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[Kronos] Factional Warfare Complex Improvements

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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#161 - 2014-05-11 07:08:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Angelus Ryan wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Using short scan you have no advantage at all - 1 ship (tackle) enters plex 5 or 6 more sit at a warpin 15 Au off until the person in the plex is tackled..


Are you entirely unable to disengage against a single opponent to escape in the window after his friends appear on scan and before they appear on your grid after warping to the gate and activating it? This takes quite a bit of time.

I suggest you re-think the ships you fly and/or how you fly them.

Flying solo in 1v1 combat is never a guarantee, and knowing how to choose fights you can win and/or keeping an open avenue of escape is a big part of solo flying and one of its challenges.

It seems like you want guaranteed 1v1 arenas full of LP. This is not what FW is.

I am sorry, but perhaps you need to re-think your FW participation and head to some player-organized 1v1 tournaments instead.

You are correct - there are no guarantees in 1 v 1 combat but it is consensual, both parties have agreed to participate in a fight with a reward attached.
What FW is now - a multitude of plex farmers and plex farming alts, combined with a bunch of sad asses complaining because they can't kill them. If this is really what FW is supposed to be about then it is a useless mechanic. Which will continue to be used to farm LP for faction items.

Is your dislike of the idea of consensual Pvp in a plex based on a fear you may not win? No-one says you have to stay and fight, you are penalized if you don't though. I would think the "WCS Plexing is bad" group would welcome such a change.

How would my idea be bad for FW and PVP content in it?
If anything it would create more Pvp content.

I would like to hear your opinion of what FW is - You have stated what you think it isn't

Why do you say i should leave FW, I want to create content for FW, content that is available nowhere else in Eve. That is bad why?

Player organised 1 v 1 tournaments?? Do they still exist, the last few I saw advertised ended up being called off due to lack of participation. Plus, I don't spend 24/7 in eve in the hope someone decides to run a tournament.

The concept I suggest could be extended to Cruisers, Battle Cruisers and Battleships as well. It would mean adding / changing some complexes but could be an arena where 1 player engages another to fight for their chosen faction. Reduce or even remove LP payouts for FW arena's and instead the outcome of a fight could affect system control directly.
1 v 1, 5 v 5, 10 v 10, the possibilities are really endless and would add "different" content.
All through history leaders have sent out elite groups of troops to fight with the aim of changing the direction a war is taking. Why should space be any different?

As things stand now, I make enough out of plex farming with an alt and engage in Pvp when I want to. I see no reason to change this

PS; If you are unclear on my motives and how this could work to add to FW content, feel free to PM me, I'd be glad to discuss it with you.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#162 - 2014-05-11 07:33:08 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Angelus Ryan wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Using short scan you have no advantage at all - 1 ship (tackle) enters plex 5 or 6 more sit at a warpin 15 Au off until the person in the plex is tackled..


Are you entirely unable to disengage against a single opponent to escape in the window after his friends appear on scan and before they appear on your grid after warping to the gate and activating it? This takes quite a bit of time.

I suggest you re-think the ships you fly and/or how you fly them.

Flying solo in 1v1 combat is never a guarantee, and knowing how to choose fights you can win and/or keeping an open avenue of escape is a big part of solo flying and one of its challenges.

It seems like you want guaranteed 1v1 arenas full of LP. This is not what FW is.

I am sorry, but perhaps you need to re-think your FW participation and head to some player-organized 1v1 tournaments instead.

You are correct - there are no guarantees in 1 v 1 combat but it is consensual, both parties have agreed to participate in a fight with a reward attached.
What FW is now - a multitude of plex farmers and plex farming alts, combined with a bunch of sad asses complaining because they can't kill them. If this is really what FW is supposed to be about then it is a useless mechanic. Which will continue to be used to farm LP for faction items.

Is your dislike of the idea of consensual Pvp in a plex based on a fear you may not win? No-one says you have to stay and fight, you are penalized if you don't though. I would think the "WCS Plexing is bad" group would welcome such a change.

How would my idea be bad for FW and PVP content in it?
If anything it would create more Pvp content.

