These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2014-05-18 13:27:39 UTC
I think the sacrifices requied to fit one of these modules pretty much balances out the advantages.

a MJD fitted CBC/ABC has the GTFO ability but almost always must sacrifice a web to fit it (along with tank/gank/projection).

Sniping ABC's will usually have on grid tactical warpin's that they can warp to to bounce around the grid. The only change here is that they can now do it (once every three minutes) if some one puts a long range point on them or bubbled.

All this really does is make frigates very relevant as they will be required to get that hard tackle.

This is good for the game.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#262 - 2014-05-18 13:30:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Lucas Genos wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:
To all the crybabies:
Go to EFT and make a copy of your favorite CBC fit. Now replace one of your midslots with a T2 medium MWD (mMJD uses one more CPU). Now downgrade your guns and/or tank to make it actually fit. Now compare your old fit with your new fit. Now notice it has less utility, tank and/o gank. Now realize it won't be OP. Now stop crying.

To CCP:
ABCs don't actually need to make a lot of sacrifices besides an utility med and some ACR rigs. To stop ABCs from potentially break, and to keep the same ratios, I strongly recommend you reduce jump range and spool-up time by 25-50%. This would give it around the same align:spool-up and lockrange:jumprange as battleships, be less OP for ABCs and equally or more useful for CBCs.


CBC's are not the issue, ABC's are.


A lot of people are crying over CBCs, for some reason.
I wrote the second paragraph because ABCs could break from this.


Its because immunity to longpoints, bubbles, and hictor points on a bc is absolutely ridiculous

So you can fit mjd mwd lse on a naga with 425 rails with ease. There have been CBC fits linked in this thread already.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#263 - 2014-05-18 13:46:27 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The fact aht we addapted doe snto mean that now is better than before.


And The constant nerfign of ANY tactic that is not gallente in the face blaster brwaling is gettign tiresome.

If in the face brwaling is supposed to be the ONLY way to play.. why would anyone have any other race trained?



Yes, it is better because there's more diversity. If you can't see that you were part of the problem

Nice strawman, it's not the only way to play but it will be the way to play if you want to attack a BC, assuming he fitted MJD.




Great nonsense you spewed. Ibasically did nto flew BC. And no we do nto have more diversity now. The diversity of things we kill in high sec (and we are among the ones that kill the most ) droped DRAMATICALLy in the last 1 year.

There is no reason to use anything larger than a Cruiser in small scale warfare now. Peopel in fact use mostly T3 with warp speed increase because warp speed is one of the most relevant things in game now!


So you see less drakes and canes (just 2 ships) and you se a lot more cruisers now , and somehow you explain that as being less diverse.
Lucas Genos
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#264 - 2014-05-18 13:48:18 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:
To all the crybabies:
Go to EFT and make a copy of your favorite CBC fit. Now replace one of your midslots with a T2 medium MWD (mMJD uses one more CPU). Now downgrade your guns and/or tank to make it actually fit. Now compare your old fit with your new fit. Now notice it has less utility, tank and/o gank. Now realize it won't be OP. Now stop crying.

To CCP:
ABCs don't actually need to make a lot of sacrifices besides an utility med and some ACR rigs. To stop ABCs from potentially break, and to keep the same ratios, I strongly recommend you reduce jump range and spool-up time by 25-50%. This would give it around the same align:spool-up and lockrange:jumprange as battleships, be less OP for ABCs and equally or more useful for CBCs.


CBC's are not the issue, ABC's are.


A lot of people are crying over CBCs, for some reason.
I wrote the second paragraph because ABCs could break from this.


Its because immunity to longpoints, bubbles, and hictor points on a bc is absolutely ridiculous


Which is one of the reasons I suggested the jump range should be reduced by 25-50%. Have a DIC burn 50km from the fleet in the direction they're aligned and bubble up where they'll land. A good kiter can also burn in the direction they're facing when they active the MJD and keep tackle when they land (pro-tip: can't warp while the MJD is cycling). You could also throw one day old Slashers at them.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#265 - 2014-05-18 13:48:42 UTC
Lucas Genos wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:
To all the crybabies:
Go to EFT and make a copy of your favorite CBC fit. Now replace one of your midslots with a T2 medium MWD (mMJD uses one more CPU). Now downgrade your guns and/or tank to make it actually fit. Now compare your old fit with your new fit. Now notice it has less utility, tank and/o gank. Now realize it won't be OP. Now stop crying.

To CCP:
ABCs don't actually need to make a lot of sacrifices besides an utility med and some ACR rigs. To stop ABCs from potentially break, and to keep the same ratios, I strongly recommend you reduce jump range and spool-up time by 25-50%. This would give it around the same align:spool-up and lockrange:jumprange as battleships, be less OP for ABCs and equally or more useful for CBCs.


CBC's are not the issue, ABC's are.


A lot of people are crying over CBCs, for some reason.
I wrote the second paragraph because ABCs could break from this.


