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[Summer 2014] Starbase tweaks

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larf1986
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#261 - 2014-05-08 09:38:07 UTC
Is there anything in the pipeline to add a personal SMA much like the Personal Hanger?
Ian Stanley
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#262 - 2014-05-08 09:41:31 UTC
Sir Werner wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Looks good.

Like I said at the panel, change the requirements of pos gunnery to only be anchoring 4. Quick little change.

Poses are going to proliferate quite a bit, and hopefully more people will be fighting at them. And people with less means to defend them will have need to use them where before they didn't. They are going to be less of a specialized thing and more of a necessity fo industrialists. The barrier for pos gunnery could take a look at. Its a really miserable train.


But it's so much work to change one number and I am so le tired! Cry

Fine, done. Starbase Defense Management only requires Anchoring 4 instead of 5 now.

Can we get the skills point back for Anchoring 5?


why would you want a refund? with anchoring 5 you can still anchor t2 large bubble and build an outpost (not sure what the actual requirement to anchor the said outpost)

with them at 5 now (pre Kronos) you open up 3 things - starbase def management, abilities to anchor t2 large bubble and the abilitiy to manufacture oupost (you still need indy 5)
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#263 - 2014-05-08 10:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Nullarbor
Steve Ronuken wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Sigras wrote:
I have two questions regarding how the 2% ME discount is calculated.

1. it is 2% and not 2 ME levels right? Just confirming because if not you've just condemned all invention to only ever be done in 0.0 amarr factory stations...

2. is the 2% calculated per job or per run?

I realize that in most cases #2 makes absolutely no difference, but think about manufacturing Small CCCs or even medium CCCs... a 2% discount per run is not going to help either of those products at all, but a 2% discount per job certainly could

TL;DR
is the 2% discount calculated ROUNDUP(RequiredMaterial * 0.98) * NumberOfJobs or is it calculated ROUNDUP(RequiredMaterial * NumberOfJobs * 0.98)?


The bonus is a 2% material discount, not ME level since that's going away in the new system.

The material reduction is applied per run last I checked, but we have plans to apply it to the whole job, so that blueprints with small amount of components also benefit from it. Not sure if we can squeeze this for summer though, going to ask around - thanks for the reminder.



Oh god, can't believe I missed this.

Material discounts at job rather than run level would be a major, major change.

(I like it. But it would require a rework of a whole bunch of tools to take run numbers into account as well. And I'm not /sure/ about how it affects bpc vs bpo. I'm generally in favor.)


Confirming the new Industry will not do any material rounding until AFTER we multiply by the number of runs, meaning material efficiency discounts due to facility / teams / skills / blueprints / whatever may produce slightly better results with multiple runs.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Oxide Ammar
#264 - 2014-05-08 10:31:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxide Ammar
[Idea] Make assembly arrays, moon harvesting able to be overloaded (overheated) but rather than damaging the array it will consume more fuel on benefit of manufacturing or harvesting faster. Cool

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Marcus Iunius Brutus
Hoborg Labs
#265 - 2014-05-08 10:39:02 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Confirming the new Industry will not do any material rounding until AFTER we multiply by the number of runs, meaning material efficiency discounts due to facility / teams / skills / blueprints / whatever may produce slightly better results with multiple runs.


Great! Time to research those rig BPOs to ME10 :-)
Rust Connor
Industrias PapaCapim
#266 - 2014-05-08 11:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Rust Connor
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Confirming the new Industry will not do any material rounding until AFTER we multiply by the number of runs, meaning material efficiency discounts due to facility / teams / skills / blueprints / whatever may produce slightly better results with multiple runs.


OMG, WAIT!
The formula is: Round(materials*runs*discounts)?


1) Simple example 1: Muninn
- 2% ME array + BPO 0ME
- 50 runs batch
I'll need 49 Ruptures (+everything else), right?


2) Simple example 2: Muninn
- 2% ME array + BPO 10ME (10%)
- 50 runs batch
I'll need 44 Ruptures (+everything else), right?
Or is 45 Ruptures? Is 50*0.88 or 50*0.9*0.98?

