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[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

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Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#301 - 2014-05-12 22:45:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Voyager Arran
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Gorski Car wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
kiting missile ships. boring. this is the probably the least interesting race to start with.

should have started with EOM. black amarr ships that shoot hybrids.

would have been more interesting.


what would be interesting is if they re-did SOE ships to not be cloaking pve ships with laser cap usage bonuses and no lowslots.


Would be even more interesting if you git gud


you



Confirming BlackOps Ishtar is useless for PvP
Naomi Anthar
#302 - 2014-05-12 22:48:42 UTC
i want to be positive about those ships ... but trust me they are DISGUSTINGLY OP ... gotta farm them in low sec belts. Thats good for low sec dweller like me.

But still for sake of all what is sacred - they are above all other pirate ships without doubt.linked mordus frig will point **** offgrid. Will hit np and on top of that hard.

And what the hell with damage bonus ? Frig 125% and 3 launchers ? isnt it 6.75 effective turrets ? What the hell ?

Same with others , cruiser 10 effective launchers + full flight of drones ? Are you on drugs CCP ?

And all damage types without penalty 10 effecitve launchers. Super fast, what can go wrong ?
Other pirate ships look like impairor compared to old daredevil (mordus).
Zamyslinski
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#303 - 2014-05-12 22:52:31 UTC
20% scram range bonus or gtfo
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#304 - 2014-05-12 22:56:01 UTC
Really don't like the fact that these are Gallente. Aren't there enough Gallente pirate factions that you don't need to add another? I understand it's a matter of lore, but still.

It's a bit disappointing to see 5/7 Pirate factions be part Gallente. Better hope you all have Gallente trained, because apparently that's the single most useful race to train to unlock almost all pirate factions.

Serious under-representation of the other races here.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#305 - 2014-05-12 22:57:18 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Slaptastic wrote:
Can someone break down some math for me while I'm at work?

What DPS can the cruiser push? With HAMs and t2 damage missiles, and caldari navy missiles?

I did some rudimentary math and I came up with 696 dps using 3 BCU II's and T2 anti-ship missiles. Obviously damage application will be less with T2, but I plan on fighting BC's (shouldn't be as much of an issue with sig radius?).

The ship looks awesome, and as far as I can tell the stats look good. 2,900 shields looks way better to me than the caracal's 2250 or whatever it is. Not a huge bump, but it helps.

5x HAM II's (CNR Inferno, T2)

10mn MWD II
Warp Disruptor II
Target Painter II?
Invul II
Large Extender II


3x BCU II
Nanofiber II
(DCU II if I drop a BCU II?)

May not all fit with CPU and fitting requirements. I'll have to work on that.


0.75 more effective turrets than a raven, and even less CPU, on top of a useless point bonus.



The point bonus isuseful on the cruiser.

The Faction battleships are much ahrder to make interestign for reeal eve (that measn not pve). BEcause battleships are very har dto use in small scale PVP (and you will not see fleets of pirate battleships often)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#306 - 2014-05-12 22:59:39 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Slaptastic wrote:
Can someone break down some math for me while I'm at work?

What DPS can the cruiser push? With HAMs and t2 damage missiles, and caldari navy missiles?

I did some rudimentary math and I came up with 696 dps using 3 BCU II's and T2 anti-ship missiles. Obviously damage application will be less with T2, but I plan on fighting BC's (shouldn't be as much of an issue with sig radius?).

The ship looks awesome, and as far as I can tell the stats look good. 2,900 shields looks way better to me than the caracal's 2250 or whatever it is. Not a huge bump, but it helps.

5x HAM II's (CNR Inferno, T2)

10mn MWD II
Warp Disruptor II
Target Painter II?
Invul II
Large Extender II


3x BCU II
Nanofiber II
(DCU II if I drop a BCU II?)

May not all fit with CPU and fitting requirements. I'll have to work on that.


0.75 more effective turrets than a raven, and even less CPU, on top of a useless point bonus.



The point bonus isuseful on the cruiser.

The Faction battleships are much ahrder to make interestign for reeal eve (that measn not pve). BEcause battleships are very har dto use in small scale PVP (and you will not see fleets of pirate battleships often)


Must I was looking at the BS anyway Ugh oopsie.

The cruiser looks sort of workable. The battleship I have doubts about.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#307 - 2014-05-12 23:01:06 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
The Barghest starts to look really lackluster when compared to the other pirate BSes.

BARGHEST: 8.75 effective launchers (at max skill), 50m3 drones, 20 total slots.
NIGHTMARE: 10 effective guns (at any skill), 75m3 drones, 19 total slots.
BHAALGORN: 8 effective guns (at any skill), 100m3 drones, 19 total slots.
RATTLESNAKE: 7.5 effective launchers (at max skill, kin/therm only), 125m3 bonused drones, 19 total slots.
VINDICATOR: 11 effective guns (at any skill), 125m3 drones, 20 total slots.
MACHARIAL: 11.7 effective guns (at max skill), 100m3 drones, 20 total slots.