CBC will be ok with this, as stated earlier it's a bit of a funky buff but I'm fine with it. ABC is different, that'll just create more problems than it tries to solve mostly because they don't need any help in the first place AND because they're capable of long range sniping.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#266 - 2014-05-18 13:54:03 UTC
Lucas Genos wrote:


Which is one of the reasons I suggested the jump range should be reduced by 25-50%. Have a DIC burn 50km from the fleet in the direction they're aligned and bubble up where they'll land. A good kiter can also burn in the direction they're facing when they active the MJD and keep tackle when they land (pro-tip: can't warp while the MJD is cycling). You could also throw one day old Slashers at them.


Its still ridiculous. A ship can change align in way way less time it takes you to burn around to that spot.

Its basically a button that says "press here to exit fight" against any longpoint ship
MMak
State War Academy
Caldari State
#267 - 2014-05-18 13:54:44 UTC
Bad idea
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#268 - 2014-05-18 13:56:39 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:


Which is one of the reasons I suggested the jump range should be reduced by 25-50%. Have a DIC burn 50km from the fleet in the direction they're aligned and bubble up where they'll land. A good kiter can also burn in the direction they're facing when they active the MJD and keep tackle when they land (pro-tip: can't warp while the MJD is cycling). You could also throw one day old Slashers at them.


Its still ridiculous. A ship can change align in way way less time it takes you to burn around to that spot.

Its basically a button that says "press here to exit fight" against any longpoint ship


And a long point cruiser or frig can, against a BC, click the "keep at range >24km" button to "press here to exit a fight".
Lucas Genos
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#269 - 2014-05-18 14:01:34 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:


Which is one of the reasons I suggested the jump range should be reduced by 25-50%. Have a DIC burn 50km from the fleet in the direction they're aligned and bubble up where they'll land. A good kiter can also burn in the direction they're facing when they active the MJD and keep tackle when they land (pro-tip: can't warp while the MJD is cycling). You could also throw one day old Slashers at them.


Its still ridiculous. A ship can change align in way way less time it takes you to burn around to that spot.

Its basically a button that says "press here to exit fight" against any longpoint ship


Yes. Now brawlers can make sacrifices for GTFO ability, too. I still think it should be reduced to 50km range and 6 second spool-up, giving skilled kiters with OH T2 longpoint the ability to keep point after the jump.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#270 - 2014-05-18 14:04:20 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:


Which is one of the reasons I suggested the jump range should be reduced by 25-50%. Have a DIC burn 50km from the fleet in the direction they're aligned and bubble up where they'll land. A good kiter can also burn in the direction they're facing when they active the MJD and keep tackle when they land (pro-tip: can't warp while the MJD is cycling). You could also throw one day old Slashers at them.


Its still ridiculous. A ship can change align in way way less time it takes you to burn around to that spot.

Its basically a button that says "press here to exit fight" against any longpoint ship


And a long point cruiser or frig can, against a BC, click the "keep at range >24km" button to "press here to exit a fight".




That is the entire point.

A brawler can defeat a kiter through good piloting. You can play the game well, slingshot the enemy, and kill them.

There is no counterplay to mjd besides ramming the enemy using it.
Lucas Genos
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#271 - 2014-05-18 14:09:14 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:


Which is one of the reasons I suggested the jump range should be reduced by 25-50%. Have a DIC burn 50km from the fleet in the direction they're aligned and bubble up where they'll land. A good kiter can also burn in the direction they're facing when they active the MJD and keep tackle when they land (pro-tip: can't warp while the MJD is cycling). You could also throw one day old Slashers at them.


Its still ridiculous. A ship can change align in way way less time it takes you to burn around to that spot.

Its basically a button that says "press here to exit fight" against any longpoint ship


And a long point cruiser or frig can, against a BC, click the "keep at range >24km" button to "press here to exit a fight".




That is the entire point.

A brawler can defeat a kiter through good piloting. You can play the game well, slingshot the enemy, and kill them.

There is no counterplay to mjd besides ramming the enemy using it.


Which is why I said 25-50% reduction in jump range and spool-up would be better and more fun for everyone.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#272 - 2014-05-18 14:11:02 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:


Which is one of the reasons I suggested the jump range should be reduced by 25-50%. Have a DIC burn 50km from the fleet in the direction they're aligned and bubble up where they'll land. A good kiter can also burn in the direction they're facing when they active the MJD and keep tackle when they land (pro-tip: can't warp while the MJD is cycling). You could also throw one day old Slashers at them.


Its still ridiculous. A ship can change align in way way less time it takes you to burn around to that spot.

Its basically a button that says "press here to exit fight" against any longpoint ship


And a long point cruiser or frig can, against a BC, click the "keep at range >24km" button to "press here to exit a fight".




That is the entire point.

A brawler can defeat a kiter through good piloting. You can play the game well, slingshot the enemy, and kill them.

There is no counterplay to mjd besides ramming the enemy using it.


