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[Kronos] Factional Warfare Complex Improvements

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Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#341 - 2014-05-17 05:06:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Yun Kuai
RavenTesio wrote:
[quote=Aiphona]

As far as the NPC Tanking / Damage Output... I'm sorry but I will echo what I said before.
It doesn't matter what you do to the NPCs, it will not stop farmers as it just means they'll train up their characters another week before they get added to the multi-box list.

In the mean time increasing the "DPS Tanking" means you're basically saying most of the Low-DPS ships, which keep in mind most players during their first 1-2 months rarely have ships that can break 70-80 DPS, it's the same when they upgrade to Cruisers then Battlecruisers.

They are at the absolute low-end of damage output. Yet you (and CCP apparently) are suggesting it is perfectly fine to basically say "**** New Players" from legitimately playing Solo if they want to.




What do you mean this will mess over new players? Why on earth do people think that new players should be on the same page in terms of their ability to make ISK? No other area in this game has new players and veterans on the same access levels. If new players are actually interested in FW they will do what every player has done before and team up with other new players until they can out and solo themselves. FW is supposed to be accessible for anyone to try and that's great. But just because you are coming to try it out doesn't mean you instantly are or should be granted access to every bit of content.

And new players still have 100% access to what FW is supposed to be about: PVP

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Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#342 - 2014-05-17 07:11:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincintius Agrippa
Ramone Ormand wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
...are not intended to somehow bring an end to "farming" or other evasion tactics. We have no intention of hard blocking warp core stabs or cloaks from complexes.


Why not? Plex's would be great places to find fights if 90% of all frigates inside of them weren't stabbed. It takes a silly amount of time to find PVP in a PVP focused zone. I find it odd that a faction can bring all systems of another faction into vulnerable state whilst multiboxing stabbed frigates. I thought it was factional WARfare not 'sit in space watching youtube with your hand down your pants' fare?

"I'm sorry, but the electronic systems of your warp core stabilizers interfere with the electronics of the acceleration gate and you may not jump through"

there, FW is fixed, none of this 'large plexes' change or NPC changes.


Bull. Simple as that.

Stabs arent a problem,
The majority of the people complaining arent even in fw, just pirates bitching and moaning because they can t gank someone who doesnt want to be ganked.. They complain that farmers ruin pvp. Nope. Cloaked pirates in medium plexes ruin pvp. The fact that you're 9-10x likely to be blobbed when you fight pirates ruins pvp. Infact, it is to be expected that youll be at 2 to 1.. These changes only really benefit the third party: pirates. How about this, restrict plexes to militia only, except larges of course.
Nothing wrong with cloaks either, if you cloak, timer stops. Both of these modules gimp your ship.

Leave farming alone. It benifits the militias. Not everyone wants to fight 23hrs a day. We need a cooldown. This coming from both sides. I dont farm alot, but i do know that its the backbone of militia. If you interfere with the farmer's ability to farm you will have no fights. Period. I dont care what ccp" always finding something not broken to fix" and ccp "nerfzilla" say. Even the guys who complain about farmers understand that this is how people make a living. It's how people can afford to buy ships and modules. It's the only way, other than looting, but most fw, frigs and dessies, arent flying expensive fits. We fight, we fight all the time, but If militia guys cant farm isk a few hours a week there will be no militia. People join the militia for two reasons: Isk and pew pew splosion boom laserautocannon blasterthon's. Oh, and three not to mention have fun.

P.s, chill the %#^& out, picking on those you are more skilled than doesnt make you an elite pvp'er, just another bully. If someone doent want to fight you theyre not going to fight you. Suck it up and move on.
p.s.s im not for 24hrs farming, just the ability to farm on your terms.

Last thing, finding a fight in fw space isnt hard. finding a fair fight is. IYou can go 50 jumps in nul and not get a single fight. Doesnt mean null is broken, just that people are off doing other things.
Also, you do realize that half of militia is in high sec.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#343 - 2014-05-17 07:48:35 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Aiphona wrote:

This whole topic is about getting MORE PVP in FW and LESS PVE (less farmers)

So your missing the whole point here: Plexing is NOT PVE and should not be

Plexing is a PvE activity designed to bring pilots to specific places for specified periods of time, in order to incentivize PvP.

In other words - it's both.