I would like to hear your opinion of what FW is - You have stated what you think it isn't

Why do you say i should leave FW, I want to create content for FW, content that is available nowhere else in Eve. That is bad why?

Player organised 1 v 1 tournaments?? Do they still exist, the last few I saw advertised ended up being called off due to lack of participation. Plus, I don't spend 24/7 in eve in the hope someone decides to run a tournament.

As things stand now, I make enough out of plex farming with an alt and engage in Pvp when I want to. I see no reason to change this

PS; If you are unclear on my motives and how this could work to add to FW content, feel free to PM me, I'd be glad to discuss it with you.

You seem to think there is a grand, overarching end-game for FW. There is not. It is an endless pendulum designed to provide a healthy environment for small-gang and solo PvP. Whether the participants in this PvP are factional or neutral is entirely irrelevant. If you want more meaningful sovereignty warfare there is a place for that.

Is fun being had with lots of ships being killed in FW regions? Job done.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#163 - 2014-05-11 07:34:48 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Quote:
Nearly as boring as being a plexer trying to avoid getting ganked in a plex by 5 or 6 hunters.

Quote:
FW should 1st be about FW and 2nd Pvp.


Quote:
A solo plexer will not try to fight when there is a huge possibility he is going to be outnumbered 6 to 1, who in their right mind would?



Quote:
A mechanic that locks the gate when someone enters to contest a plex, I'll never fit stabs again.
Mechanic as it is that allows an unlimited amount into a plex to "contest", the stabs stay.


Sgt Ocker wrote:
Quote:
---Idea for gated plexes---
Player 1, FW player enters a plex and starts the countdown.
Player 2, Activates gate to enter plex and engage player 1.
Gate is Locked
Player 1 and player 2 engage in a fight for the plex (or just 1 v 1 pvp)
When only 1 ship is left alive in the plex the gate becomes unlocked again for the process to start over.

A suggestion, Give sufficient time between people warping in to fight you to recover from the last one, otherwise they will blob you with a death of a thousand cuts. a better alternative is that, If you have killed the invader, you have "won the plex" through combat

If the player who has the timer simply warps off, the timer reverts to the player who enters to contest it. If the player left in the plex is not a member of FW the timer simply resets.


For those looking for Consensual Pvp (something not widely available right now), it would work well.
WCS Plex farmers would be the only real losers by having timers reset.

It then becomes a choice of - Fit your ship to earn your LP, be prepared to take a loss in hourly earnings with constantly having plexes reset or train for Exhumers.

There are still plenty of Pvp opportunities in FW space outside plexes. So roaming gangs should not complain because they can't "EWAR ONLY" a solo plex runner.


This Is much more like it, A good idea, and a good suggestion

Hunting "farmers" is meant to be a game of cat and mouse.

The " Hunters want the Plex to be a mousetrap"

Do they really believe that CCP's changes will encourage their kills to stay and be easy kills?
Are mice going to have their feet nailed to the floor, and forced blow trumpets before the Cats are happy?

Faction warfare was never offered to the player base as a source of easy kills.
People should work for it.
Your suggestion rebalances that nicely.
Now people entering a Gated plex do not know whether they are approaching a mouse or another meaner cat, and no one will help them.
Off grid boosting in a Gated plex also has absolutely no place in 1V1 PvP

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#164 - 2014-05-11 07:46:12 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Angelus Ryan wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Using short scan you have no advantage at all - 1 ship (tackle) enters plex 5 or 6 more sit at a warpin 15 Au off until the person in the plex is tackled..


Are you entirely unable to disengage against a single opponent to escape in the window after his friends appear on scan and before they appear on your grid after warping to the gate and activating it? This takes quite a bit of time.

I suggest you re-think the ships you fly and/or how you fly them.

Flying solo in 1v1 combat is never a guarantee, and knowing how to choose fights you can win and/or keeping an open avenue of escape is a big part of solo flying and one of its challenges.

It seems like you want guaranteed 1v1 arenas full of LP. This is not what FW is.

I am sorry, but perhaps you need to re-think your FW participation and head to some player-organized 1v1 tournaments instead.

You are correct - there are no guarantees in 1 v 1 combat but it is consensual, both parties have agreed to participate in a fight with a reward attached.
What FW is now - a multitude of plex farmers and plex farming alts, combined with a bunch of sad asses complaining because they can't kill them. If this is really what FW is supposed to be about then it is a useless mechanic. Which will continue to be used to farm LP for faction items.

Is your dislike of the idea of consensual Pvp in a plex based on a fear you may not win? No-one says you have to stay and fight, you are penalized if you don't though. I would think the "WCS Plexing is bad" group would welcome such a change.

How would my idea be bad for FW and PVP content in it?
If anything it would create more Pvp content.

I would like to hear your opinion of what FW is - You have stated what you think it isn't

Why do you say i should leave FW, I want to create content for FW, content that is available nowhere else in Eve. That is bad why?

Player organised 1 v 1 tournaments?? Do they still exist, the last few I saw advertised ended up being called off due to lack of participation. Plus, I don't spend 24/7 in eve in the hope someone decides to run a tournament.

As things stand now, I make enough out of plex farming with an alt and engage in Pvp when I want to. I see no reason to change this

PS; If you are unclear on my motives and how this could work to add to FW content, feel free to PM me, I'd be glad to discuss it with you.

You seem to think there is a grand, overarching end-game for FW. There is not. It is an endless pendulum designed to provide a healthy environment for small-gang and solo PvP. Whether the participants in this PvP are factional or neutral is entirely irrelevant. If you want more meaningful sovereignty warfare there is a place for that.

Is fun being had with lots of ships being killed in FW regions? Job done.

I agree with Sgt Ocker. Gated plexes should be locked to 1v1, large are suitable for small Gang.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#165 - 2014-05-11 07:47:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
X Gallentius wrote:
Yeah actually just not being able to collect lp if your ship has a cloak/stab is pretty straightforward and simple way to increase risk while not hurting other forms of gameplay.



This, is that simple. Stabs or ckoak equals 0 LP.

Problem solved.

The Tears Must Flow
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#166 - 2014-05-11 07:57:09 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Angelus Ryan wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Using short scan you have no advantage at all - 1 ship (tackle) enters plex 5 or 6 more sit at a warpin 15 Au off until the person in the plex is tackled..


Are you entirely unable to disengage against a single opponent to escape in the window after his friends appear on scan and before they appear on your grid after warping to the gate and activating it? This takes quite a bit of time.

I suggest you re-think the ships you fly and/or how you fly them.

Flying solo in 1v1 combat is never a guarantee, and knowing how to choose fights you can win and/or keeping an open avenue of escape is a big part of solo flying and one of its challenges.

It seems like you want guaranteed 1v1 arenas full of LP. This is not what FW is.

I am sorry, but perhaps you need to re-think your FW participation and head to some player-organized 1v1 tournaments instead.

You are correct - there are no guarantees in 1 v 1 combat but it is consensual, both parties have agreed to participate in a fight with a reward attached.
What FW is now - a multitude of plex farmers and plex farming alts, combined with a bunch of sad asses complaining because they can't kill them. If this is really what FW is supposed to be about then it is a useless mechanic. Which will continue to be used to farm LP for faction items.

Is your dislike of the idea of consensual Pvp in a plex based on a fear you may not win? No-one says you have to stay and fight, you are penalized if you don't though. I would think the "WCS Plexing is bad" group would welcome such a change.

How would my idea be bad for FW and PVP content in it?
If anything it would create more Pvp content.

I would like to hear your opinion of what FW is - You have stated what you think it isn't

Why do you say i should leave FW, I want to create content for FW, content that is available nowhere else in Eve. That is bad why?

Player organised 1 v 1 tournaments?? Do they still exist, the last few I saw advertised ended up being called off due to lack of participation. Plus, I don't spend 24/7 in eve in the hope someone decides to run a tournament.

As things stand now, I make enough out of plex farming with an alt and engage in Pvp when I want to. I see no reason to change this

PS; If you are unclear on my motives and how this could work to add to FW content, feel free to PM me, I'd be glad to discuss it with you.

You seem to think there is a grand, overarching end-game for FW. There is not. It is an endless pendulum designed to provide a healthy environment for small-gang and solo PvP. Whether the participants in this PvP are factional or neutral is entirely irrelevant. If you want more meaningful sovereignty warfare there is a place for that.

Is fun being had with lots of ships being killed in FW regions? Job done.

I agree with Sgt Ocker. Gated plexes should be locked to 1v1, large are suitable for small Gang.

Sorry, the idea is just bad and I say this with the vast majority of my kills being solo in FW regions. Some of the best experiences you get as a solo player are against multiple opponents. Splitting the blob and killing a few of them is immensely satisfying. Even killing one of them and escaping before they catch you is great. Embrace it.

I could in principle support a 'Junior' plex which was locked to two people only. But I suspect it would be too easy to game with an alt to lock people of out your plex.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#167 - 2014-05-11 07:59:28 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Yeah actually just not being able to collect lp if your ship has a cloak/stab is pretty straightforward and simple way to increase risk while not hurting other forms of gameplay.



This, is that simple. Stabs or ckoak equals 0 LP.

Problem solved.


No not problem solved at all.
This addresses nothing about FW.
It removes anyone who wishes to use Plexes to gain income.
No mouse or Farmer will stay to die of a blob leaping through the gate.
no one is stupid enough to commit suicide in a game for your amusement.
It does not solve faction warfare, it kills it.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
#168 - 2014-05-11 08:09:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelus Ryan
Sgt Ocker wrote:

You are correct - there are no guarantees in 1 v 1 combat but it is consensual, both parties have agreed to participate in a fight with a reward attached.
What FW is now - a multitude of plex farmers and plex farming alts, combined with a bunch of sad asses complaining because they can't kill them. If this is really what FW is supposed to be about then it is a useless mechanic. Which will continue to be used to farm LP for faction items.

Is your dislike of the idea of consensual Pvp in a plex based on a fear you may not win? No-one says you have to stay and fight, you are penalized if you don't though. I would think the "WCS Plexing is bad" group would welcome such a change.


Overall, I agree with your wish to penalize people who run, as I have posted before in the thread. Timers ticking back up would be a good start for this.

As for your posts, I am merely "attacking" your notion that FW is an area for consensual PvP or that FW should be a place for somehow "honorable" 1v1s. It should not be. FW is essentially a forever war scenario, and in war everything goes. Overall, it does it quite well, and the fixes outlined by Fozzie are neither here nor there: More large plexes are good, the no cloaking thing is a complete miss. Not addressing stabs in any way is the bigger problem (I support the idea that WCS equipped ships should not be able to use acceleration gates - This also works to up the risk in other areas of EVE - Although with Mobile Depots, I guess people could just refit once inside, but that at least adds hassle to the process).

Finally, the issue with farming isn't that it is possible or profitable: Honestly, there should be decent ISK faucets for the lowsec crowd. It is that it affects the warzone far, far more than actual PvP at times due to the nature of the system and that it can be done with zero skill (pilot or toon) effort and at no actual risk by warp stabbed frigs with 1mil price-tag on an alt client that is alt-tabbed out to LoL.

But I am flying off on a tangent again and this post isn't very well constructed. My apologies for that.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#169 - 2014-05-11 08:15:45 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Angelus Ryan wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Using short scan you have no advantage at all - 1 ship (tackle) enters plex 5 or 6 more sit at a warpin 15 Au off until the person in the plex is tackled..


Are you entirely unable to disengage against a single opponent to escape in the window after his friends appear on scan and before they appear on your grid after warping to the gate and activating it? This takes quite a bit of time.

I suggest you re-think the ships you fly and/or how you fly them.

Flying solo in 1v1 combat is never a guarantee, and knowing how to choose fights you can win and/or keeping an open avenue of escape is a big part of solo flying and one of its challenges.

It seems like you want guaranteed 1v1 arenas full of LP. This is not what FW is.

I am sorry, but perhaps you need to re-think your FW participation and head to some player-organized 1v1 tournaments instead.

You are correct - there are no guarantees in 1 v 1 combat but it is consensual, both parties have agreed to participate in a fight with a reward attached.
What FW is now - a multitude of plex farmers and plex farming alts, combined with a bunch of sad asses complaining because they can't kill them. If this is really what FW is supposed to be about then it is a useless mechanic. Which will continue to be used to farm LP for faction items.

Is your dislike of the idea of consensual Pvp in a plex based on a fear you may not win? No-one says you have to stay and fight, you are penalized if you don't though. I would think the "WCS Plexing is bad" group would welcome such a change.

How would my idea be bad for FW and PVP content in it?
If anything it would create more Pvp content.

I would like to hear your opinion of what FW is - You have stated what you think it isn't

Why do you say i should leave FW, I want to create content for FW, content that is available nowhere else in Eve. That is bad why?

Player organised 1 v 1 tournaments?? Do they still exist, the last few I saw advertised ended up being called off due to lack of participation. Plus, I don't spend 24/7 in eve in the hope someone decides to run a tournament.

As things stand now, I make enough out of plex farming with an alt and engage in Pvp when I want to. I see no reason to change this

PS; If you are unclear on my motives and how this could work to add to FW content, feel free to PM me, I'd be glad to discuss it with you.

You seem to think there is a grand, overarching end-game for FW. There is not. It is an endless pendulum designed to provide a healthy environment for small-gang and solo PvP. Whether the participants in this PvP are factional or neutral is entirely irrelevant. If you want more meaningful sovereignty warfare there is a place for that.

Is fun being had with lots of ships being killed in FW regions? Job done.

Your not seriously suggesting FW plex farming currently provides anything close to healthy Pvp?

May be you are reading something other than what I wrote or just choosing to misunderstand it.

This comment ""You seem to think there is a grand, overarching end-game for FW ."" has me puzzled, where in my post is there even a hint of any type of endgame.. You might try just taking what is written as face value and not try to find a hidden meaning, . , There isn't 1.

This thread and several hundred like it, has been about WCS, Cloaky plex farming. my suggestion is about changing the way people plex. It has absolutely nothing to do with small gang Pvp, unless of course you are a proponent of the "Ewar Only" style Pvp many indulge in whilst in FW space.

It just boggles the mind that people will happily sit and fill 9 pages in less than 2 days with complaints about WCS, Cloaky plex farmers and totally take out of context something that could to a large extent remove the problem.

Zappity - 1.How much plexing do you do 2. How much plex hunting do you do 3. How many of your targets when plex hunting simply warp out before you can engage them.

Finally - How many more fights do you think you would get in plexes if the incentive to just warp off was removed?

As for your "meaningful sov warfare" comment, I can only presume you have never lived in nulsec or been in a sov holding alliance.
Sov Warfare mechanics - what can you say about them except - The biggest joke in TQ, next to pos management.
By all means, try both and come to your own conclusions, I have and have along with many others, come to the conclusion, Sov mechanics are broken.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#170 - 2014-05-11 08:41:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Angelus Ryan wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

You are correct - there are no guarantees in 1 v 1 combat but it is consensual, both parties have agreed to participate in a fight with a reward attached.
What FW is now - a multitude of plex farmers and plex farming alts, combined with a bunch of sad asses complaining because they can't kill them. If this is really what FW is supposed to be about then it is a useless mechanic. Which will continue to be used to farm LP for faction items.

Is your dislike of the idea of consensual Pvp in a plex based on a fear you may not win? No-one says you have to stay and fight, you are penalized if you don't though. I would think the "WCS Plexing is bad" group would welcome such a change.


Overall, I agree with your wish to penalize people who run, as I have posted before in the thread. Timers ticking back up would be a good start for this.

As for your posts, I am merely "attacking" your notion that FW is an area for consensual PvP or that FW should be a place for somehow "honorable" 1v1s. It should not be. FW is essentially a forever war scenario, and in war everything goes. Overall, it does it quite well, and the fixes outlined by Fozzie are neither here nor there: More large plexes are good, the no cloaking thing is a complete miss. Not addressing stabs in any way is the bigger problem (I support the idea that WCS equipped ships should not be able to use acceleration gates - This also works to up the risk in other areas of EVE - Although with Mobile Depots, I guess people could just refit once inside, but that at least adds hassle to the process).