3) Simple example 3: Muninn
- 2% ME array + BPO 10ME
- 50 times 1 run batch
I'll need 50 Ruptures (+everything else), right?


Good lord. I need an extra month to prepare myself....
It Maybeatrap
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2014-05-08 13:04:26 UTC
Ian Stanley wrote:
with them at 5 now (pre Kronos) you open up 3 things - starbase def management,
No, that's open at 4

Ian Stanley wrote:
abilities to anchor t2 large bubble and the abilitiy to manufacture oupost (you still need indy 5)
Let's be honest how relevant anchoring specifically a t2 large bubble is to most pos sitters?
How many of them are gonna build an outpost?

IMO anchoring is missing some per-level bonus, say even 5% reduction in anchor/online time would make up for some of the irk of having 630k skillpoints going from a mandatory sp bump and of some value for character sale to being 100% useless.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#268 - 2014-05-08 13:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Sigras wrote:
I have two questions regarding how the 2% ME discount is calculated.

1. it is 2% and not 2 ME levels right? Just confirming because if not you've just condemned all invention to only ever be done in 0.0 amarr factory stations...

2. is the 2% calculated per job or per run?

I realize that in most cases #2 makes absolutely no difference, but think about manufacturing Small CCCs or even medium CCCs... a 2% discount per run is not going to help either of those products at all, but a 2% discount per job certainly could

TL;DR
is the 2% discount calculated ROUNDUP(RequiredMaterial * 0.98) * NumberOfJobs or is it calculated ROUNDUP(RequiredMaterial * NumberOfJobs * 0.98)?


The bonus is a 2% material discount, not ME level since that's going away in the new system.

The material reduction is applied per run last I checked, but we have plans to apply it to the whole job, so that blueprints with small amount of components also benefit from it. Not sure if we can squeeze this for summer though, going to ask around - thanks for the reminder.



Oh god, can't believe I missed this.

Material discounts at job rather than run level would be a major, major change.

(I like it. But it would require a rework of a whole bunch of tools to take run numbers into account as well. And I'm not /sure/ about how it affects bpc vs bpo. I'm generally in favor.)


Confirming the new Industry will not do any material rounding until AFTER we multiply by the number of runs, meaning material efficiency discounts due to facility / teams / skills / blueprints / whatever may produce slightly better results with multiple runs.



Well, that's a really significant change. Smile I like.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#269 - 2014-05-08 13:20:09 UTC
Rust Connor wrote:
[
I'll need 49 Ruptures (+everything else), right?

i believe they've said that the t1 item for t2 can never go below (or above) 1:1, unlike every other component

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Marcus Iunius Brutus
Hoborg Labs
#270 - 2014-05-08 13:24:16 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
i believe they've said that the t1 item for t2 can never go below (or above) 1:1, unlike every other component


So it's an extra material behaviour after extra materials are removed.
Banko Mato
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#271 - 2014-05-08 13:31:03 UTC
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
i believe they've said that the t1 item for t2 can never go below (or above) 1:1, unlike every other component


So it's an extra material behaviour after extra materials are removed.


Exactly. All materials are equal now, but some are still more equal than others...
Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#272 - 2014-05-08 13:37:11 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

Component Assembly Array: from 1,000,000 m3 to 1,500,000 m3.


I know it has been mentioned but try 10 million? Will still need a handful to deliver super capitals.

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#273 - 2014-05-08 13:48:29 UTC  |  Edited by: MailDeadDrop
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Confirming the new Industry will not do any material rounding until AFTER we multiply by the number of runs, meaning material efficiency discounts due to facility / teams / skills / blueprints / whatever may produce slightly better results with multiple runs.


You do realize that is yet another buff to T2 BPOs, right? Because T2 BPCs don't have enough runs to make a difference with a 1-5% reduction in materials.

Dear CCP, Do you have a freaking clue about what you're doing?

MDD
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#274 - 2014-05-08 14:24:45 UTC
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Confirming the new Industry will not do any material rounding until AFTER we multiply by the number of runs, meaning material efficiency discounts due to facility / teams / skills / blueprints / whatever may produce slightly better results with multiple runs.


Great! Time to research those rig BPOs to ME10 :-)



Wait - does it mean what i think this means?