At the moment, the PvE aspect is too heavily rewarded with respect to the amount of effort / attention / fitting required, which has led to the proliferation of stabbed / cloaky plexing alts which infuriate so many.

These changes make that far more difficult, thus significantly impacting the isk/hr of the AFK stabbed cloaky plexing farmers, while not significantly impacting the income a PvPer can make from plexing while trolling for fights.

Not everything in EVE has to be a black and white, PvE or PvP distinction.


I think the larger problem here is that there is no lp payout for killing the enemy. most 1v1 fights only give a few hundred lp, whereas a novice plex can give 7500 if im not mistaken. Possibly more could be made doing dust sites, before they changed it that it. People fight when they want to and run when they dont. To repeat something a gal once uttered to one of our fdeplexing fleets "thats ok, ill just come back and plex when your sleep". You dont need stabs to avoid fights in plexes. Get a derptron or condor and no one will ever catch you. I fight when I want to, but if its late at night and im tired I farm isk to fund my arsenal.

If you don't like the sight of farmers, get out of fw space and go to nullsec :) Eve isnt just one big deathmatch.

Once again, I think boosted pirates who double and quadrateam are more of a nuance. I rarely daytime solo roam in fw space anything larger than a destroyer because i know i will get octa teamed. Everyone should have the right o determine when and where, and how they wish to fight.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#344 - 2014-05-17 07:54:19 UTC
Diana Mabata wrote:
I'm all for all of these changes. The one thing that really pisses me off are the people that aren't in FW bitching about this. I say if you're going to change anything about this the first thing should be No nutes can use the gate. These weekend pvper's are starting to **** me off. Efing man up and be pvp 24/7 not just when you and 15 friends want to come mess with us and our systems.



THANK YOU,THANK YOU, THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU. Finally someone tells it like it is.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#345 - 2014-05-17 08:53:12 UTC
Um, you guys do realise that FW is in lowsec don't you? Maybe Fozzie could open up some highsec regions for you. Because that's pretty much what you are asking for.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#346 - 2014-05-17 09:36:12 UTC
Yes, and part of being in low sec means you can mosty do what you want right? Well some peaple wanna farm. Don like it? Go to null..
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Aiphona
Alien Mindbenders
#347 - 2014-05-17 09:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Aiphona
RavenTesio wrote:
Aiphona wrote:

And really what do you think the farmers will do if they disable warp core stabs in plexes???
They are all gonna use cloaks!!
And if they gonna allow covert ops cloaks, all you will see is plexing stealthbombers.
Dont be stupid and think this through.

The changes as they are now are great!
They only need to give the npc more tanking ability:

Novice should tank: 75 dps
Small should tank: 150 dps
Medium should tank: 225 dps
Large should tank: 300 dps


Let them Cloak because with a cloak they have to be watching local, they have to be able to hit that button the second someone drops on field with them... because once they're targeted that cloak is completely useless.

Cloaks DO have serious downsides to using them, and those that don't are considerably more expensive or far more specialised making them relatively useless for farming outside of Mission Running; but then that honestly should be a simple solution of well ship lock-outs.

I mean it isn't hard... tired of trying to catch Bombers in L4 FW Missions, really it is a bit bullshit they're allowed in there.
Don't get me wrong I'm Caldari so yeah that is often the best ship to do our L4 Missions - but just block Frigates and Destroyers from entering. There are a dozen or so ships that ARE already blocked from going in, if you end up forcing the Risk-Reward ... sure people will ***** for a bit but they'll adapt leading to more fights.

Or rather I should say, we'll have more Covert T3s running around ... but that isn't a bad thing as they are easier to catch, are a considerably larger risk - it balanced out quite well, especially as they're next up on the re-balance hit list.

---

As far as the NPC Tanking / Damage Output... I'm sorry but I will echo what I said before.
It doesn't matter what you do to the NPCs, it will not stop farmers as it just means they'll train up their characters another week before they get added to the multi-box list.

In the mean time increasing the "DPS Tanking" means you're basically saying most of the Low-DPS ships, which keep in mind most players during their first 1-2 months rarely have ships that can break 70-80 DPS, it's the same when they upgrade to Cruisers then Battlecruisers.

