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Oh I agree it is a problem; just not to the scale that you think it is... That said, I have called for a move to a 100 level system from a 10 level one several times for that reason.

I just disagree with you use of hyperbole as an adequate description of the situation.

I'm with this guy. My over researched BPCs are a steady source of isk, and that research took a lot of time. I still have a couple research jobs going that had to be queued MONTHS ago. One of the things that I don't think has been adequately answered is; was this change a priority? Are there thousands of pilots out there that constantly complain that the research mechanics are a hindrance to their gameplay? Is there a large special interest group in game that demands that everyone that has spent months and in some cases years suddenly needs to be on par with the noobs for fairness? Does it free up resources in the hardware server side? Researchacide gets two thumbs down from me!

Perhaps I should give more detail to my idea. I immediately see why you dislike my suggestion as there could potentially be thousands more "perfect" researched BPOs. So to clarify if i had a BPO researched to lvl 100 currently, a single "perfect" BPO would be generated using 10 of those lvls. The remaining 90 would then be applied as time to a second BPO of the same item under the new time tables. If there are enough levels to cross the thresh hold for a "perfect" BPO under the new tables for that specific BPO, it moves on to a third. If there is not enough time to make a second "perfect" BPO it brings it to the apropriate level under the new format. I am NOT suggesting that that a lvl 100 BPO be broken into 10 "perfect" BPOs. As i said before "some sort of limiting mechanic based on existing BPO researching multipliers". I left it open ended because I am well aware that i do not know the nitty gritty details of all the math. Now i can see where in some cases this would be an issue, as it will increase player productivity in a tight market. However, if we were to receive some sort of token for time [similar to extra skill points] could the not be exploited to create BPOs in exactly the same manner? The reason i prefer my example is it only increases productivity in the areas players have already invested themselves. I imagine some idiot out there who created hundreds of lvl 20 T1 ammo BPOs getting the aforementioned "tokens" and applying them to something much more costly. Sure time is time, but he did not have his capital tied up in a more expensive BPO while it was being researched.

Again I am only offering a different idea, one opposing "time tokens", to the BPOs that are researched beyond lvl 10.

yeah i too think its a good idea to spawn massive amounts of free bpos for idiots who spent ages on useless research

gimme gimme gimme

I too would like an opportunity for us to instantly make 10's of trillions. What could possibly go wrong.

From Greyscale's original blog:
" removing the weird outsized TE bonus on fuel blocks (I'm pretty sure that's my fault and I'm pretty sure I did it by accident),"

I think this "by accident" can describe pretty much all the stuff he'd planned for this industry overhaul. He doesn't understand the game, the mechanics or the unintended consequences. He doesn't think things through.

You want more copies, no problem, just a database update... (Oh, that messes up copy time and invention? Didn't realize that.)

No more remote research? Sure. Oh, corp theft? Didn't think about that.

Shorter copy times, yep... let's do that. Oh, I just drastically changed T2 BPO production?

Totally change the way research works, no problem. Oh, just broke rounding and will kill new players? Hmmm.

Teams that allow mega corps to outbid then crush any small corps? Excellent idea. Oh, wait.

Infinite slots, so 1,000,000 jobs can be running inside a single assembly array at a small POS? Sure. Ummm... any negative potential there I'm not seeing?

No standings needed for planting a POS. That won't change any game play, right?


Game design "By accident".

Man, the last twenty pages or so were an absolute blast to read, thanks for the enlightening commentary everyone.

Anyway, as per the other thread, I'm back from Fanfest and we've announced the split between Kronos and Crius, so now is a good time for an update!

I am hoping to do a follow-up blog to cover a bunch of things, but it doesn't hurt to outline most of them here first.

Things being worked on:

We are currently of a mind to shift invented BPCs so they have positive (or at worst 0) ME and TE figures. This a) prevents the removal of extra materials giving invention an extra-hard kick, and in particular b) prevents every invented T2 item from requiring two of the relevant T1 items (due to always rounding up materials). This will probably put all invented BPCs in the 1-5% ME/2-10% TE range, with decryptors adjusted to match. We may adjust T2 build costs upwards across the board to put the net T2 resource usage roughly where it is currently, so we don't end up nerfing the demand for T2 components. (This obviously also serves to close the gap somewhat between invention and T2 BPOs; this is not a goal here but it's an acceptable side-effect.)

We are going to unify ME and TE per-level research times on all blueprints. Currently it looks like most T2 and capital BPOs have different TE and ME times. We're planning on kicking T2 BPO times up to the higher of the two values, and capital ones down to the lower of the two.

Ytterbium is doing some legwork to allow you to build starbase structures in starbases, because that seemed reasonable.

As mentioned at Fanfest, we're looking very hard at a lowsec-only component assembly array (not for fuel, RAMs etc) that has a reasonable ME bonus, to allow lowsec cap manufacturers to stay ballpark competitive with nullsec builders after the refine changes.

Copy times are currently a bit weird. We are rebasing the authored values so they're all specified per-run rather than per-max-run as they more or less seem to be currently. (Copy pricing will also revolve around cost-per-run.)

We're probably going to pull the research ranks down significantly on capital ship blueprints, and potentially also on T1 ships TBD.

I've got a to-do note to revise upwards the max runs count on both cap components and nanite paste. We want to revisit how max runs works in the nearish future; its impact on invention prevents us from doing this immediately.

Things we are fairly sure we're not doing:

We're still very keen to stay with a 10-point system. We acknowledge the advantages of 100 points, but don't feel it's hugely compelling from a usability point of view, or that it's a sufficiently important part of post-Crius industry to want to spend a lot of extra time on it.

I looked into getting numbers for T2 ship use responsiveness to cost changes, but we determined that it probably wasn't worth the analysis needed just to resolve a side-discussion in a forum thread :)

Still on my to-do list:

Look at Gallente outposts. This may involve kicking T2 copy times right back up again, that's the simplest solution available :)

Have another look at NPC nullsec stations, see if they need some assistance.

Have another look at the way we're scaling research levels, to see in particular if the kink around level 9 is acceptable.

Sort out what we're doing with Molden Heath bonuses (re DUST )

To discuss:

We're currently leaning heavily towards calculating ME for the job as a whole, not per-run, probably with a limiter that requires every run always consumes at least one of every material (to prevent 9 apocs -> 10 paladins shenanigans).

This obviously has a knock-on effect on current "perfect ME" blueprints, as the ability to add up all those roundings over multiple runs will create gains that weren't currently possible. This is already going to be the case in many scenarios with the various additional ME bonuses available in Crius, so there's no obvious strong reason not to, but we wanted to run this past people for opinions obviously :)



Anyway, that's what's up, I'm going to answer a few specific posts next.

that would be a really nice change, offers some very interesting optimisation options when considering job length. you may or may not have to adjust some material requirements to make sure that overall material consumption remains the same. the numbers can quickly ad up towards some significant changes for certain items, mainly capital ships, POS mods and T2 components. luckily, you have won some additional time by delaying the release

good to see you are working on adding POS mods to the stuff that can me made in a POS. would be the first time that i can say that i made an actual impact on the game by telling the devs about something :D

Do you mean the change in sell/buy rates or ?? Production changes? or ??

Did you read the part where he acknowledged this and said they would increase resources needed to build something ie - making it cost the same? I bolded it for you so you dont miss it.