I have bpo that need 10 pieces of tritanium
I get it to me5% so single run still needs 10*trit
Will 2 run job require 20 or 19 units if trit?
Roundup(10*.95)*2=20
Or
Roundup(10*2*.95)=19

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Marcus Iunius Brutus
Hoborg Labs
#275 - 2014-05-08 14:30:45 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
[quote=Marcus Iunius Brutus]Wait - does it mean what i think this means?

I have bpo that need 10 pieces of tritanium
I get it to me5% so single run still needs 10*trit
Will 2 run job require 20 or 19 units if trit?
Roundup(10*.95)*2=20
Or
Roundup(10*2*.95)=19


Yes, 2 jobs will require 19 pieces of trit.

And BTW it's Round not Roundup.
Rust Connor
Industrias PapaCapim
#276 - 2014-05-08 14:39:03 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Confirming the new Industry will not do any material rounding until AFTER we multiply by the number of runs, meaning material efficiency discounts due to facility / teams / skills / blueprints / whatever may produce slightly better results with multiple runs.


Great! Time to research those rig BPOs to ME10 :-)



Wait - does it mean what i think this means?

I have bpo that need 10 pieces of tritanium
I get it to me5% so single run still needs 10*trit
Will 2 run job require 20 or 19 units if trit?
Roundup(10*.95)*2=20
Or
Roundup(10*2*.95)=19


That is the question: If I have a BPO ME10, do I get a "free" item every 10 itens I build?!

Formula is:
a) Round(Runs*Material*0.9) = 1 free item every 10 runs
b) Runs*Round(Material*0.9) = its what we got today...

Maybe he didn't want to include the blueprint on the list?
Anyway, even the 5% of team means we would have a free item every 20...
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#277 - 2014-05-08 14:42:41 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Confirming the new Industry will not do any material rounding until AFTER we multiply by the number of runs, meaning material efficiency discounts due to facility / teams / skills / blueprints / whatever may produce slightly better results with multiple runs.


Just to show this is a T2 BPO buff:

A standard invented Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (EANM2) required per run:
2 Megacyte
381 Mexallon
5 Morphite
665 Pyerite
1190 Tritanium
2 Zydrine

Takes 3:20 (h:mm) to build one unit (using blueprint-reported time), and there are 10 runs on the BPC. A 4% reduction in material doesn't reduce Megacyte or Zydrine at all. A T2 BPO, by virtue of having nearly limitless runs (limited to 30d runs) doesn't suffer this round off.

MDD
Korthan Doshu
Doomheim
#278 - 2014-05-08 14:54:29 UTC
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
[quote=Marcus Iunius Brutus]Wait - does it mean what i think this means?

I have bpo that need 10 pieces of tritanium
I get it to me5% so single run still needs 10*trit
Will 2 run job require 20 or 19 units if trit?
Roundup(10*.95)*2=20
Or
Roundup(10*2*.95)=19


Yes, 2 jobs will require 19 pieces of trit.

And BTW it's Round not Roundup.


How do we know it's round() and not roundup()? I didn't catch a definitive statement...
Marcus Iunius Brutus
Hoborg Labs
#279 - 2014-05-08 15:25:24 UTC
Korthan Doshu wrote:
How do we know it's round() and not roundup()? I didn't catch a definitive statement...


Currently it's always round() in all material related calculations.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#280 - 2014-05-08 15:34:22 UTC
Korthan Doshu wrote:
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
[quote=Marcus Iunius Brutus]Wait - does it mean what i think this means?

I have bpo that need 10 pieces of tritanium
I get it to me5% so single run still needs 10*trit
Will 2 run job require 20 or 19 units if trit?
Roundup(10*.95)*2=20
Or
Roundup(10*2*.95)=19


Yes, 2 jobs will require 19 pieces of trit.

And BTW it's Round not Roundup.


How do we know it's round() and not roundup()? I didn't catch a definitive statement...



Since they are toying still with formula its best to wait untill final numbers will be release after all feedback is processed. Whatever it will be round or floor or ceil the premise is the same - get all bpo to me10 equivalent asap

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?