They are at the absolute low-end of damage output. Yet you (and CCP apparently) are suggesting it is perfectly fine to basically say "**** New Players" from legitimately playing Solo if they want to.

In the mean time most Farmers will simply swap tactics to another ship that is a little less economical to build or have another multi-box character added just to get that additional DPS needed, especially /IF/ as CCP suggest they're making the NPCs paper thin with no real punch.

Yeah that'll show those farmers... man I bet they're terrified of these changes.
As I said in my original post, ignore trying to use the NPCs as a means of preventing farmers... You can't, not without basically ******* over the legitimate players by ramping the difficulty to be on-par with Incursions; even then all you'll do is end up with far more organised farmers.

Instead the NPCs should be a learning tool to get players used to what they'll come against in PVP, standard fits, what each ship does... I mean it's fine showing Traits and being like "Well this is a Jamming Ship" or such - but most people don't understand how any of those mechanics actually work, I mean in PVE a) it isn't the right damn ship doing such things, and b) the module often like ECM for example is so much more powerful than a Player ECM that the chances of being perma-jammed are just monumentally high as it relies on the OLD statistics of those modules at Level 5 using Officer Mods.

All we need to deal with Farming are chances to level the playing field so we CAN police it.
And in-fact I'd actually say the exact same is true with dealing with the Null-Sec Alliances that treat Low-Sec as their own personal Hot Drop playground.

Right now we don't have the Resources to properly counter Super Capitals or just large Capital Fleets.
Having the toys that Null-Sec have available, along with Capital, Super Capital, Specialist Faction Starbases, all that are only available while in Militia (or rather they are buffed by being in Militia) so outside they are little more than military livery ... linking it to the Ranks that should be earned from Service Time, Kills, Securing / Defending Systems, providing OB for DUST. So you have to be committed to a given Faction with a clear stake in it before providing access to such things.

I mean you want to know the core way to improve FW on the whole... that would be it.
Don't change mechanics to simply try fixing problems with the system itself, make changes that give that power to those involved the chance to handle things themselves.


You absolutely have not clue do you?
The amount of plexing-bots with a cloak is ridicilous atm, so the cloak nerf is awesome.
You can do 75 dps with a 1 day old char in a t1 frigate, so Novice's will still be viable for newbs.
A fully trained t1 frigate can do over 150 dps, so they might even be able to run Smalls.
The Large Complexes are the best thing that ever happened to FW, because the older FW pilots are sick and tired of always having to fly frigs and dessies, now we can finally use our Battlecruisers and Battleships again in the Larges!!!
FW isnt meant to be for newbies only, there are a lot of veterans in FW that want to use their big stuff.
This change is one of the best things that can happen to FW!
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#348 - 2014-05-17 09:39:27 UTC
Aiphona wrote:
RavenTesio wrote:
Aiphona wrote:

And really what do you think the farmers will do if they disable warp core stabs in plexes???
They are all gonna use cloaks!!
And if they gonna allow covert ops cloaks, all you will see is plexing stealthbombers.
Dont be stupid and think this through.

The changes as they are now are great!
They only need to give the npc more tanking ability:

Novice should tank: 75 dps
Small should tank: 150 dps
Medium should tank: 225 dps
Large should tank: 300 dps


Let them Cloak because with a cloak they have to be watching local, they have to be able to hit that button the second someone drops on field with them... because once they're targeted that cloak is completely useless.

Cloaks DO have serious downsides to using them, and those that don't are considerably more expensive or far more specialised making them relatively useless for farming outside of Mission Running; but then that honestly should be a simple solution of well ship lock-outs.

I mean it isn't hard... tired of trying to catch Bombers in L4 FW Missions, really it is a bit bullshit they're allowed in there.
Don't get me wrong I'm Caldari so yeah that is often the best ship to do our L4 Missions - but just block Frigates and Destroyers from entering. There are a dozen or so ships that ARE already blocked from going in, if you end up forcing the Risk-Reward ... sure people will ***** for a bit but they'll adapt leading to more fights.

Or rather I should say, we'll have more Covert T3s running around ... but that isn't a bad thing as they are easier to catch, are a considerably larger risk - it balanced out quite well, especially as they're next up on the re-balance hit list.

---

As far as the NPC Tanking / Damage Output... I'm sorry but I will echo what I said before.
It doesn't matter what you do to the NPCs, it will not stop farmers as it just means they'll train up their characters another week before they get added to the multi-box list.

