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[Kronos] Factional Warfare Complex Improvements

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Irya Boone
The Scope
#381 - 2014-05-17 19:50:32 UTC
Tested it

So CCP please remove Dps of the npc but increase their tank so they not interfere in the fight , only prevent you to plex.

And for God sake DENY acces to the plex if the pilote have an WCS fitted or in cargo; you already have the code line
warpgate acces denied if there is no KEY in the cargo.

So please just do it already.

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#382 - 2014-05-17 19:54:49 UTC
No, sometime later. I'm planning to troll pirates after the end of the semester :) I love how mad they get. 
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Shad0wsFury
Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
Seventh Sanctum.
#383 - 2014-05-17 19:55:37 UTC
The fact that plexing--and to a great extent farming--both PvE mechanics, affect sovereignty and drive PvP is a large part of the problem.

If the militia wants to take over a hostile system, they should need to take it by force, not with a flood of carebears. I know what the argument is, that developers want the carebears to be included, to have a role in the "war." The reality is, aside from a very small minority of them, they are in it for the isk and could care less about losing a system or gaining a system. In fact, they are rewarded to keep systems in a state of near vulnerability (on both sides) because the LP rewards are better. There is little potential for PvPers to "muster" the forces of the PvEers, they are more like a force of nature that whimsically chooses where to devote their efforts.

To make matters more complicated, the economics behind the FW LP markets add significantly to the problem. When markets fluctuate, the players who are really in it for the isk simply change sides to the more profitable side. Especially in the Amarr/Minmatar theatre, much of the sovereignty seems to be driven by farmers, with PvPers coming to flip the systems when they're bored or hoping to goad the other side into a fight.

I do think the proposed changes will make some difference on FW, but I am still very skeptical that FW will be able to deliver on what it was originally envisioned to be, and what it really is supposed to be. Much more needs to be done to incentivize PvP in FW, and it's disappointing that after such a long wait that more is not being done.
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#384 - 2014-05-17 20:20:19 UTC
No doubt fw needs to be updated, but ant changes should be made by listening to those who participate in fw, fleets included, not the flood of those not in fw. They should have no say infact. FW should be better for all militia, not to give the third party who can shoot anyone and are not bound by any of the fw restrictions an easier life. 
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#385 - 2014-05-17 20:21:31 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
No doubt fw needs to be updated, but ant changes should be made by listening to those who participate in fw, fleets included, not the flood of those not in fw. They should have no say infact. FW should be better for all militia, not to give the third party who can shoot anyone and are not bound by any of the fw restrictions an easier life.


This is absurd, since things that happen in FW affect everyone in Eve.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#386 - 2014-05-17 21:31:16 UTC
I would like to briefly respond to those saying that lowsec is a stepping stone to null. This may have been the original intention but events have long since overtaken this goal.

Lowsec is now widely acknowledged to be more dangerous than null at anything below an organisation-wide level. Many low residents have done the null thing and found it sorely lacking for small gang PvP. They are now highly skilled PvPers and are unlikely to be tempted back to null by anything short of a major sov restructure that reduces the emphasis of the blob relative to skill.

Lowsec is now a unique space and the differences that make it so should be cultivated to stimulate an alternative environment to high, null and wormholes. It has long since ceased to be an intermediate zone in anything other than geography.

I would personally love to see a stepping stone mechanic introduced to highsec, possibly along the lines of non-scannable locations in space.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#387 - 2014-05-17 21:44:16 UTC
I have been farming! I decided to experiment with cloaks and stabs on TQ with a low skill alt. Admittedly, not quite a day one but pretty close. My belated conclusions are:

1. This is the most boring thing I can imagine doing. But I have never mined so take that with a grain of salt.

2. Cloaks are useful for the 'at keyboard' and 'semi-afk' player who keeps an occasional eye on dscan. They are completely useless for actual afk players because they are locked long before they can cloak.

3. Stabs are where it is at. You want lots of them. The recipe goes something like:
a) turn the volume up and minimise the client
b) wait for the lock alert
c) switch back and warp out

Great stuff. Very engaging gameplay. Ahem.

I would strongly prefer the rat tanks to be increased a little beyond what is proposed. The current stats will just shift the balance from a one day alt to a one week alt, as well as the use of dessies rather than frigates for farming. I suggest Novice 30, Small 80, Medium 180, Large 350.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#388 - 2014-05-17 22:28:55 UTC
Zappity wrote:
2. Cloaks are useful for 'bots
The changes CCP is going to implement have everything to do with limiting the effectiveness of 'bots, and nothing to do with the semi-afk farmers.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#389 - 2014-05-17 22:32:23 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Zappity wrote:
2. Cloaks are useful for 'bots
The changes CCP is going to implement have everything to do with limiting the effectiveness of 'bots, and nothing to do with the semi-afk farmers.



