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[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

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Ashley Animus
7th Temporal Lounge
#481 - 2014-05-13 14:32:45 UTC
They did a fine job as soon as people start calling a Missile Ship OP. And they look gorgeous.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#482 - 2014-05-13 14:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
The Barghest starts to look really lackluster when compared to the other pirate BSes.

BARGHEST: 8.75 effective launchers (at max skill), 50m3 drones, 20 total slots.
NIGHTMARE: 10 effective guns (at any skill), 75m3 drones, 19 total slots.
BHAALGORN: 8 effective guns (at any skill), 100m3 drones, 19 total slots.
RATTLESNAKE: 7.5 effective launchers (at max skill, kin/therm only), 125m3 bonused drones, 19 total slots.
VINDICATOR: 11 effective guns (at any skill), 125m3 drones, 20 total slots.
MACHARIAL: 11.7 effective guns (at max skill), 100m3 drones, 20 total slots.

Most direct comparison seems to be the vindicator or the macharial, at 20 slots.

So why does the Barghest lag behind both of them in both effective launchers AND drone bandwidth? What's the deal here?

On an unrelated note, why do the nightmare/bhaalgorn only get 19 slots...

Nightmare and Bhaalgorn get 19 slots because their guns are inherently doubled. That's simple.

I definitely agree with your assessment otherwise, though. Barghest is sorely in need of a 10%/lvl damage bonus, if not better.


Missile ships always had a lower number of "effective launchers". That made missile ships generally inferior in dps before the cruises were buffed, as each individual launcher was roughly compareable to individual gun. However, since they were buffed, the raw power of a cruise missile is considerably higher that that of a gun. An 8.75 launcher Barghest will be more than a match for an 11.7 gun Mach in combat. Of course, gunships still have the advantage of blaping a frig, something a missile ship will never do.
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid
#483 - 2014-05-13 14:34:56 UTC
Yay, tackle range bonuses on non-specialist ships. Yay, more missile projection and DPS.
This is disgusting.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#484 - 2014-05-13 14:35:04 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Feodor Romanov wrote:
I do not think that Mordu's is OP, they have too many fit and role restrictions. I think You guys just don't want to find any new opponent to Angels and Serpentis ships.


The mordus ships give bonuses to undersized missile launchers. So you don't need any more CPU, you just fit smaller launchers - they're already the best pvp ships in the game.



If you fit smaller launchers you do less damage than the cruiser, or any Missile battleship


You don't need more than 800 dps. Nothing else can catch you because you hold them at 20km with the scram. You can escape any time you like, for example by fitting an MJD, web, scram and AB combo.

What's going to get within scram range to stop you?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#485 - 2014-05-13 14:37:57 UTC
Feodor Romanov wrote:

Angels and Serpentis outclass every same class ship in the game. They also have anough speed to catch Mordu's. So Mordu's will be the opponent but not outclass this ships.


Serpentis ships will never get close enough to use their webs.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Feodor Romanov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#486 - 2014-05-13 14:43:06 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Feodor Romanov wrote:
I do not think that Mordu's is OP, they have too many fit and role restrictions. I think You guys just don't want to find any new opponent to Angels and Serpentis ships.

The battleship is probably fine. The cruiser looks borderline OP. The frigate is very clearly OP, that is plain for anyone with even a small amount of pvp experience to see.


I do not see a problem for DD or Dramiel to catch Mordu's frigate. Their speed is near the same. Can u catch it or Gormur will kite you depends only on pilots pvp skills. So that will be challenge but not OP.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#487 - 2014-05-13 14:46:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Last Wolf
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Feodor Romanov wrote:

Angels and Serpentis outclass every same class ship in the game. They also have anough speed to catch Mordu's. So Mordu's will be the opponent but not outclass this ships.


Serpentis ships will never get close enough to use their webs.




Because a single scram can hold down multiple ships... Roll

Since when did EVE become 1v1?

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Feodor Romanov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#488 - 2014-05-13 14:48:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Feodor Romanov
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Feodor Romanov wrote:

Angels and Serpentis outclass every same class ship in the game. They also have anough speed to catch Mordu's. So Mordu's will be the opponent but not outclass this ships.


Serpentis ships will never get close enough to use their webs.



Common. In such speed that have Serpentis, Angels and Mordus. There will be not so hard to brake orbit or get close to opponent. Dramiel is faster, DD can fit Fed Navy web also.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#489 - 2014-05-13 14:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mournful Conciousness
Last Wolf wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

Serpentis ships will never get close enough to use their webs.




Because a single scram can hold down multiple ships... Roll

Since when did EVE become 1v1?


A ship isn't OP if it requires minimum 2 ships to have any chance of defeating it, regardless of the skills of the pilots?

Feodor Romanov wrote:

Common. In such speed that have Serpentis, Angels and Mordus. There will be not so hard to brake orbit or get close to opponent. Dramiel is faster, DD can fit Fed Navy web also.


mordus ship will just scram you and kite away under AB.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Feodor Romanov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#490 - 2014-05-13 14:59:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Feodor Romanov
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Last Wolf wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

Serpentis ships will never get close enough to use their webs.




Because a single scram can hold down multiple ships... Roll

Since when did EVE become 1v1?


A ship isn't OP if it requires minimum 2 ships to have any chance of defeating it, regardless of the skills of the pilots?

Feodor Romanov wrote:

Common. In such speed that have Serpentis, Angels and Mordus. There will be not so hard to brake orbit or get close to opponent. Dramiel is faster, DD can fit Fed Navy web also.


mordus ship will just scram you and kite away under AB.


Ok, for example Mordu's have AB and 20 km scram (links and frac. point). So the Dramiel is faster and it can get to close anough range. If Mordu's point DD, DD can heat Fed Navy web (17 km without heating, with links) and get close anough to Mordu's ship. Where is OP?
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#491 - 2014-05-13 15:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Feodor Romanov wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Deerin wrote:
That frigate gives me shudders. Essentially it will be dealing around 150 dps from 40k range while keeping me pointed and going 4k+....and that's without links. I know what I'll be doing when I see this on short scan in a novice plex.

Admit it Dear Rise. you are introducing these ships, so that people will be more willing to accept TD's working againt missiles right?

Exactly. It will outclass nearly every frigate in the game. It should be able to kite and point ships of the class above without trouble as that is where I see it will fulfil it's role, but another frigate should be able to counter it, which is why it needs its speed to be put on par with the slowest of frigates, otherwise it will be impossible to tackle. It would still be tough to tackle and kill even with it's speed nerfed due to the 50% bonus to point range, but leaving it as it is will be insanely op.


Angels and Serpentis outclass every same class ship in the game. They also have anough speed to catch Mordu's. So Mordu's will be the opponent but not outclass this ships.

How do you work that out, other than simply stating a seemingly unfounded opinion. If anything the succubus is the most powerful pirate frigate in the game now, and the garmur even manages to blow that out the water.

Your posts seem as if you have been touched in the wrong place by an angel or serpentis ship in the past.

The only ship I can see which might be able to counter the Garmur is a Dramiel as it might be able to use it's inertia from the MWD to get past the extra scram range, and be able to close distance on the Garmur if using long range points.

If the ship only has one soft counter out of the entire array of frigs on offer then I'd say that is indicative of a ship being clearly OP.
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#492 - 2014-05-13 15:21:09 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Surely I can't be the only one that was hoping for a rapid launcher reload bonus...?


Apparently you are.

And stop calling us Shirley.

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
Feodor Romanov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#493 - 2014-05-13 15:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Feodor Romanov
"How do you work that out, other than simply stating a seemingly unfounded opinion. If anything the succubus is the most powerful pirate frigate in the game now, and the garmur even manages to blow that out the water.

Your posts seem as if you have been touched in the wrong place by an angel or serpentis ship in the past.

The only ship I can see which might be able to counter the Garmur is a Dramiel as it might be able to use it's inertia from the MWD to get past the extra scram range, and be able to close distance on the Garmur if using long range points.

If the ship only has one soft counter out of the entire array of frigs on offer then I'd say that is indicative of a ship being clearly OP."

I don't think that Succubus is the most powerful pirate frigate. It can be killed by any MWD / Dis frigate.
Yes I am touched to my heart by an angel and serpentis as most powerful PVP factions. So if you don't like only one counter, we need to nerf them. But who will fly trash for 100+kk ?
As I said before when speed of the ships in fight more then 4000 m/s, not so hard to break orbit or get to close range. So every fast anough ship have a good chance to fly away or fight.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#494 - 2014-05-13 16:05:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Can we at some point address how grossly overpowered light missiles are at applying damage at range compared to the other small lr-range weapons?

(Higher dps at range than any of the others, smaller tracking issues, immunity to TD's (which is ******* huge seeing how much td's are used in frigate kiting))

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#495 - 2014-05-13 16:08:11 UTC
the Barghest desperately needs more powergrid it has ~57% less compared to the mach while cruise launchers use ~45% less powergrid then 800mm ACs thus the Barghests base powergrid should be buffed to 12500 (~12%) to compensate
this is especially relevant with top end active tank fits http://i.imgur.com/CAEWiBc.png

before anyone comes and says "well fit a PD", the mach does not need any fitting mods and is not considered OP and so far in this thread the barghest seems to be considered underwhelming
I think this is the most subtile way of buffing the ship

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#496 - 2014-05-13 16:08:50 UTC
Quote:
If the ship only has one soft counter out of the entire array of frigs on offer then I'd say that is indicative of a ship being clearly OP.


Seconded.
I'd also like to say the fact that the main counter to a pirate ship is more pirate ships is also ringing some balance alarmbells for me.

A few years ago CCP slapped a gigantic buff on Angel ships, and the Dramiel in particular became basically the be-all-end-all of frigate combat. Looking at the current state of the game, and the look of this new frigate, I'm getting some major de-ja-vu here.
Leucippus
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#497 - 2014-05-13 16:24:51 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
A few years ago CCP slapped a gigantic buff on Angel ships, and the Dramiel in particular became basically the be-all-end-all of frigate combat. Looking at the current state of the game, and the look of this new frigate, I'm getting some major de-ja-vu here.


Here's one difference: Angels and Serpentis ships are available from agents at a number of stations and systems. Currently, at least five or six corporations bring them to market.

Mordus ships will be available from only one station system that happens to lie squarely in Goon space. The Goons must be laughing all the way to the bank right now. I congratulate the relevant CSMs, if congratulations are indeed due.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#498 - 2014-05-13 16:28:50 UTC
Leucippus wrote:
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
A few years ago CCP slapped a gigantic buff on Angel ships, and the Dramiel in particular became basically the be-all-end-all of frigate combat. Looking at the current state of the game, and the look of this new frigate, I'm getting some major de-ja-vu here.


Here's one difference: Angels and Serpentis ships are available from agents at a number of stations and systems. Currently, at least five or six corporations bring them to market.

Mordus ships will be available from only one station system that happens to lie squarely in Goon space. The Goons must be laughing all the way to the bank right now. I congratulate the relevant CSMs, if congratulations are indeed due.


Sometimes life seems hard and unfair. That's because it is. Does this mean that we should give up living?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Feodor Romanov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#499 - 2014-05-13 16:35:21 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Can we at some point address how grossly overpowered light missiles are at applying damage at range compared to the other small lr-range weapons?

(Higher dps at range than any of the others, smaller tracking issues, immunity to TD's (which is ******* huge seeing how much td's are used in frigate kiting))


Drones applying more dps at range more then light missiles can do. And they are imunne to all E-war. There is only few ships in EVE that can run from warriors damage.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#500 - 2014-05-13 16:37:21 UTC
Leucippus wrote:
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
A few years ago CCP slapped a gigantic buff on Angel ships, and the Dramiel in particular became basically the be-all-end-all of frigate combat. Looking at the current state of the game, and the look of this new frigate, I'm getting some major de-ja-vu here.


Here's one difference: Angels and Serpentis ships are available from agents at a number of stations and systems. Currently, at least five or six corporations bring them to market.

Mordus ships will be available from only one station system that happens to lie squarely in Goon space. The Goons must be laughing all the way to the bank right now. I congratulate the relevant CSMs, if congratulations are indeed due.


LOLOLOLOL.
Just a short hint: Goonies get a sh....
Mordus Angels live in the Mordus Legion 5Z station for over 7 years now. Btw their main goal is killing goonies :)

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.