In the mean time increasing the "DPS Tanking" means you're basically saying most of the Low-DPS ships, which keep in mind most players during their first 1-2 months rarely have ships that can break 70-80 DPS, it's the same when they upgrade to Cruisers then Battlecruisers.

They are at the absolute low-end of damage output. Yet you (and CCP apparently) are suggesting it is perfectly fine to basically say "**** New Players" from legitimately playing Solo if they want to.

In the mean time most Farmers will simply swap tactics to another ship that is a little less economical to build or have another multi-box character added just to get that additional DPS needed, especially /IF/ as CCP suggest they're making the NPCs paper thin with no real punch.

Yeah that'll show those farmers... man I bet they're terrified of these changes.
As I said in my original post, ignore trying to use the NPCs as a means of preventing farmers... You can't, not without basically ******* over the legitimate players by ramping the difficulty to be on-par with Incursions; even then all you'll do is end up with far more organised farmers.

Instead the NPCs should be a learning tool to get players used to what they'll come against in PVP, standard fits, what each ship does... I mean it's fine showing Traits and being like "Well this is a Jamming Ship" or such - but most people don't understand how any of those mechanics actually work, I mean in PVE a) it isn't the right damn ship doing such things, and b) the module often like ECM for example is so much more powerful than a Player ECM that the chances of being perma-jammed are just monumentally high as it relies on the OLD statistics of those modules at Level 5 using Officer Mods.

All we need to deal with Farming are chances to level the playing field so we CAN police it.
And in-fact I'd actually say the exact same is true with dealing with the Null-Sec Alliances that treat Low-Sec as their own personal Hot Drop playground.

Right now we don't have the Resources to properly counter Super Capitals or just large Capital Fleets.
Having the toys that Null-Sec have available, along with Capital, Super Capital, Specialist Faction Starbases, all that are only available while in Militia (or rather they are buffed by being in Militia) so outside they are little more than military livery ... linking it to the Ranks that should be earned from Service Time, Kills, Securing / Defending Systems, providing OB for DUST. So you have to be committed to a given Faction with a clear stake in it before providing access to such things.

I mean you want to know the core way to improve FW on the whole... that would be it.
Don't change mechanics to simply try fixing problems with the system itself, make changes that give that power to those involved the chance to handle things themselves.


You absolutely have not clue do you?
You can do 75 dps with a 1 day old char in a t1 frigate, so Novice's will still be viable for newbs.
A fully trained t1 frigate can do over 150 dps, so they might even be able to run Smalls.
The Large Complexes are the best thing that ever happened to FW, because the older FW pilots are sick and tired of always having to fly frigs and dessies, now we can finally use our Battlecruisers and Battleships again in the Larges!!!
FW isnt meant to be for newbies only, there are a lot of veterans in FW that want to use their big stuff.
This change is one of the best things that can happen to FW!





Meh, most of us fly frigs and deddies cause theyre cheap and easy for everyone to replace. 90% of cruiser and up are mostly used for i-hubs.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#349 - 2014-05-17 10:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Bienator II wrote:
i had a bit time so i gave the changes on SISI a try. Here my technical feedback additional to the fact that i think they serve no purpose (see other post).

If you enter a plex you quickly notice that the plex anomaly marker (called plex beacon) is stalking your ship. This means you have an invisible object at 0 meters distance to your ship within the plex. CCP did this as quick hack to prevent you to ckoak within the plex timer range (client doesn't let you cloak since the stalking object is within 2k). If you move 30k away from the timer you notice it will stop moving and the distance to you will increase as you would expect from a regular object in space.

you see this beacon on the overview moving with your ship which is quite confusing to me you also lose the sense how far you are away from the warpin (spatial awareness and all).

Can you remove the beacon from overview?
nope, if you do it all plexes will be removed from OV too. Since its the anomaly marker. Good luck dscanning

Can you add the other warpin beacon (the graphical object with the blinking light) to you overview so you see how far you are away from warpin?
you can, but its a "large collidable object", if you do that you will see all kind of other stuff on your OV.


(sidenote: i really do hope that you have this stalking beacon server-side too, since if you don't we have "AP warp to zero" all over again and i probably should continue the discussion with the security channel)


alternative proposal:
- get rid of the whole thing and simply spawn a NPC as soon someone cloaks. If he decloaks he has to fight it, is locked and can't cloak for a while and interesting things might happen

proper fix:
- get rid of it and implement a form of timer rollbacks (see other post)



edit: thanks for the large plex change! those are awesome

A fix I've seen mentioned in the past and I think could be a good solution for "keeping range" on the countdown beacon.

Lock range for all ships entering a Plex is reduced by default to 30k, the beacon must be locked for the timer to count down.

Having the warpin visible is too easy, better if the warpin is random. The plex beacon is in a set position, so no matter where the warpin is, you will always land within 30k of it but never in the same place twice.

So ship A enters the plex, kills defending NPC and moves to 29k of the beacon.
Ship B enters to fight ship A, he will always land within at least 29k of his intended target but has a random chance to land, right on top of or at any range within the 30k limit of the beacon.

As Stabs reduce lock range they are forced to sit closer to the beacon.
Random warpins give the added possibility of landing right on top a stabbed plex runner. Afk plex farming doesn't go away but is a lot harder to accomplish.

Fit for the job, fighting in plexes could be fun Twisted

Corax - Plex Pirate
Low
2 X BCU ll

Mid
True Sansha Warp Scrambler (13.5k over heated)
Faint Warp Disruptor
Sensor Booster ll - scan res script
Limited 1 MN Microwarpdrive

High
Rocket Launcher ll X 7 - Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

Rigs
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst (T1 ok, T2 better)
Small Hull HP Rig X 2 (with drawback being changed to cargo size reduction, these will be nice)

Stats (with my skills - not all 5's but ok.
200 Dps - 234 overheated (240 with Scourge Rage 280 overheated)
Point range, Scram, 11.3 (13.5 overheated)
Disruptor, 20k, (24k overheated)
Use both - Scram strength X 4
Scan res 950mm
1 min 51 secs cap time, with everything running
1,400 m/s
4,262 Ehp.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#350 - 2014-05-17 11:31:55 UTC
Cloaks are not a problem in plex's. The ability to cloak up after starting the timer and hide until boredom staves off the intended hunter is a problem.

I don't like the current proposed fix. I think the lock the bunker/capture point is nearly there.

1. Player must lock the bunker to start the plex or deplex timer. The bunker auto locks the player that locks it. If the lock is dropped the timer stops.

Cloakers trying to set traps can still do there thing. Pilots whom do not want to fight an overwhelming enemy can warp out.

To me, this has better balance.


Warpcore stabilisers are not right in their current form. The current version is a tweak on the original which was being utilised for aggressive PVP fits on Sensor Damp Ravens that was an unbalanced doctrine that had no counter.


I have two proposals for warp core stabilisers. I think they have a massive impact on the FW zone and the plex mechanics and so it is relevant to discuss them here.

2. Remove the current drawbacks on a fitted WCS. Replace with -3 to maximum locked targets. This means if one I'd fitted to a standard frig you are down to 1 target. A second and you are likely to be u able to lock a target (combined with 1 above is an effective treatment of multi stabbed farming). Maybe it should be -2 but I am meaning to -3.

3. Alternatively, there is another form of WCS that could be considered. The module would be radically changed to an active module. The module is activated and at the end of the cycle the warep core receives a plus 1 stability. Each cycle another plus one. The counter is cleared after warp is activated. For each plus 1 warp core stability there is a counter effect of -40% scan resolution.

With the possible change 3. You could even consider then restricting how many of this module type can be fitted (like a dcu).

Currently, with no timer rollbacks a frig pilot with cloak and WCS fitted, can affect the FWarzone without an effective counter ( OK I will give you the asteros / frig tackling stealth bomber but neither of those are easily accessible for the newer players section that FW is supposed to be targeted towards).

More on FW to come. =~)

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#351 - 2014-05-17 11:39:09 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Aiphona wrote:
[quote=RavenTesio][quote=Aiphona]
Snip
---




Meh, most of us fly frigs and deddies cause theyre cheap and easy for everyone to replace. 90% of cruiser and up are mostly used for i-hubs.


No. The reason most of us are flying Destroyer hull and below is because you cannot effectively control a system pkexing because there are too few medium and large plex's by contrast to the novice and small.

If you don't ship down the enemy will and happily counter your efforts without confrontation.

CCP appear to have recognised this with the increase of large plex's.

However I believe there should be a gated plex for Battlecruisers down. These ships are well designed for skirmish and solo work if only they were given more opportunity of engement without hot-drop.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#352 - 2014-05-17 11:51:11 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Aiphona wrote:

This whole topic is about getting MORE PVP in FW and LESS PVE (less farmers)

So your missing the whole point here: Plexing is NOT PVE and should not be

Plexing is a PvE activity designed to bring pilots to specific places for specified periods of time, in order to incentivize PvP.

In other words - it's both.

At the moment, the PvE aspect is too heavily rewarded with respect to the amount of effort / attention / fitting required, which has led to the proliferation of stabbed / cloaky plexing alts which infuriate so many.

These changes make that far more difficult, thus significantly impacting the isk/hr of the AFK stabbed cloaky plexing farmers, while not significantly impacting the income a PvPer can make from plexing while trolling for fights.

Not everything in EVE has to be a black and white, PvE or PvP distinction.


I think the larger problem here is that there is no lp payout for killing the enemy. most 1v1 fights only give a few hundred lp, whereas a novice plex can give 7500 if im not mistaken. Possibly more could be made doing dust sites, before they changed it that it. People fight when they want to and run when they dont. To repeat something a gal once uttered to one of our fdeplexing fleets "thats ok, ill just come back and plex when your sleep". You dont need stabs to avoid fights in plexes. Get a derptron or condor and no one will ever catch you. I fight when I want to, but if its late at night and im tired I farm isk to fund my arsenal.

If you don't like the sight of farmers, get out of fw space and go to nullsec :) Eve isnt just one big deathmatch.

Once again, I think boosted pirates who double and quadrateam are more of a nuance. I rarely daytime solo roam in fw space anything larger than a destroyer because i know i will get octa teamed. Everyone should have the right o determine when and where, and how they wish to fight.


I think you have tagged "farming" onto any plex capturing activities.

To me the term "farming" is associated with the extreme. The exploitation of the system mechanics, as they are, to maximise income and maximise risk negation.

There is a difference to those who are Plexing hard (perhaps to recover some income from a ship loss) or someone avoiding a pirate gank gang to someone who uses bot software with cloak and stabs in order to farm income with negligible risk.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#353 - 2014-05-17 13:41:55 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
I think the larger problem here is that there is no lp payout for killing the enemy. .

A good kill is its own reward.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#354 - 2014-05-17 14:30:00 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:

Bull. Simple as that.

Stabs arent a problem,
The majority of the people complaining arent even in fw, just pirates bitching and moaning because they can t gank someone who doesnt want to be ganked.. They complain that farmers ruin pvp. Nope. Cloaked pirates in medium plexes ruin pvp.....


Many people left faction war because ccp never made the changes they promised which would make the occupancy "war" a pvp war instead of a carebear race.

As bad as what you say sounds it is unclear whether or not ccp agrees with you.

A post buried on page 6 that explains why all these changes will accomplish nothing is better supported than the CCP devs original post.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4572539#post4572539

That better supported post is asking for a change that ccp correctly acknowledged had been suggested many times by the faction war community because the community wanted occupancy to be a pvp mechanic. If you want pve, we have missions. In October of 2012 they said they said it was on their to do list. What happened?

Do they no longer really want occupancy to be about pvp? Its either they have no clue what is happening, or they know these changes will effect absolutely nothing. Or there is some technical difficulty with rollbacks or there is something else. But that's the problem. No communication about what seems a simple yet hugely important fix that was promised almost 2 years ago. If ccp decided they really don't mind the farming of plexes because it gets people (even if they are just alt accounts) in low sec, or whatever, then at least say it. But they should be up front about it or we are left to speculate the worst.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#355 - 2014-05-17 14:38:12 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Diana Mabata wrote:
I'm all for all of these changes. The one thing that really pisses me off are the people that aren't in FW bitching about this. I say if you're going to change anything about this the first thing should be No nutes can use the gate. These weekend pvper's are starting to **** me off. Efing man up and be pvp 24/7 not just when you and 15 friends want to come mess with us and our systems.

THANK YOU,THANK YOU, THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU. Finally someone tells it like it is.

No, restricting plex access for pirates is not a good idea.

I do agree that pirates should have some downside for trying to engage a FW pilot in a plex, but restricting gate access for nutes is just plain silly.
unbless83
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#356 - 2014-05-17 14:52:52 UTC
heya fozzie o/

could we not add a warp disruption bubble equivalent to 25-ish km beyond the capture radius in plexes (the bubble would need to override stabs and inty/ t3 immunity)?

you guys were saying that you see "fw as a stepping stone to null" ... in the spirit of that, could we not use FW complexes (its central gameplay feature) to ease the playerbase into the concept of bubbles?

by including this risk it might go some way towards balancing the rewards -particularly at higher control tier plex captures-
atm there is pretty much zero risk to farmers of actually losing a ship:- farmers dont even need a working knowledge of dscan.

importantly:- you wouldnt be taking tools off people, just making them learn to operate dscan and cope with bubbles for a nice lil LP prize.

also:- how workable is this idea on a 0-10 scale ... need to know if it's beyond wishful thinking.

Aussies are the unicorns of eve... rare and horny
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#357 - 2014-05-17 15:22:58 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Fit for the job, fighting in plexes could be fun Twisted

Corax - Plex Pirate
Low
2 X BCU ll

Mid
True Sansha Warp Scrambler (13.5k over heated)
Faint Warp Disruptor
Sensor Booster ll - scan res script
Limited 1 MN Microwarpdrive

High
Rocket Launcher ll X 7 - Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

Rigs
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst (T1 ok, T2 better)
Small Hull HP Rig X 2 (with drawback being changed to cargo size reduction, these will be nice)

Stats (with my skills - not all 5's but ok.
200 Dps - 234 overheated (240 with Scourge Rage 280 overheated)
Point range, Scram, 11.3 (13.5 overheated)
Disruptor, 20k, (24k overheated)
Use both - Scram strength X 4
Scan res 950mm
1 min 51 secs cap time, with everything running
1,400 m/s
4,262 Ehp.


My favorite part of this fit is the two Hull HP rigs on a ship that doesn't have a damage control. That's almost as nice as the 170m ISK warp scrambler on the paper thin destroyer, but I guess you don't actually expect your opponent to fight back.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#358 - 2014-05-17 15:26:58 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Diana Mabata wrote:
I'm all for all of these changes. The one thing that really pisses me off are the people that aren't in FW bitching about this. I say if you're going to change anything about this the first thing should be No nutes can use the gate. These weekend pvper's are starting to **** me off. Efing man up and be pvp 24/7 not just when you and 15 friends want to come mess with us and our systems.



THANK YOU,THANK YOU, THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU. Finally someone tells it like it is.


If by "tells it like it is" you mean that you want WoW style battleground where other people can't interfere with you, then yeah.

Or you could just play EVE, where no one gets to live in a bubble.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#359 - 2014-05-17 15:35:13 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Um, you guys do realise that FW is in lowsec don't you?


They don't.

They also don't realize that a lot of their elders and betters put more actual time and effort into FW than they have, and subsequently left because CCP dropped the ball on the whole 'providing an outlet to PvP' thing.

The only thing that changed for us when we left FW to get more targets is that we get to play plex games with farmers from the Minmatar militia as well as the Amarr. Our actual target count didn't go up much at all.

The final laughable issue is the friendless wonders who continually pipe up about 'pirate blobs.' Because no one in FW has ever blobbed anyone before, surely.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#360 - 2014-05-17 15:44:22 UTC
unbless83 wrote:
heya fozzie o/
could we not add a warp disruption bubble equivalent to 25-ish km beyond the capture radius in plexes (the bubble would need to override stabs and inty/ t3 immunity)?


I'm sure they could. The screaming and bleating from every FW player who lost ten pods per night trying to fight inside a series of guaranteed bubbles would deafen EVE.

You'd hand unquestioned plex combat superiority to sniper/skirmish fleets. One would be insane to take anything else in with a guaranteed 30-50km burn just to warp out again, and no clue where your enemy is set up in the plex. (Although you'd have a clue. 15-25km on the other side of the button, waiting to snipe things as they come on grid. No tackle needed, since the plex just gave it to them.)