Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hey Grath, I don't the Garmur is overpowered, I even suggested in my post that it's probably underpowered given the terrible capacitor stats on it.

All of the capacitor stats on these ships are trash. The Griffin has more Cap per second than the Cruiser does.
The Stabber has more cap per second than the Battleship does.

You will need to fit an Injector on everyone of these ships if you plan on kiting.

Keep in mind that's 28km before skills are applied. With Long Range Targeting IV / V, that's 33.5 / 35 km lock range; still too short to make full use of its abilities, but not quite so oppressive.

I wouldn't worry overmuch about this replacing the Crow, though. While it does a lot of things really well and will probably become a terror in Lowsec duels, part of what makes LML Interceptors so powerful is their sig tanks; a 75% reduction to MWD sig bloom is a huge, enormous boon to a ship that doesn't care about its own tracking, and the Garmur doesn't get it. Not such a big deal when you're in a 1v1 against an opponent who can't hit back, but easily a fatal difference when you're trying to do something like a Crow Fleet against armed targets (and also are in a much more expensive hull).

Why would you add another low slot to a ship that so obviously is supposed to be shield tanked?

Yea, 100% man, people screaming about their power levels aren't really looking at the broader picture of what they'll fight against in the current environments you'll see them in.

The ships have some strong power, don't get me wrong, but the down sides are super evident when you look at the package as a whole.

Damps, any neuting at all for any reason, blank them out.

Oddly though, they have a slightly higher SS than most Pirate faction BS (which we both know will me F-All when EC300s get on them but its still nice and a nod towards their caldari background)

Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, and upwards of 500, possibly 600 with the cruiser. This is going to be amazing.

The missile bonuses you have set up are absolutely brilliant. The massive velocity increase means that damage can apply more realistically, especially with javelins on the garmur. The dps on the cruiser and frigate might be a little too powerful, but we'll have to see. I'm extremely interested to see how their stats play out in a solo/small gang fight.

I am also extremely wary of the fact that while you are admittedly doing a decent job of making them found in asteroid belt drops, the alarming fact remains that you are going to bottleneck the SINGLE GORRAM STATION in the game that they own to hell, and turn it a clusterf*ck horrible beyond words can describe.
The ONLY viable way for you to solve this issue, that eliminates severe issues with availability and player bottlenecking, is to instead of adding entire stations, add some in-space agents in their area of space in pure blind, and possibly elsewhere. Every faction in the game has them as cosmos agents, but it's fairly easy to make these just basic event agents that you can repeatedly work for.

This works for several reasons:

Firstly, the open-space availability means that people can pick these up in cloaky ships to avoid getting splattered on the undock by the legions of pirates who will no doubt be camping the SINGLE GORRAM STATION in the game they own. Already you are starting to see people piling into the mordus system in anticipation, and piracy is on the rise around there. Make the in-space event agents a reality along with keeping the drop system, and I promise you that you will receive no legitimate negative feedback.

Secondly, the introduction of in-space agents follows lore lines appropriately, with them being mercenaries and all. It makes a great deal of sense that you'd find a lot of them setting up their own shop in space for capsuleers to line up to, and assist them in subsidizing their missions. Agents in space is an extremely appropriate way to handle pve in nullsec to start out with, but it makes far more sense for a mobile military group like Mordu's Legion to be operating with that dynamic. Having them in lowsec areas around different places in empire space would be ideal. What would you think about adding some of their npc event agents in FW space?

Thirdly, you can bet that with as strong as you're making them that the demand for them is going to be just as absurdly high as the sisters ships. These are going to be premium hot-ticket items as popular with pirates and elite small-combat groups as the angel cartel ships once were before the balance. With this current setup, you will not be able through any stretch of the imagination be able to have the supply keep up with the demand, so it is more than likely that once the prices do level off, the garmur will stay at upwards of 200 million isk, and the Orthrus will cost more than a tengu that can kick its ass in a fight any day of the week.

Please consider all the points I have raised here, since while the lowsec seeding idea is a good one, traditional forms of pve for ship acquisition have to be upheld for the sake of the market. You will cry out in terror on release day when you realize how badly this is going for you, so please take a look at the plan for their distribution now, while you have time to experiment then after release day when you have thousands of angry players screaming at you from the murderous cesspool that the undock in their pure blind station will be.

EDIT: After reading through the comments section, I can safely say that it is CONFIRMED that they will have lowsec agents. Where they will be we don't know, but this alleviates some of my concerns. Seeding more of them both in low and null WOULD still be ideal though, to prevent bottlenecking. Having more than a few lvl 4 agents to choose from would be excellent. since I literally have them as my highest standing faction in the game.

Wow.
Well losec ratting will get VERY popular!
Need to digest figures, and this seems a great Pirate ship in the way the rattlesnake Isn't.
CCP. Nice Job!
glad you were able to spend the time needed on this one.

Hmm...I think I will revise my numbers somewhat. 200-220 dps seems more accurate. But I am right about that cruiser. The dps is going to be frightening on it.

I'm sorry, but i'm pretty sure your maths is out on this, from what i can work out the Garmur actually has the same base capacitor and more regen than a Fed Navy Comet, likewise the BS has better cap regen than a domi navy, so it really isnt as bad as you think it is.

Not using t2 ammo on t2 rockets?

T2 rockets don't apply that well to most Frigates (Particularly AB ones), even when you have a web.