Finally, the issue with farming isn't that it is possible or profitable: Honestly, there should be decent ISK faucets for the lowsec crowd. It is that it affects the warzone far, far more than actual PvP at times due to the nature of the system and that it can be done with zero skill (pilot or toon) effort and at no actual risk by warp stabbed frigs with 1mil price-tag on an alt client that is alt-tabbed out to LoL.

But I am flying off on a tangent again and this post isn't very well constructed. My apologies for that.

I'm not suggesting FW should all be consensual Pvp and exclude anyone, my suggestion is aimed at 1 facet of FW and if implemented correctly would see more pvp activity and a lot less warp stabbed Trial accounts in plexes.

As I said earlier, I warp stab my plex ship specifically because i got sick and tired of being ganked in plexes. No-one can honestly believe 6 vs 1 is anything other than ganking.

Honestly, I am not the best at solo pvp but like it. If there was an arena like environment attached to some of the smaller plexes in FW, that are now simply used for farming LP, I would gladly remove the stabs and refit for pvp.
I wonder how many others would do the same, I've spent many hours in corp chat and spoken to many others about just this.
The general consensus seems to be, I'd fight if I had to but why bother, stabs work fine.
That is easily changed with timer resets BUT you can't just add timer resets without upsetting the balance. The balance could easily be, 1 v 1 plex fights. Stay and fight or lose the time you have taken off the timer. Seems fair to me.

CCP has said WCS are staying for now at least, so why not see if we can't discourage stab farming in a different way.
I don't see why anyone would be against 1 v 1 fights in plexes, unless they don't want to have to fight 1 other ship alone and need friends.

Just to finish - I'm not saying my idea is perfect but it is something others may be able to build on and IMO it is far better than the current situation.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
#171 - 2014-05-11 08:50:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelus Ryan
Sgt Ocker wrote:

I don't see why anyone would be against 1 v 1 fights in plexes, unless they don't want to have to fight 1 other ship alone and need friends.


I spend most of my time flying alone in FW space and I am entirely against such a change, despite me muttering "damn blobs" often enough.

I think that it will lead to more people running since they cannot bring their own backup. People are more likely to engage if they know their friends from next door can come to help and this provides more targets for people who can kill tackle, separate gangs, use deadspace to even the field or use plexes to bait enemy gangs into their own gang. Remove that, and at that point only the hardcore 1v1 crowd (and their links!) will bother to enter these plexes.

That, and farmers.

As unbelievable as it can sound to some people: There is no need to force 1v1s to happen with contrived mechanics. They are out there and can be found.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#172 - 2014-05-11 10:33:44 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Yeah actually just not being able to collect lp if your ship has a cloak/stab is pretty straightforward and simple way to increase risk while not hurting other forms of gameplay.



This, is that simple. Stabs or ckoak equals 0 LP.

Problem solved.


No not problem solved at all.
This addresses nothing about FW.
It removes anyone who wishes to use Plexes to gain income.
No mouse or Farmer will stay to die of a blob leaping through the gate.
no one is stupid enough to commit suicide in a game for your amusement.
It does not solve faction warfare, it kills it.


It's solves the main problems with FW, stab+clock plex farmers kill the experience. If they don't want to fight, they do not belong in FW and should go back to mine in Lonetrek.

CCP should also implement timer rollbacks on FW plexes.

The Tears Must Flow
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#173 - 2014-05-11 10:37:48 UTC
Also lol at the 1v1 "arena" suggestion, this is EvE Online, not street fighter.

The Tears Must Flow
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#174 - 2014-05-11 11:26:56 UTC
Angelus Ryan wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

I don't see why anyone would be against 1 v 1 fights in plexes, unless they don't want to have to fight 1 other ship alone and need friends.


I spend most of my time flying alone in FW space and I am entirely against such a change, despite me muttering "damn blobs" often enough.

I think that it will lead to more people running since they cannot bring their own backup. People are more likely to engage if they know their friends from next door can come to help and this provides more targets for people who can kill tackle, separate gangs, use deadspace to even the field or use plexes to bait enemy gangs into their own gang. Remove that, and at that point only the hardcore 1v1 crowd (and their links!) will bother to enter these plexes.

That, and farmers.

As unbelievable as it can sound to some people: There is no need to force 1v1s to happen with contrived mechanics. They are out there and can be found.