Most direct comparison seems to be the vindicator or the macharial, at 20 slots.

So why does the Barghest lag behind both of them in both effective launchers AND drone bandwidth? What's the deal here?

On an unrelated note, why do the nightmare/bhaalgorn only get 19 slots...



REally need that explained? BEcause missilesa re not turrets. And 8.75 Torpedo Luanchers deal WAY more damage than 11 800mm AC that are in deep falloff. MIssiles are too easy to get overpowered if you go to extreme values.


MIssile shisp have alwas been ahrder to balance

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Naomi Anthar
#308 - 2014-05-12 23:01:20 UTC
ok just to show how underpowered this frig is :

DD - 6 effective turrets (stupid op but yeah its there)
succubus - 5 effective turrets
Cruor - 4 effective turrets + 2 drones
worm - cant compare but sure not bad dps of drones + launchers
dramiel - 4 effective turret + 3 drones

The new "balanced" stuff - 6.75 effective turrets.

The succubus looks like its class below in term of dps. Even the DD is behind lol (maybe not if you go blasters).

The long t2 point 36km range pre oh, pre faction , pre links.

What can go wrong ...


If you want to justify it by fact that frig doesnt have utility high - then dont even try - dd or succubus would gladly give away utility high for turret.

The Mordus Cruiser is also what the heck :
10 effective turrets + 5 light drones, lets see competition : Scythe fleet - 6 effective launchers +5 drones , Nosprey - not better.

The gap is just too huge, damage is out of control, combined with massive fight control of speed + point range.

The only sane ship is BS - maybe even too weak.

What is my suggestion : buff slightly BS - give it 8th turret and nerf frig/cruiser. Like cut 5% per damage from both.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#309 - 2014-05-12 23:04:01 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
The Barghest starts to look really lackluster when compared to the other pirate BSes.

BARGHEST: 8.75 effective launchers (at max skill), 50m3 drones, 20 total slots.
NIGHTMARE: 10 effective guns (at any skill), 75m3 drones, 19 total slots.
BHAALGORN: 8 effective guns (at any skill), 100m3 drones, 19 total slots.
RATTLESNAKE: 7.5 effective launchers (at max skill, kin/therm only), 125m3 bonused drones, 19 total slots.
VINDICATOR: 11 effective guns (at any skill), 125m3 drones, 20 total slots.
MACHARIAL: 11.7 effective guns (at max skill), 100m3 drones, 20 total slots.

Most direct comparison seems to be the vindicator or the macharial, at 20 slots.

So why does the Barghest lag behind both of them in both effective launchers AND drone bandwidth? What's the deal here?

On an unrelated note, why do the nightmare/bhaalgorn only get 19 slots...



REally need that explained? BEcause missilesa re not turrets. And 8.75 Torpedo Luanchers deal WAY more damage than 11 800mm AC that are in deep falloff. MIssiles are too easy to get overpowered if you go to extreme values.


MIssile shisp have alwas been ahrder to balance


Torps? Really?

So how many scary PvP torp ships above bombers have you ever ran across? Torps are a joke against smaller hulls, and while the native 30km range with basic ammo is nice and all, appication is still going to be garbage.

Plus a point bonus on a battleship makes baby jesus cry.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#310 - 2014-05-12 23:05:07 UTC
The cruiser is fine. It's still way worse than the Ishtar, just like all the other cruisers. At least the scram bonus gives it a possible niche that the Ishtar doesn't already dominate.
Zamyslinski
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#311 - 2014-05-12 23:06:55 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
ok just to show how underpowered this frig is :

DD - 6 effective turrets (stupid op but yeah its there)
succubus - 5 effective turrets
Cruor - 4 effective turrets + 2 drones
worm - cant compare but sure not bad dps of drones + launchers
dramiel - 4 effective turret + 3 drones

The new "balanced" stuff - 6.75 effective turrets.

The succubus looks like its class below in term of dps. Even the DD is behind lol (maybe not if you go blasters).

The long t2 point 36km range pre oh, pre faction , pre links.

What can go wrong ...


If you want to justify it by fact that frig doesnt have utility high - then dont even try - dd or succubus would gladly give away utility high for turret.

The Mordus Cruiser is also what the heck :
10 effective turrets + 5 light drones, lets see competition : Scythe fleet - 6 effective launchers +5 drones , Nosprey - not better.

The gap is just too huge, damage is out of control, combined with massive fight control of speed + point range.

The only sane ship is BS - maybe even too weak.

What is my suggestion : buff slightly BS - give it 8th turret and nerf frig/cruiser. Like cut 5% per damage from both.



and add that damn 20% scram range
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#312 - 2014-05-12 23:14:05 UTC
I love the drop mechanics on these. Something really worth fighting over in lowsec belts.

Are the rats that drop them intended to be a) soloable at low skills, b) soloable but only at high skills or c) not likely to be soloable by subcapitals?

And are they designed to be engaged by PVE fits or PVP fits (the latter would entail a predisposition to warping off at low armor unless pointed)?

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
progodlegend
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#313 - 2014-05-12 23:16:24 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:

I though we were done with this kind of confusing bonus? Why not give them less velocity bonus and do away with the flight penalty? It only matters for the first wave or missiles anyway.

Among other reasons: faster missiles are harder to firewall.


This was brought up by the CSM as an added benefit to the ships velocity bonus, so I'm glad that some people are picking up on that.
Nac Lac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#314 - 2014-05-12 23:26:11 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
ok just to show how underpowered this frig is :

DD - 6 effective turrets (stupid op but yeah its there)
succubus - 5 effective turrets
Cruor - 4 effective turrets + 2 drones
worm - cant compare but sure not bad dps of drones + launchers
dramiel - 4 effective turret + 3 drones

The new "balanced" stuff - 6.75 effective turrets.

The succubus looks like its class below in term of dps. Even the DD is behind lol (maybe not if you go blasters).

The long t2 point 36km range pre oh, pre faction , pre links.

What can go wrong ...


If you want to justify it by fact that frig doesnt have utility high - then dont even try - dd or succubus would gladly give away utility high for turret.

The Mordus Cruiser is also what the heck :
10 effective turrets + 5 light drones, lets see competition : Scythe fleet - 6 effective launchers +5 drones , Nosprey - not better.

The gap is just too huge, damage is out of control, combined with massive fight control of speed + point range.

The only sane ship is BS - maybe even too weak.

What is my suggestion : buff slightly BS - give it 8th turret and nerf frig/cruiser. Like cut 5% per damage from both.


I know its 15 pages already, but try to read a bit more than the op before posting? As has been pointed out several times, the frigate doesn't have the native targetting range nor the capacitor regen that would make it an utter monster. Still rough on details, yes. However, traits and fitting are only part of the equation. To match the crow in tackle, its more squishy and less dps. To match the tank and gank, it caps itself out quickly.

As a new resident of Lo-sec, a longer point sounds lovely, even on a battleship. Get dropped by a bigger fleet? That longer point could win the field by snagging the one more kiter or logi than your fleets tackle could hold otherwise.
Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#315 - 2014-05-12 23:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Priestess Lin
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
First.



not you again. Ugh

When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#316 - 2014-05-12 23:34:10 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Really don't like the fact that these are Gallente. Aren't there enough Gallente pirate factions that you don't need to add another? I understand it's a matter of lore, but still.

It's a bit disappointing to see 5/7 Pirate factions be part Gallente. Better hope you all have Gallente trained, because apparently that's the single most useful race to train to unlock almost all pirate factions.

Serious under-representation of the other races here.


amen brother.

missile based pirate faction ships were the only niche left to be filled other then some sort of minning or industry pirate faction and they made it gal/caldari.

funny thing is i have both trained to 5 and all missile skills to v plus shields to v so its not like its going to hurt me...

i was just hoping for a cal/min mix as before SOE ships we needed a min/cal and a gal/amarr. now its kinda unfair for those who dont pick gal as a starting race.

plus minmatar resist would have been much better IMO>

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#317 - 2014-05-12 23:46:58 UTC
Quote:
im worried about applying HAM


Are you one of those ones still under the impression that HAMs apply their damage worse than HMLs?

Because they really really don't.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#318 - 2014-05-12 23:58:30 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
That does sound nicer, is there a typo though? do you mean +1 MEDIUM? Cannot really see the need for another low? maybe I'm missing a trick here. But I still will buy the ship as it is,
Who am I kidding every quiet ls I can find, I will rat or kill ratters in.Big smile

Nope. This way you have the option of armor or shield-tanking it, as well as running a nano fit with a full complement of BCU's and DC.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#319 - 2014-05-13 00:00:16 UTC
While getting new ships is completely awesome, the Garmur is already giving me grey hairs. It's like a hookbill on steroids. You can't really fight back and since the dps is decent you can't really tank it either.

Just seems OP to me.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#320 - 2014-05-13 00:13:58 UTC
All the other Pirate Factions get a hidden bonus:

Angel Cartel ... 50% warp speed increase.
Sisters of Eve ... Covert Ops cloak and logistics
Guristas ... Enhanced passive shield recharge, "Hero Drones"
Blood Raiders ... Unlimited vampire, Marauder-like turret damage bonus
Sansha ... Marauder-like turret damage bonus
Serpentis ... Beast. Nuff said...

Mordu's Legion ships should also receive something unique, and I propose a 50% reduction to missile launcher reload time (5 for normal launchers, 17.5-seconds for rapid launchers).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.