There is, it's called scram. Nano/kiting is no different from folks who years ago used WCS in their pvp ships. Your kiting ship works just fine but it might not against the few BC you run in to, surely this is the end of the world.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#273 - 2014-05-18 14:13:00 UTC
Lucas Genos wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:



Which is why I said 25-50% reduction in jump range and spool-up would be better and more fun for everyone.


That helps only for the hypothetical 1v1.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#274 - 2014-05-18 14:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:


Which is one of the reasons I suggested the jump range should be reduced by 25-50%. Have a DIC burn 50km from the fleet in the direction they're aligned and bubble up where they'll land. A good kiter can also burn in the direction they're facing when they active the MJD and keep tackle when they land (pro-tip: can't warp while the MJD is cycling). You could also throw one day old Slashers at them.


Its still ridiculous. A ship can change align in way way less time it takes you to burn around to that spot.

Its basically a button that says "press here to exit fight" against any longpoint ship


And a long point cruiser or frig can, against a BC, click the "keep at range >24km" button to "press here to exit a fight".




That is the entire point.

A brawler can defeat a kiter through good piloting. You can play the game well, slingshot the enemy, and kill them.

There is no counterplay to mjd besides ramming the enemy using it.


There is, it's called scram. Nano/kiting is no different from folks who years ago used WCS in their pvp ships. Your kiting ship works just fine but it might not against the few BC you run in to, surely this is the end of the world.


I mentioned scrams in my post. It is not counterplay based on pilot, its counterplay based on fitting. Its like if there was a module that just gave immunity to autocannons, and you said "well maybe fit blasters"

Ok. So lets I am in a myrmidon. You are in a stabber. I chase you trying to scram you. I tank your entire dps on a single rep, while cap stable

Now lets say Im an idiot and I burn out every single active module on my ship and dont micro any of my drones and you kill all of them. Do I not deserve to die? Do you not deserve the kill?
Lucas Genos
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#275 - 2014-05-18 14:16:54 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:



Which is why I said 25-50% reduction in jump range and spool-up would be better and more fun for everyone.


That helps only for the hypothetical 1v1.


If you're flying in fleets, there's no reason not to have newbros in Slashers with scram or at least a few DICs that can burn in front of their fleet and bubble. God forbid kiters have to commit something, too.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#276 - 2014-05-18 14:19:44 UTC
Lucas Genos wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:



Which is why I said 25-50% reduction in jump range and spool-up would be better and more fun for everyone.


That helps only for the hypothetical 1v1.


If you're flying in fleets, there's no reason not to have newbros in Slashers with scram or at least a few DICs that can burn in front of their fleet and bubble. God forbid kiters have to commit something, too.


Lets say it takes 10s for a fleet to completely reverse its align. How far can your dics burn in 10s?

Also few vs many is a common situation.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#277 - 2014-05-18 14:22:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Michael Harari wrote:
Ok. So lets I am in a myrmidon. You are in a stabber. I chase you trying to scram you. I tank your entire dps on a single rep, while cap stable

Now lets say Im an idiot and I burn out every single active module on my ship and dont micro any of my drones and you kill all of them. Do I not deserve to die? Do you not deserve the kill?


Here's how it is right now;

Because I opted to fit for kiting I thus opted to have an advantage against most ships and strategies, I can pick and choose the majority of my engagements (until I run into a faster ship). I can choose to attack you and I can choose to disengage whenever I want to and you certainly won't catch me. YOU don't get to choose anything; you're too slow to catch me (because I'm not stupid enough to fall for a myrm trying to slingshot me) and you're too slow to disengage. In short I have ALL the advantages and if I'm in any danger of losing my advantages I'll just GTFO.

I'll either win or I'll draw
You either lose or you'll draw



With MJD I still have all the advantages against the most ships and strategies, just not against MJD fit BC. Holy ****, there's something that has a counter to my uber kiting. THIS WILL NOT STAND!
Lucas Genos
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#278 - 2014-05-18 14:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Genos
Michael Harari wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Lucas Genos wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:



Which is why I said 25-50% reduction in jump range and spool-up would be better and more fun for everyone.


That helps only for the hypothetical 1v1.


If you're flying in fleets, there's no reason not to have newbros in Slashers with scram or at least a few DICs that can burn in front of their fleet and bubble. God forbid kiters have to commit something, too.


Lets say it takes 10s for a fleet to completely reverse its align. How far can your dics burn in 10s?

Also few vs many is a common situation.


Have several DICs spread around the fleet? Primary something without MJD like logi? Position a Lachesis so you keep point after the jump?

Edit: You can't turn off the MJD unless scrammed. When you see the BCs active them, have tackle burn in a scram one or two. You now have them 50-100km from the fleet and should be easy to kill.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#279 - 2014-05-18 14:25:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Lucas Genos wrote:
[
Have several DICs spread around the fleet? Primary something without MJD like logi? Position a Lachesis so you keep point after the jump?


Geometry. What you are suggesting takes ~ 100 dictors
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#280 - 2014-05-18 14:26:28 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
All this really does is make frigates very relevant as they will be required to get that hard tackle.

This is good for the game.


Yay because what this game definitely needs is more frigate blobs Roll

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone