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[Future Release] Removing Wh systems from the map/kills EVE API

First post First post
Author
Bohneik Itohn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#461 - 2014-05-07 17:47:08 UTC
Def Monk wrote:

I'm aware everyone knows the problems with POSs. It was more an attempt to get conversation rolling for alternatives and solutions in the meantime - this functionality currently acts as one and with it going away, brainstorming ideas seemed like a good idea. I wasn't looking for a medal. I was looking for input.

I'm quite aware capital PvP is not the only way to enjoy eve. In fact, I have nothing to do with it. My primary wspace experience is with about 5-10 other pilots in a C4, hunting people in our static C2. Unlike the larger groups using this to find capitals, we use it to avoid larger groups we can't deal with.

We do run people out of WHs. It's one of my favorite things to do - watch and learn their habits for a week or two before coming in to reinforce everything while they're logged off, and we enjoy the fights that ensue until we can loot the pinata.

We can't run anything higher than C4 sites. We're not large enough. As I said, I'm for this change. Carebears have a right to their playstyle, and people who dabble in different areas are fine as well. You say carebears annoy you? Well, tactless pricks who choose to pointlessly attack other's choices in how to enjoy themselves annoy me, and most other people who play eve. Go make assumptions elsewhere.



That was a mistake in how I formatted the post. Only the first couple lines were directed at you, the rest at the tear-jerkers. I already knew your stance. Sorry for the confusion.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

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Def Monk
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#462 - 2014-05-07 17:48:58 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Def Monk wrote:

I'm aware everyone knows the problems with POSs. It was more an attempt to get conversation rolling for alternatives and solutions in the meantime - this functionality currently acts as one and with it going away, brainstorming ideas seemed like a good idea. I wasn't looking for a medal. I was looking for input.

I'm quite aware capital PvP is not the only way to enjoy eve. In fact, I have nothing to do with it. My primary wspace experience is with about 5-10 other pilots in a C4, hunting people in our static C2. Unlike the larger groups using this to find capitals, we use it to avoid larger groups we can't deal with.

We do run people out of WHs. It's one of my favorite things to do - watch and learn their habits for a week or two before coming in to reinforce everything while they're logged off, and we enjoy the fights that ensue until we can loot the pinata.

We can't run anything higher than C4 sites. We're not large enough. As I said, I'm for this change. Carebears have a right to their playstyle, and people who dabble in different areas are fine as well. You say carebears annoy you? Well, tactless pricks who choose to pointlessly attack other's choices in how to enjoy themselves annoy me, and most other people who play eve. Go make assumptions elsewhere.



That was a mistake in how I formatted the post. Only the first couple lines were directed at you, the rest at the tear-jerkers. I already knew your stance. Sorry for the confusion.

Ah. No problem then. Oops! o7 Well then, ignore all but my first paragraph as well. Heh.
Qusal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#463 - 2014-05-07 18:03:48 UTC
If this nerf goes through you should make wormhole capital PvE farming a little harder also, maybe double the escalation waves that would be nice 12 sleepers on 1st capital and 18 on 2nd capital. This will prevent from running sites in 5-10 minutes and would make them last atleast 20-25 and ofcourse make all sleepers scramble. This way once PvEérs are found the PVPers have a chance to actually kill them.
Kangaax
Money in da bank
#464 - 2014-05-07 18:12:15 UTC
Qusal wrote:
If this nerf goes through you should make wormhole capital PvE farming a little harder also, maybe double the escalation waves that would be nice 12 sleepers on 1st capital and 18 on 2nd capital. This will prevent from running sites in 5-10 minutes and would make them last atleast 20-25 and ofcourse make all sleepers scramble. This way once PvEérs are found the PVPers have a chance to actually kill them.

That's a very good idea, but in this case they should also reduce the amount of blue loot generated by the guardians to make it even (double ships -> divide their loot by two).

PS: I completely agree with the change, sleepers don't use zkillboard.
Bohneik Itohn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#465 - 2014-05-07 18:13:36 UTC
John Caldr wrote:
Bohneik Itohn wrote:

Seems legit... If they want that ISK, they can fight for it. If you want conflict in WH space, you can encourage it instead of just blatantly forcing it in situations where you yourself are taking very little risk.


I understand you have some dreams, but in reality carebears spotting WH PVP tickers just log off. Even if you'll attack the pos, you'll get nothing. Ships that cant be saved will be self-destructed, fit stripped. They dont care about anomalies - there always will be few next day. And we ourselves have plenty of places to farm with better efficiency and better comfort.