And that exact scenario is why most plex farmers use stabbed ships.
Most of the dedicated farmers I have met don't have backup so when someone enters Dscan range they leave, only to return once the threat is gone, to again sit on the button with no consequences.

I suppose it really comes down to, people who complain about wcs in plexes are only doing so because it simply doesn't suit them. They don't want anything more than to ban wcs from plexes and force others to play to their style. I want to kill something every time I enter a plex, remove WCS.

As for forcing solo pvp with contrived mechanics - Every mechanic is contrived, that is how mechanics come about. The mechanic that allows someone to call 20 friends in to help him in a novice plex because he is losing a 1 v 1 fight was once also contrived - but it now seems to be acceptable.

The run of the mill attitude in this and other threads like it seems to be, Change is good but only if it changes someone else's play style to make mine easier.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#175 - 2014-05-11 11:50:10 UTC
Zappity wrote:


I could in principle support a 'Junior' plex which was locked to two people only. But I suspect it would be too easy to game with an alt to lock people of out your plex.

Easily enough to fix - 2 ships in a Junior -/ Novice plex = timer stops
The timer only counts down when there is 1 ship in the plex.

Limit ship type to T1 frigate and why not, for a more level playing field - block external assist ( no boosts in this type of plex)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2014-05-11 11:53:44 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Zappity wrote:


I could in principle support a 'Junior' plex which was locked to two people only. But I suspect it would be too easy to game with an alt to lock people of out your plex.

Easily enough to fix - 2 ships in a Junior -/ Novice plex = timer stops
The timer only counts down when there is 1 ship in the plex.

Limit ship type to T1 frigate and why not, for a more level playing field - block external assist ( no boosts in this type of plex)



All of which is very "non EvE"

You do know that EvE stands for Everyone vs Everyone, right? So instancing is not going to happen. The world is supposed to be open and non forgiving. It is by design.
Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
#177 - 2014-05-11 12:22:35 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

And that exact scenario is why most plex farmers use stabbed ships.


The exact scenario which leads to most plex farmers using stabbed ships is far more trivial: Because they can use stabbed ships and still make LP. It has nothing to do with blobs, since they are not there to fight in any case! In a perfect 1v1 world, the 3 day farming alt would still be stabbed, because it has about a snowball's chance in hell in case an actual engagement happens and because the person controlling it is not there to fight.

The system sort of rewards not fighting (warp off/cloak up, bore your "attacker" to death, proceed to capture the plex as if nothing happened) because there is no actual penalty to not fighting (unless you run across a persistent hunter who denies you the ability to plex across several systems without getting bored as hell), so people will not fight unless they are looking for fights in the first place.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#178 - 2014-05-11 13:54:16 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


No not problem solved at all.
This addresses nothing about FW.
It removes anyone who wishes to use Plexes to gain income.
No mouse or Farmer will stay to die of a blob leaping through the gate.
no one is stupid enough to commit suicide in a game for your amusement.
It does not solve faction warfare, it kills it.

I don't think you get it. It doesn't remove anyone who wishes to use Plexes to gain income. It removes anyone WHO USES STABS OR CLOAKS from gaining income.

1. There will be "Occupancy War Only" guys who fit stabs. They don't care about income. They care about winning the war (I think there are 2 of these guys in game atm).
2. Guys like me who use Plexes to gain income won't be removed. Why? Because I am also looking for fights.

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#179 - 2014-05-11 13:56:12 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Easily enough to fix - 2 ships in a Junior -/ Novice plex = timer stops
The timer only counts down when there is 1 ship in the plex.

Limit ship type to T1 frigate and why not, for a more level playing field - block external assist ( no boosts in this type of plex)

I heard they have an "accept dual" button somewhere for that sort of fight.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2014-05-11 17:15:33 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Cloaking prevention within capture range
To help ensure balance around cloak use in FW complexes, we are disallowing cloaking within 30km of the capture point. This is achieved through an inert beacon with a 30km radius, so that when you are within capture range of the point you are also always 0km from an object.



This should be made into a deployable. It would make a good strategic counter to cloaky scouts in all parts of eve.

+1 on the efforts to fix fw. I tried it once and it bored me to tears.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".