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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Procurer or Retriever?
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Ice Enav
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-05-10 18:25:57 UTC
I'm not sure which one to pic. The Retriever has a 22,000 m3 bay vs. 12,000 m3 for the Procurer so it can haul more... both have the same drone capacity and bandwidth. However, the Procurer has a 200% bonus to Strip Miner yield while the Retriever only has 50% bonus and a 5% bonus to ore capacity.

I guess this means the Procurer is faster at mining (3x faster, correct?) while the Retriever is only 0.5x faster than default. The Procurer can be tougher (5% shield hit point bonus) but the Retriever gets more cargo space (5% ore capacity) for each level of Mining Barge. That means the Retriever can hold 1,100 m3 more per Mining Barge level.

Which one is the best to get? Currently only mining in high sec space, character is only a few days old with about 400,000 skillpoints in various skills.

Thanks!
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-05-10 18:38:29 UTC
Ice Enav wrote:
I guess this means the Procurer is faster at mining (3x faster, correct?)
No.

Look at the number of high slots.
The Procurer can fit only one strip miner. 1x3 = 3 effective strip miners.
The Retriever can fit two strip miners. 2x1.5 = 3 effective strip miners.

Their yield is almost identical. (Except that the Retriever has one more low slot for one more Mining Upgrade.)

The Procurer has a much better tank, the Retriever a bigger ore hold.

If you have to ask the question, I'd suggest a Procurer, as it's unlikely to be ganked. You will lose Retrievers to suicide gankers, unless you learn to spot the signs and pay attention. So start with a Procurer and once you feel comfortable that you can spot a gank, you may switch to the Retriever for the bigger hold. Or stay with the Procurer if you like safety.
Flharfh Lhar
Sasquatch Control Bureau
#3 - 2014-05-10 20:04:33 UTC
If you stick to out of the way high sec systems that are .7 security or above, you can get away with using a retriever. The retriever's increased ore hold (also more low slots, allowing you to fit mining upgrades) means you will make significantly more isk, offsetting the increased risk that comes with the fragile retriever. If you are mining in .5 or .6 systems in well traveled areas of hisec (like Caldari hi-sec systems within about 10 jumps of Jita) that gankers like to frequent, use the procurer.

How to avoid gankers:

Keep an eye on local chat and dock if you see a flashy red character - that means they've either attacked another player or they are an outlaw with low security status.
Keep an eye on any suspicious looking ships that might be scanner alts of gankers, scanning you to see how tough your ship is.
Use tank modules - that's going to be shield rigs, mods, and a damage control.
Gankers commonly use the catalyst destroyer, which is limited to thermal and kinetic damage. That means you should tank your ship against those two types of damage.
Remember that gankers will always be able to kill you if they want to badly enough. Your goal is to make your ship as tough as possible, so solo gankers will be unable to kill your ship before CONCORD kills them and will move on to easier prey.
Titan Andronicus
Rookie Mission Tax Haven
#4 - 2014-05-10 22:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Titan Andronicus
Ice Enav wrote:
I'm not sure which one to pic. The Retriever has a 22,000 m3 bay vs. 12,000 m3 for the Procurer so it can haul more...


Actually it's even better than the paper stats suggests: because the Retriever's ore hold increases with each level of Mining Barge. At level 0 it is 22,000m3. but because you need Mining Barge at level 1 to fly it you will start out having an ore hold of 23,100m3. Then 24,200 at level 2, etc.

Really it depends on where you will be mining. The Procurer has much better protection to start with when you have low skills and do not benefit much from skill bonuses from Shield Management (shield capacity), Hull Upgrades (Armour), and Mechanics (Structure).

30-day skill queue for a 30-day subscription! Many thanks
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#5 - 2014-05-10 23:15:27 UTC
considering summer changes go procurer > skiff.
Ice Enav
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-05-10 23:27:15 UTC
Thanks for the advice guys! It'll be at least 4 days before I can skill up for this so that'll give me time to digest the info.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#7 - 2014-05-11 01:43:00 UTC
There are two basic theories - one treats ship loss as a cost of doing business when mining these folk maximize their yield and don't really care about tank. What they have going for them is that ganks, while they do happen are generally relatively rare considering the overall population of miners and the amount of mining done and can be made almost a non-event by doing your mining in out of the way places.

The other folk tank their ships - this cuts into your yield ofc, but it means that you will lose less ships b/c gankers tend to go for soft targets.