Dreams... Right...

There are 113 C6 WH's. Someone mentioned rolling holes 50-70 (really?) times a day looking for targets. RNG not withstanding that gives a decent chance of finding the same WH's every "few days". So if you and your corpmates are the only thing saving Eve from financial ruin it shouldn't be hard to make it a war of attrition in which the horrible carebears hardly ever get a chance to farm. Start taking notes about who the worst offenders are, and every time you roll into them clean them out, they'll find somewhere else to make their isk.

I like how you get to farm with efficiency and comfort, but the carebears are absolutely forbidden to do so because they won't fight a losing battle when you show up with a superior force. Big smile

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Citrute
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
#466 - 2014-05-07 18:23:04 UTC
I find it humorous how some k-space entities who's very existence is founded and maintained with superior metadata that is simply not available 'in game' in a form that can be leveraged in the same meaningful ways (including data derived from thousands of player API's) , are pitchforking for the removal of a small piece of API data that has very little relevance to them other than, 'i don't agree with your playstyle', 'foxfour said so' and, allegedly, 'muh farming'
Im not even mad, GARPA, Goon metrics, opsec data tool #324. All those tools coalitions use are amazing, and extremely powerful. I wouldn't dare suggest we remove their ability to passively collect and compile massive amounts of metadata. Roll



Login traps are not always ganks. Unlike most forms of pve, c5/c6 farming fleets are extremely capable of defending themselves. The last login trap i was involved in, where SSC were successfully able to put up a good fight and defend themselves because of their diligence with watch lists, immediately refitting, as well as having a small contingency of pilots/ships to defend themselves with... And maybe little because I was flying a revelation at the time, but I digress.

Other times, attempted/'failed' login traps turn into meaningful content, see: Lord's Servant's I tripped, fell, and accidentally burned a WH to the Ground


Poop socking with a hundred scout alts is not viable, Making wh space even safer is dumb.
Surely there is a compromise to be found somewhere that can create meaningful gameplay/content.
Def Monk
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#467 - 2014-05-07 18:34:28 UTC
Citrute wrote:
I find it humorous how some k-space entities who's very existence is founded and maintained with superior metadata that is simply not available 'in game' in a form that can be leveraged in the same meaningful ways (including data derived from thousands of player API's) , are pitchforking for the removal of a small piece of API data that has very little relevance to them other than, 'i don't agree with your playstyle', 'foxfour said so' and, allegedly, 'muh farming'
Im not even mad, GARPA, Goon metrics, opsec data tool #324. All those tools coalitions use are amazing, and extremely powerful. I wouldn't dare suggest we remove their ability to passively collect and compile massive amounts of metadata. Roll



Login traps are not always ganks. Unlike most forms of pve, c5/c6 farming fleets are extremely capable of defending themselves. The last login trap i was involved in, where SSC were successfully able to put up a good fight and defend themselves because of their diligence with watch lists, immediately refitting, as well as having a small contingency of pilots/ships to defend themselves with... And maybe little because I was flying a revelation at the time, but I digress.

Other times, attempted/'failed' login traps turn into meaningful content, see: Lord's Servant's I tripped, fell, and accidentally burned a WH to the Ground


Poop socking with a hundred scout alts is not viable, Making wh space even safer is dumb.
Surely there is a compromise to be found somewhere that can create meaningful gameplay/content.

There is. I was quite fond of DaOpa's idea to use their new player structure system to make an item that gathers data like this while it's anchored in a system. I chimed in that it should be combat probe findable, but not d-scanable.
Bohneik Itohn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#468 - 2014-05-07 18:43:41 UTC
Def Monk wrote:

There is. I was quite fond of DaOpa's idea to use their new player structure system to make an item that gathers data like this while it's anchored in a system. I chimed in that it should be combat probe findable, but not d-scanable.


I like this idea, and would agree to a whole slew of espionage deployables that encourage the use of combat probes. I only get to dust mine off about twice a week.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Citrute
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
#469 - 2014-05-07 18:53:57 UTC
Def Monk wrote:
There is. I was quite fond of DaOpa's idea to use their new player structure system to make an item that gathers data like this while it's anchored in a system. I chimed in that it should be combat probe findable, but not d-scanable.


That idea isn't without merit, but it sounds like to leverage such a tool would require leaving a scout logged off in system, (again, the hundred scan alts issue) or, encourage coalition-like metadata sharing between wh entities. I'd hate to see 'overlords' turn into the next blue doughnut... box of blue doughnut holes? Whatever you want to call it.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#470 - 2014-05-07 18:55:21 UTC
John Caldr wrote:
lots of txt.