I don't understand the logic. Won't they just reprogram the bots? Or do you think the changes will be difficult for a bot programmer to respond to?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#390 - 2014-05-18 00:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
FT Diomedes wrote:
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
No doubt fw needs to be updated, but ant changes should be made by listening to those who participate in fw, fleets included, not the flood of those not in fw. They should have no say infact. FW should be better for all militia, not to give the third party who can shoot anyone and are not bound by any of the fw restrictions an easier life.


This is absurd, since things that happen in FW affect everyone in Eve.

BULL !!!!!
The only way in which FW effects "everyone" in Eve is via the price of faction things on the market.
Small gangs of neutrals preying on plexers is one of the foremost reasons many fit stabs.

Lock Novice and Small Complexes to FW members only - Add more Medium and large Plexes open to all.

Incorporate something like;
This for Novice & Small Complexes
And we would see a massive drop in Alt Afk Plex Farming and more Pvp (in plexes)

Some comments on the Spawn rates on Sisi;
Novice, 5 Npc spawns = Bad for trying to encourage Pvp, unless the aim is to make it far easier for the attacker and greatly disadvantage the person that has the timer.

Smalls, 4 spawns in the 1st 10 mins then nothing for the remainder of the timer, seems a little unbalanced, compared to Novices.

I do see the benefit of additional spawns but it is greatly going to reward plex hunters at the expense of those plexing. Increased time shooting fast repping npc's = lost ship when a neutral lands in the plex.
Stabbed, you won't have the Dps to kill the npc's, without stabs and spending 1/2 your time shooting npc's, will lead to many leaving FW as the ability to make isk is depleted.
If you are going to add extra spawns of npcs in novice and small plexes it needs to be balanced so nuets who simply use FW for pvp are not the only ones to benefit from the change.

Small & Novice sites should only be accessible to FW members. If people really want to pvp in small and novice plex's, join faction warfare.

PS; I think someone may have missed the "reduce npc dps" part of the change. I used an Atron with 200 dps and lost shields each time an npc spawned. Currently on TQ with the same ship, I get hit by the npc for between 20 and 40 HP, on sisi these hits are between 40 and 80 HP

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Khan'nikki
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#391 - 2014-05-18 05:25:14 UTC
Yun Kuai said:
Quote:

Well let's see how to begin...
First, my arazu would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Second, my rapier would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.


The use of a covert ops cloak implies some skills trained on the character. I'm sure the measure was for those proto & stabbed cloakers worth pocket change.

These cheap fits bring in a lot of dough once the rats have been cleared. In some cases they don't even warp off the pod because it is faster to wake up in ice.









Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#392 - 2014-05-18 06:58:07 UTC
Khan'nikki wrote:
Yun Kuai said:
Quote:

Well let's see how to begin...
First, my arazu would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.
Second, my rapier would like a word with you about how it won't be viable in plex fights anymore.


The use of a covert ops cloak implies some skills trained on the character. I'm sure the measure was for those proto & stabbed cloakers worth pocket change.

These cheap fits bring in a lot of dough once the rats have been cleared. In some cases they don't even warp off the pod because it is faster to wake up in ice.

No implants and minimal skills - it is more effective to lose the pod and be back in station faster to get a new cheapy to go back and make more LP.

Yun Kuai;
Your Arazu and Rapier are just as useful now as they have always been.. You need to de-cloak to lock a target, as the gate decloaks you as you hit warp, being de-cloaked as you enter means you don't have to do it once you land. It does give your potential target a few seconds to react, 1 or 2 might even get lucky enough to escape.

Cloaky camping plexes is still the same, with a T2 Disruptor you have 48k point, faction Scram will give you 25k overheated.
59k T2 Disruptor, 31k RF Scram with links. Simply sit outside the 30k perimeter, cloak and wait.

The spawning of additional Npc's with greater reps will go further toward less stab fits than anything else proposed. Without decent Dps you will not be able to kill the Npc's, fitting Dps mods requires the removal of stabs.

This also create a huge imbalance of "Fight or Flight" plexing, especially if the attacker enters the plex while you are engaging one of the 5 or 6 Npc's soon to be found in every plex.. Attacker wins, without exception.

We are going from 1 extreme to the other - Plex farming was too easy, now it will be virtually impossible.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Yuri Antollare
Moira.
#393 - 2014-05-18 10:52:32 UTC
Adding large plexes to the regular dungeon table is good.


