunity on a much smaller sized 'blockaid runner' to actually go through the blockaids is too powerful?

I see what you did there.

But not really. Just rename them so that whole issue disappears and players that have issue with the name are happy ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2014-05-18 23:08:02 UTC
You have a cloak, you don't need bubble immunity. Learn how to fly in null.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Soleil Fournier
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#149 - 2014-05-18 23:08:51 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You have a cloak, you don't need bubble immunity. Learn how to fly in null.


Lol it's just principal of the matter.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#150 - 2014-05-18 23:30:41 UTC
Soleil Fournier wrote:
so.....circumventing blockaids by jumping very large quantities of goods to nullsec via jump freighter is ok. But getting bubble immunity on a much smaller sized 'blockaid runner' to actually go through the blockaids is too powerful?

I see what you did there.

But not really. Just rename them so that whole issue disappears and players that have issue with the name are happy ;)

one ship costs feul and is a huge isk invesment. one can fly all day long and is relatively much cheaper. blockade runners are excelent at getting out of trouble if you know how to fly them effectively.
Cade Windstalker
#151 - 2014-05-18 23:39:13 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Also CCP is dumb calling it agility because there's no attribute in the game called agility and also saying "agility is going down" implies that it's, well, less agile when they really mean the inertia modifier is going down which increases agility.

Reducing inertia modifier has the effect of making the ship accelerate more quickly, align more quickly, etc.
So "reducing agility" and increasing mass cancel each other out.
Why CCP uses language like this which is completely counter to the actual meaning of the word is beyond me.


Increasing mass and reducing the inertia modifier don't completely cancel out because they don't completely affect the same stats and not all changes are percentage changes. You could, for example, significantly lower the mass of all Battleships but increase their Inertial multiplier and Wormholes would love you. You would also make it much easier to turn in a Battleship but, assuming your acceleration and other stats remained the same on the stock ship then adding a MWD would result in a much more sluggish ship than previously because you've increased your mass by a much larger percentage of your base mass.

More information available here: http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Agility
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2014-05-19 00:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
I didn't read the rest of your post because I'm assuming it's support for your first sentence, which I realized was right as soon as I saw it.

But still, saying "decreasing agility" is still dumb if you really mean that you're decreasing the inertia modifier, and as far as align times, acceleration, and turn rate is concerned reducing the inertia modifier and increasing the mass do have opposite effects, which is really what I meant by them canceling out. I am aware though that increasing mass also reduces the effectiveness of propulsion modules, makes it harder to bump, and increases strain on wormholes.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#153 - 2014-05-19 00:50:55 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely.

How is it a useful tool when this is already completely covered by the fact that these ships have covert ops cloaks?
Why does it matter that I can't be cargo scanned if they can't even target me?


I'm falling into the Goon conspiracy trap, agreeing that the unscannable cargo hold does not bode well for a future of players performing the capture & kill role for NPC customs. If the NPC customs can't scan the cargo and flag the ship as carrying contraband, how are the players supposed to enforce a blockade on drugs in hi sec? If I'm flying a cargo of drugs in what is essentially an un-catchable ship, am I really smuggling?

Also, why is the Minmatar BR gaining so much weight and becoming the slowest off the mark? Are you just deliberately trolling the population who focussed on training into the Prowler because it is the most agile? Did someone get confused and think the Viator was Minmatar?

As a prowler owner, I would be happy to forgo the extra cargo space for the sake of being lighter, faster and more agile (than any other BR). I'm not in the habit of hauling cruisers through low sec: the only ship I'd be hauling in a blockade runner would be a Kryos or Miasmos and they still won't fit.
Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#154 - 2014-05-19 00:52:53 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.


JFs already move all sized cargos through all space with everything immunity.




Really? Take a look at EvE kill and tell me how many JF's have been ganked recently. I'm going to tell you now they don't move with immunity.

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Meandering Milieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2014-05-19 01:11:29 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.


Please make BRs cargo immune to customs scans for smuggling. Make smuggling an actual aspect of gameplay, with maybe skills for it or something if not an unscannable cargo bay.

I think boosters need reworked as a whole, but that is another thread.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#156 - 2014-05-19 01:55:02 UTC
Meandering Milieu wrote:


Please make BRs cargo immune to customs scans for smuggling. Make smuggling an actual aspect of gameplay, with maybe skills for it or something if not an unscannable cargo bay.

I think boosters need reworked as a whole, but that is another thread.


Instead of an immunity, how about something like cycle times on all scanners (including NPC) take xx% longer. It would prevent people from just autopiloting drugs around, and make it so people with level 5 transport ship skill, with maybe some nano's or something able to transport illegal goods around if they are paying attention.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2014-05-19 01:55:36 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You have a cloak, you don't need bubble immunity. Learn how to fly in null.



I'm still convinced that they should get that **** off of the interceptors.
Hong Hu
Roving Guns Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#158 - 2014-05-19 03:20:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hong Hu
CCP Fozzie wrote:
On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.


I disagree. The ship is a specialized cargo runner. CovOps Cloaks and immunity to scans are part of that. But so would bubble immunity go hand-in-hand with high risk movement. Not having bubble immunity on a BR is as arbitrary as Interceptors having bubble immunity.

Side note; inty's and bubble immunity has also never sat well with me. I'd rather they have a +1 or +2 warp core strength to make the fight more interesting versus their bubble immunity making them the preferred choice for null-sec shuttles.

Still, I like the attention on BR's and DST.

Thanks,

Hong Hu
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#159 - 2014-05-19 04:06:48 UTC
Take the time to look the whole frame.

Each ship should have its advantage over its other race counterpart even if this advantage is small.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.

Chjna
the Goose Flock
#160 - 2014-05-19 05:07:29 UTC
I was looking forward to a 3 highslot Prowler after the keynote...

Sad streamlineing.

Remove T2 BPOs