Also keep in mind that if you are solo and use a procurer that means you will be making more trips to deposit your ore unless you got an alt hauler or can mine. Therefore a reteriver lends itself more to semi-afk mining and I believe has a higher effective yield because your actually spending more time mining instead of hauling - but again reterivers are soft, so if you in a popular system - such as any of the ice systems - you may lose them.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#8 - 2014-05-11 01:53:12 UTC
Use the Procurer until you learn how to spot a gank before it happens.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#9 - 2014-05-11 08:30:42 UTC
Procurers are definitely the ship people fly when they don't want to explode suddenly.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Netan MalDoran
Hail To The King
The Silent Syndicate
#10 - 2014-05-12 03:44:46 UTC
Again, the Procurer is the best way to go, I've tanked my so heavily that I've run small anoms in them with my drones for the lols.

Even now I still use a Procurer for my minerals, unless I go the indy route and I'm playing with penny profits, then I'm sticking with the high tank (Especially against AFK mining with null rats).

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth
Asia Leigh
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-05-12 06:07:10 UTC
As was already stated go with the procurer. At least until you are confident enough to spot and avoid suicide ganks.

Rules of mining if you wish to stay alive:

1. Never mine AFK. In fact never go AFK while you are undocked in any ship unless you are under the protection of a POS shield.

2. Always tank your mining ship properly. This includes Damage Control II, and a decent shield tank. You may lose some yield, but if you are tanked, they will either pass you by, and if they do attempt the gank you stand a better chance of surviving it.

3. You ideally want to mine aligned to a celestial. If someone warps in on you and you are already aligned you will enter warp immediately.

4. Mark known gankers as red in your contacts, so they will show up in local as they enter system.

5. Mine in groups. If you like to mine you should join an industrial corp of some kind. Everything is more fun in groups and there is always safety in numbers. Something you missed, someone else might have caught and can alert you to the danager.
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#12 - 2014-05-12 07:45:54 UTC
My Procurer fit looks like this. Mining is not my main job, so I am low in mining relate skills. Thats why T1 laser and updgrades. Modulated strip miner II is better, than Strip miner I only if you can use mining crytals and they are skill demanding. If you can not use T2 shield modules - use Meta versions. This fit has over 1000 m3 yield per minute. Max yield with Procurer with all 5 skills and best gear including crystals is over 1400 m3 per minute. But even with this fit I have to switch asteroids every 6 minutes...

[Procurer, my procurer]
Mining Laser Upgrade I
Mining Laser Upgrade I

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Survey Scanner II

Strip Miner I

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Mining Drone I x4
Hobgoblin III

After next patch Procurer will get enough drone bay for 1 full miner fleet and 1 full combat drones fleet. With my skills it hase 50 k EHP. With all 5 skills it would have about 52 kEHP. Usual catalyst ganker fit can make about 600 DPS. So gankers will need about 87 seconds to take this down. With CONCORD reaction time of 15 seconds they will need 4 ganker catalysts to take this down before CONCORD kill them. And that is about 24 milions lost for gankers. With my fit they will hardly make even 1/1 lost ratio, IMHO.


Max yield fit Procurer (1431 m3 par minute) can have 2 mining drone rigs:
[Procurer, Procurer high yield in high sec]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Medium Shield Extender II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Drone Mining Augmentor II
Medium Drone Mining Augmentor I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

Mining Drone II x4
Federation Navy Hobgoblin

Max yield fit Retriever has to fit CPU rigs to keep all 3 miner upgrades, so his yield is almost the same (1459 m3 per minute):

[Retriever, high yield]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Drone Mining Augmentor I

Mining Drone II x4
Hobgoblin, that will not save you

So for 18 m3 per minute you will pay losing of 75 % of you defense (45204 EHP vs 11313 EHP) and you will be tempted much more to mine AFK. Thats why I use the procurer.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-05-12 13:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jur Tissant
If you are mining in high-sec, go with the Retriever. The Procurer is mainly for tanking against low-sec rats and maybe players in frigates. Because the Retriever has 3 low slots instead of 2, it can fit an extra MLU so it has a higher yield than the Procurer, but the large ore hold is usually why people swing for it.

I wouldn't be scared of suicide ganks in high-sec. I have been mining for a few months and never got ganked in high. It's a matter of choosing your system well, to be low-population and away from those New Order nutjobs. However, if you mine in high population systems or happen to see a few ganks while you mine, the Procurer might be a good idea. Still, I would never put anything other than an MLU in a low slot.