Everything else is troubling/ 'who did you talk to when coming up with these changes?'

The banning of cloaks within 30km. So the few 'organic' ways that real players have come up with to obliterate bots (Astero, Bombers) are to be shutdown. Even assuming it would work, that is a horrible tradeoff.

Why won't it work? I'm no expert but surely a bot that can cloak once something lands on short dscan, can also be told to 'keep at range beacon 31km and then cloak once something lands on dscan,' like I am SUPER struggling to see how this would do anything what so ever.

One dude in an Astero will kill every single stabbed farmer and every single cloakie farmer. The changes will eliminate the hunters and do what? It wont stop bots with cloaks, and it wont stop people that are AFK with sound turned up and fitted with stabs. And all the while we are forgetting that absent things like some form of timer rollback, the ****** farmer will just warp out and wait. No amount of blundering with cloak restrictions will change the fact that these people have no intention of fighting. Stealth buff to farming?

Anyone that knows what they're doing when hunting bots/farmers knows these changes will kill that way of playing. Talk of faction boosted scram recons wasting time camping plexes is just a pipe dream. I had the ability to log on, see a farmer and have him dead within 5 minutes with an Astero. Now I will be able to do literally nothing when the farmer is in the plex first. I can however sit in a plex first with a 400m recon and a boosting alt, how very 'EvE Online' of you.

You want some solutions? How about CCP address the mountains of petitions FW players lodge citing the existing bots? How about you look at the fact that I can blow up 10 pvp fitted ships flown by decent pilots in a row and I make less LP than if two of us shared a novice plex? "Grr Goons" was a lazy response then and is unacceptable now, fiddle with how the payout equation draws its values and start to reward PvP and you know what, you might have more PvP.

How much we (actual pvpers in FW) make from FW is far more dependent on the tier structure CCP decides on than bots. Farmers and bots dont try to farm systems people actually live in. Its a feudal model, why should'nt some bot run plexes in a system you don't care about. This is not nullsec where you can control 20 systems around you by living in one. You live in a system, you own an astero. the real people behind the bots learn. The problem is not too many bots, it's not enough real pvpers for warzones the size they are.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#394 - 2014-05-18 11:54:59 UTC
or just deny acces for WCS and decrease tank of Ihubs

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#395 - 2014-05-18 15:26:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Templar Dane
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Typical responses, If pirates cant blow something up or gank someone100% of the time than there is something wrong with game mechanics. And in typical ccp response they yield to the wishes of third parties. Bad enough that everyone gets their ships nerfed by what is popular in null.

What you're suggesting only benefits neutral pirates. Fw guys cant cloak in plexes or face extreme penalties for using them. Meanwhile, neuts, who recieve no penalties are free to hide in mediums in rapiers and pilgrims and bait with fw alts. Which btw has happened to me a few times. I rectified that situation by not entering open plexes for the most part until late in the day.

Cloaks arent a problem, stabs arent a problem. I have yet to encounter anyone flying those, except for when we do our fleet raoms. That atron or two whose stabbed. So tf what we find someone else. We don't ***** and moan, except when some one flying a stabbed hac or Stratios. I've also never encountered a bot either.

Also, i'd like to point out that the level of farming, yes farming loyalty points, as it should be called has remained the same. The only reason they seem more prominent is because many of the larger corps and alliances have left FW. They got tired of the back in forth of fw and moved on to something that is more profitable or fun and interests them more. Or just as likely because of infighting between militia corps. Another thing that agitates me is the fact that many people who want to nerf plexing are pretending that it is the sole and most damaging effect on pvp, mostly solo pvp from the remarks that are being made. I think rather that it is the 70% chance that you'll be fighting someone with a fleet just waiting for you to be tackled, or with a fleet booster on station or sitting 1m out of a pos is sort of the main problem. Imo the very people complaining are in fact responsible. !00% gank 0% risk are your main goals.

Finally, It should be made absolutely clear that it wont ave anything other than no effect or a negative affect on fw. If people cant get lp in plexes theyl'll run L4's, that is when they have the standings. Or run dust site, if they still exist. And please, whoever suggested the nerf to sb's being prevented from running mission , just no. No one would run mission then. The only ships capable of doing these are either sb's or something large, slow and expensive ( i dont want to hear the dont fly what you cant afford to lose crap, it does not apply). DO to the fact that missions are at least 12 or more jumps out in low and that you often have to go through enemy space, using anything other than a stealth bomber would be just not be worth it. In fact, missions would not be worth it.

And there goes the militia.......


What happens is a large group gets a titan and then they think they've outgrown FW. Then it's time to set up in nulsec, so the leadership can live like kings on corp taxes.