Wow, that wiki link to the battle, nice ;) Lol

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

John Caldr
Inner Hell
#471 - 2014-05-07 19:10:39 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:

wall of words from someone who never pvp in WH


note - you should deside for yourself - in your dreams carebears fight, hide, or run Big smile

seems you did not read the thread. lets briefly repeat few things:

1) There are 113 C6. At the each moment of our active time 2-3 are active. 50-70 statics - takes whole active day. You can only have 1 static open. Chain is 1-3-5 WHs long, sometimes it takes longer to scan than to rollm so mostly 1-3 . Do the math about chances to find active targets and getting them before they hide or run away having insta-popping signatures. Or you can look twitch for aztecs rolling some time - keeping in mind there are about 3 times more active targets during their prime.

2) There are 512 C5. At each moment about 5 are active. You can do the math here too. And dont forget that you can get same statics twice or more in a row.

3) Our "Incoming force" is always less then defending one - we can seed only 3 capitals since there are WH mass limits. Defenders can have any number of reinforcements. We - dont.

Also, pls do the math for chance to get people who smart enough to farm in "dead" hours. Little tip - its a zero, thats explains why we have unique carebears on our kb never killed before by anyone.

We farm only necessary amount of isks to create PVP content - we dont have interests in carebearing. That is why we using isks to get fights and spend hours looking for targets instead Cool And thats - what distinct carebears from PVPers.

Yes, predators like us do saving EVE from this

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/J132106/stats/2014-04-10:2014-05-06

Check here
https://zkillboard.com/system/31002466/

for number of kills from npc alts, nullsec bears or entities who support the change. oh ... wait.
thetwilitehour
Caldari Provisions
#472 - 2014-05-07 19:12:38 UTC
How about a deployable that when you connect to a wormhole it samples the whatever and tells you some information about pods/ships/npcs/mining/gas mining/ whatever when you connect to another wormhole?

One the one hand I don't think the information should be available via API, but I do think it would be good to have some method for sampling a wormholes actiivty via in game means.
Def Monk
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#473 - 2014-05-07 19:12:59 UTC
Citrute wrote:
Def Monk wrote:
There is. I was quite fond of DaOpa's idea to use their new player structure system to make an item that gathers data like this while it's anchored in a system. I chimed in that it should be combat probe findable, but not d-scanable.


That idea isn't without merit, but it sounds like to leverage such a tool would require leaving a scout logged off in system, (again, the hundred scan alts issue) or, encourage coalition-like metadata sharing between wh entities. I'd hate to see 'overlords' turn into the next blue doughnut... box of blue doughnut holes? Whatever you want to call it.

Ha. While it is true that larger groups would probably coalesce that information pretty effectively, it at least gets the placement and work being done back in the game. As well, you wouldn't necessarily need to keep an alt in there, you could place it and bookmark it. Whenever you enter a system, check your BM folder for them to see if you're supposed to have one in a given system. Check it and get info, or come to the realization it's been destroyed.

It could also run on an extended version of the mechanic used for GSC's - if not checked within the last 90 days, despawn. That should be long enough (especially if these groups are cycling 70+ holes a day, like was said earlier).

Also, make it so anyone can access it. If someone who isn't the locals finds it, they can choose to destroy it, make use of it, or plan to make a trap on it. Same as the locals can destroy it or just plan to retaliate and bait them. Breeds another type of content.
Bohneik Itohn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#474 - 2014-05-07 19:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Bohneik Itohn
John Caldr wrote:
Bohneik Itohn wrote:

wall of words from someone who never pvp in WH


note - you should deside for yourself - in your dreams carebears fight, hide, or run Big smile

seems you did not read the thread. lets briefly repeat few things:

1) There are 113 C6. At the each moment of our active time 2-3 are active. 50-70 statics - takes whole active day. You can only have 1 static open. Chain is 1-3-5 WHs long, sometimes it takes longer to scan than to rollm so mostly 1-3 . Do the math about chances to find active targets and getting them before they hide or run away having insta-popping signatures. Or you can look twitch for aztecs rolling some time - keeping in mind there are about 3 times more active targets during their prime.

2) There are 512 C5. At each moment about 5 are active. You can do the math here too. And dont forget that you can get same statics twice or more in a row.

3) Our "Incoming force" is always less then defending one - we can seed only 3 capitals since there are WH mass limits. Defenders can have any number of reinforcements. We - dont.

Also, pls do the math for chance to get people who smart enough to farm in "dead" hours. Little tip - its a zero, thats explains why we have unique carebears on our kb never killed before by anyone.

We farm only necessary amount of isks to create PVP content - we dont have interests in carebearing. That is why we using isks to get fights and spend hours looking for targets instead Cool And thats - what distinct carebears from PVPers.

Yes, predators like us do saving EVE from this

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/J132106/stats/2014-04-10:2014-05-06

Check here
https://zkillboard.com/system/31002466/

for number of kills from npc alts, nullsec bears or entities who support the change. oh ... wait.



I just wanted you to get your priorities straight.

Either you are the golden saviors of Eve who labor day and night to rescue the economy from the horrible WH carebear terrorists by stopping the unfathomable isk faucet at it's source, or you are a PvP corp with a very specialized role and a very specialized target.

But you're not both, you're just playing the game like the rest of us. Don't try to swaddle your self-serving defense of an impractical but enjoyable Eve lifestyle under layers of fuzzy logic and self-righteousness. I said it before, it needs to be repeated. If capital WH PvP requires NPC kill data in order to be feasible, your issue starts with that you were relying on something that you shouldn't have had access to to bypass the problem instead of letting CCP know there was a problem and asking them to fix it.

If your lifestyle is suddenly inconvenienced by this, you only have yourself to blame. You dug this hole for yourself for years, you should've thought to bring a ladder with you before now.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

RudinV
The Dozen
#475 - 2014-05-07 19:43:34 UTC
ufff that was a looong trip, but i had time to think about and now i can try to specify why its a bad "fix".
I would like to point on this problem from another side, lets ask CCP who was initiator of this fix? What was the main idea-why it should be fixed? The story with "ops, 5 years fix just came up to the mind" seems like bull** for me. Five years it was ok and now boom-we have to fix it, and u must push us really really hard to make our change mind. From what i see from some CCP FourFox that was a discussion with a group of wh dwellers and one of the general point was: its too easy to seed a cap group and kill helpless bears in few seconds.
So for now we have: Carebears who want to farm bit safer, and CCP who want to "fix" enviroment in order to balance things.
There is one general misunderstanding: carebears are not helpless. for more than 2 years of log off trapping they did not improved their game style. I mean at all. Same one armor rep fits. Same 2 dreads/1-2 carriers+webbers on the grid. Same tactics, same mistakes. They do not want to even try to adjust fittings, they do not wanna try "refit" (its not that hard guys, ive done it few times before) I mean, dont read this as pointing on some "low skill dudes, as super l33t pvper wanna point". No. Im just trying to say that instead of improving they want to change world around and be well in it. I dont want to say " wtf, this is bad, this is wrong, blahblab" No. being lazy is natural statement of nature, if u are fed, u dont wanna move, this is life. Its not dumb or smart, it is like this. I hope until now u understand everything, becouse im almost finished.
So at this point we have: people who want to be happy without improving and CCP who wants the same: them to be happy.
So finally, why it is bad: You cant make them happy, No matter what, no matter how much u do- you cant make them happy. Today they dont like api-fix it, and tomorrow they will say-the wormhole mass is too big-fix it, and they will say-we need more loot-fix it, and it will go like this forever. Try to change enviroment and u will play against evolution. Play against evolution and u will die.
Cancel API. fix no matter what you want to fix, just make this game as you see it should be. But do not listen people who choose to sit and wait the food appear, instead go and make it by yourself.


This is a prove of evoltuion.
The prove of laziness and degradation u can see at ours killboard.
Cassini Valentine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#476 - 2014-05-07 19:44:08 UTC
(Also posted in deployable structures thread)
Quote:

Radiation Detection Unit (Mobile Geiger Counter). (Designed for W-Space)

Seeing as NPC kills are being removed from api for W-Space because it's an unfair advantage to have free intel that ruins the lore aspect and immersion of w-space I would like to introduce the idea of a Radiation detection unit.

When sleepers die they emit a radiation from their core capacitor systems that leaves it's radiation signature in the system. The idea being that you can use the deployable device to measure the relative levels of radiation to pin point the time at which a magnitude of sleepers were killed. This deployable would have a data collection time of 20 minutes and would be able to detect PvE activity from up to 12 hours ago (to be tweaked). The deployable will be recognisable on d-scan and combat scanner probes.