Take away the easy isk from plexing, make it hard, make it brutal......and suddenly LP is worth more and the few with the guts to do it actually make isk....

But don't forget to balance the missions so they can't be soloed in a bomber......too easy. It should take a least a HAC. A point blank bomber with an ab should get shredded.

Then things will be where they need to be. ISK for risk. If anybody can do it with zero risk or extremely low risk in a cheapass ship, you should make less than mining veldspar. The whole reason the income from the plexes and missions is so high is BECAUSE IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE RISKY.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#396 - 2014-05-18 17:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Zappity wrote:


Lowsec is now a unique space and the differences that make it so should be cultivated to stimulate an alternative environment to high, null and wormholes.



I agree with you that it is now a unique space. It also appears that CCP is finally taking steps to recognize it as something other than a terrible wasteland and give it some unique value.

Zappity wrote:


It has long since ceased to be an intermediate zone in anything other than geography.

[/url].


I would like to see it be even more of an intermediate zone geographically. It would be awesome if the four major empires lost control of a bit more of their space to turn HS into four-six islands, separated by bands of lucrative, but dangerous low security space.

Where I disagree with you is in the level of risk. As Zarnak said above, low sec is the land of pirate implants. The lack of bubbles is a huge defining characteristic of low security space. I would love to see people have to put those implants at risk to get the bacon from the complex (or to kill those trying to get the bacon). That is why I support an ESS type mechanic for the FW complexes. It doesn't have to broadcast in local, but it should require you to commit to the thing in order to gain anything from it.

I also disagree with you concerning the use of low security space as a stepping stone. FW should be a stepping stone for getting people more involved in the wider world of Eve - not a place for solo alts to farm LP. Any changes to FW complexes should encourage people to try fits that are viable in combat in order to get bacon, not fits that encourage solo, semi-AFK gameplay. Any fit that is fundamentally focused on avoiding combat at all costs should be anathema to FW.

Some of you may ask why I, a 0.0 player, care about what happens in FW?

One, I believe in the butterfly effect. Things that happen in one part of Eve affect everywhere else.

Two, interaction is what creates retention for Eve players. Interactions need not always be mutually beneficial, but they should add excitement to Eve. The current interactions with semi-AFK, low-SP alts is not really that exciting or rewarding, for either party. This means they are fundamentally unhealthy for Eve.

Three, I used to be involved in FW, but it just didn't stick for me.

Four, almost everyone I personally know who is involved in FW is involved via a low-SP alt doing the semi-AFK thing to make ISK. When people who occupy some of the richest, most remote parts of space find it less risky and more lucrative to do FW then something is seriously out-of-whack.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#397 - 2014-05-18 17:55:57 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Zappity wrote:


Lowsec is now a unique space and the differences that make it so should be cultivated to stimulate an alternative environment to high, null and wormholes.

[/url].


I agree with you that it is now a unique space. It also appears that CCP is finally taking steps to recognize it as something other than a terrible wasteland and give it some unique value.

Zappity wrote:


It has long since ceased to be an intermediate zone in anything other than geography.

[/url].


I would like to see it be even more of an intermediate zone geographically. It would be awesome if the four major empires lost control of a bit more of their space to turn HS into four-six islands, separated by bands of lucrative, but dangerous low security space.

Where I disagree with you is in the level of risk. As Zarnak said above, low sec is the land of pirate implants. The lack of bubbles is a huge defining characteristic of low security space. I would love to see people have to put those implants at risk to get the bacon from the complex (or to kill those trying to get the bacon). That is why I support an ESS type mechanic for the FW complexes. It doesn't have to broadcast in local, but it should require you to commit to the thing in order to gain anything from it.

I also disagree with you concerning the use of low security space as a stepping stone. FW should be a stepping stone for getting people more involved in the wider world of Eve - not a place for solo alts to farm LP. Any changes to FW complexes should encourage people to try fits that are viable in combat in order to get bacon, not fits that encourage solo, semi-AFK gameplay. Any fit that is fundamentally focused on avoiding combat at all costs should be anathema to FW.

Some of you may ask why I, a 0.0 player, care about what happens in FW?

One, I believe in the butterfly effect. Things that happen in one part of Eve affect everywhere else.

Two, interaction is what creates retention for Eve players. Interactions need not always be mutually beneficial, but they should add excitement to Eve. The current interactions with semi-AFK, low-SP alts is not really that exciting or rewarding, for either party. This means they are fundamentally unhealthy for Eve.

Three, I used to be involved in FW, but it just didn't stick for me.

Four, almost everyone I personally know who is involved in FW is involved via a low-SP alt doing the semi-AFK thing to make ISK. When people who occupy some of the richest, most remote parts of space find it less risky and more lucrative to do FW than something is seriously out-of-whack.


A nulsecer with brains. Lowsec taught you well.
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#398 - 2014-05-18 23:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincintius Agrippa
I still dont like the idea of a 30km infinipoint bubble in plexes. All this talk of timer rollbacks assumes that you will either be attacked once or that whoever you defeat wont just reship and come back to finish you off, or that fw space is the land of solo for that matter.

I recall the last time I captured a site a few months ago, I was brawling with a thrasher in a small, or medium idrmbr, I burned out my guns as soon as the last rocket volley killed him. He just reshipped and came back. Had to leave.

Point is, if you take damage and have to leave to repair knowing that your timer will reset or rollback once you leave, whats the point of coming back?

If you receive serious damage in a close fight what are you to do when someone else slides in to fight?
Die and receive no lp? leave and receive no lp?

If im in a plex and spot a potential doubleteam in progress I'd have to burn 30km out to escape? No problem if I can fit an mwd, ab=dead in most situations.
For a kiter this wouldn't be a problem. But what if your a slow brawl fit? even if your a fast brawler, something fast can just slide in and kite you. AS of now you can just kill kiters as they warp in. This happens alot. IF your orbiting that beacon at 2km to brawl or atleast catch kiters, I seriously doubt that youll have enough time to burn, align, and then warp before you get ganked. All this does imo is to increase the number of kiters beacuse it'll reduce the chance of them being ganked by 100%. I dont care what anyone say, NOBODY like being ganged up on. This change assures people to either come kite fit or be blobbed and kited themselves.

Someone cloaked ready to catch someone plexing was never too much or a roblem, only happened to me twice, an astero, But, most cloaky hunters have to be within scram range, you atleast have a chance. This bubble is going to have more than one point, otherwise you can just fit 2wcs's. IF im not mistaken, more than one point = no mwd, so, if you approach an open plex, be wary.


Have these situations been taken into account?
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#399 - 2014-05-18 23:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Sometimes, things start off as a good idea, and things do not work as intended, so a fix is implemented, and not quite as intended. ...........etc etc

Sometimes one needs to ignore the complication and get back to basics.

1. Plexes of different sizes.

2. Only faction warriors admitted. Gate guns on entrance fire on any ships attempting to camp the entrance. You have thirty seconds.....ED 209Big smileShocked
(Arrive , check , decide, enter or warp away)

3. Only one of each war faction allowed in novice small and medium. Large open.

4. Gate is now permanently closed and Combat occurs.
( Once combat commences, if Player warps off, player loses plex.)

5. Winner wins the plex, and worthwhile rewards, 1.5x defeated ship kill value plus LP.
( If there is No kill then a reduced reward. But plex awarded to faction.)

Plex is now complete and despawns. System control updated.

Note:- No OGB and no cloaking in plex

No farming, no rats, no buttons, no complications.Big smile


Edit:- to prevent alt farming no entry to a plex where you have killed that "enemy" character in the last 8 hours.

Fozzie, if you wish to test the concept along with current mechanic, both could exist concurrently, as Combat Plexes.

Conclusion:- an opportunity for true, 1V1 PvP without complication.
It will increase the interest in and opportunity, of non Gank related PvP.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#400 - 2014-05-19 02:13:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Veskrashen
Zappity wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Zappity wrote:
2. Cloaks are useful for 'bots
The changes CCP is going to implement have everything to do with limiting the effectiveness of 'bots, and nothing to do with the semi-afk farmers.

I don't understand the logic. Won't they just reprogram the bots? Or do you think the changes will be difficult for a bot programmer to respond to?

Right now, the botter can simply have logic that says "if there is a ship on 150km d-scan, cloak. If not, decloak".

Now, that same bot will have to detect something on scan, move out of the capture radius, THEN cloak. Then, when the bad guy is gone, decloak and move back into the capture radius.

It's doable, but takes more work, and still costs more time than current mechanics.

Zappity wrote:
I would strongly prefer the rat tanks to be increased a little beyond what is proposed. The current stats will just shift the balance from a one day alt to a one week alt, as well as the use of dessies rather than frigates for farming. I suggest Novice 30, Small 80, Medium 180, Large 350.

Keep in mind the need to ensure that you're not unduly favoring Shield fits over Armor fits. For example, a Shield fit Algos using Light Ions and an MWD can easily hit 450dps; run an Algos with Light Ions and a 400mm plate and you barely hit 340s with max skills.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."