Designed idea would be good because:

Reduces seemly emptiness of w-space through encouraging player interaction and content around the unit. W-Space is empty enough as it is PvP is very difficult to come by.
Comes to a compromise on the free intel / NPC kill information to be available for W-Space whilst in keeping with lore.
Is not an advantage provided by a 3rd party.
Used by attacking groups but gives the defenders a heads up of incoming hostilies/activity to prepare for a fight/gank.
Systems with lots of radiation (lots of PvE) are more at risk of being attacked (more PvE corresponds with increasing PvP danger)
Cannot be used to monitor NPC kills away from system for log off traps if defenders destroy the unit (log off traps will require the appropriate planning for time to gather intel).


W-Space should be dangerous, difficult and unknown. The current changes with the discovery scanner makes mass PvE too safe for its relative reward (~700 mil per capital escalation). Intel should only be gained through meaningful interaction and this deployable ensures that.


W-Space should be unknown, but not seemingly empty. Corps should only get intel that they've gathered through meaningful interaction. The deployable structure Idea is open to criticism.
Mournful Conciousness
TOHA Heavy Industries
Blades of Grass
#477 - 2014-05-07 20:14:52 UTC
We in Ember's Children support this change. We agree that w-space should be dangerous, but it should also be populated.

In recent times we have observed that there seem to be fewer and fewer people taking to their space ships in w-space and that has meant fewer targets for us.

Since we use API-based intel to find people running sites passively I have to assume that all other entrenched w-space pvp-focused corps do the same.

I think the ease of finding targets once the chain is scanned out is a likely cause of people fleeing back to k-space - they simply got blown up too often.

+1

Do it now. Save our w-space.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

HTC NecoSino
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#478 - 2014-05-07 20:23:17 UTC  |  Edited by: HTC NecoSino
New Probe:
Glimpse Probes

Scan Time = 300s (5 minutes)

What this probe does is scans a system for the dust and debris left behind from battle. Based on the strength/faintness of the signal, the probe can approximate the time frame that the debris was generated (maybe in 2 or 4 hour blocks). It would not be able to differentiate the type of debris (ships, NPC, pods, structures, etc).

Have this probe be lockable, with the same signature of, say, a noob ship, due to it's deep scanning abilities. Thus if someone launches a probe and then cloaks, a hostile could come and pop it. (Make these babies expensive!)

Black Hole System bonus: Debris degenerates 50% faster, confusing the glimpse probes and maybe destroying all signs of battle after x hours (36,48?)

Thoughts?
Go here for replies
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#479 - 2014-05-07 20:48:04 UTC
As a WH-space resident that both runs sites and scouts actively both own system and connected ones (that means, taking a covops in there) I say yes to this change.

Before all these 3rd party intel sources existed, the only way of knowing about activity in a system was to go there and scout as much as you can. If you're really interested in a system, you send some scouts that warp around with their D-Scan burning and looking for ships, wrecks, probes, POS... Those scouts can stay there as much time as the WH they came through remains there, gathering info about who is there, what do they do, what do they have... The group then decides if they want to bring their combat ships and try to destroy stuff and loot.

These API-based sources give part of this information; just by jumping through the WH and getting the system's name they provide statistics about NPC's, ships and pods killed through severals days. Of course, it could be the residents doing their stuff or someone that came to run their sites or kill them.

In my opinion, while the information provided by these 3rd party sources is indeed useful, it is not an indispensable part of any PVP activities. At the end of the day you'll be sending scouts anyway, which will give you even more information than the API did. If you're following a chain, you should be scouting the whole chain, otherwise the chances of bad things happening to your group increase a lot, and that would be completely fair: in a type of space the only info you'll get is through your scanners, not using them is comparable to having Local Chat minimized in nullsec.

I'd also like to point out there are many ways to play in WH-space, as happens in K-space. You have PVE oriented groups living in higher class WH's running capital scalations. You have PVP oriented groups living almost anywhere rolling those statics until they find something to kill and loot. You have groups that do both PVE and PVP as they please, taking all WH-space has to offer. You have PVE oriented groups that raid other systems for their sites. The list goes on.
With this I mean this issue should not take in account just the 2 first cases.

If this idea is approved and implemented, every WH resident (and raiders from K-space) will have to learn again how does WH-space work: the way it was originally intended to do. It is not impossible to gank site-runners without API intel; it requires more implication by the attackers. New hole? Take those covops, jump through and start flooding your fleet chat/TS/whatever with information and bookmarks. Stay there for some time, consider taking vigilance turns, keep at least one scout in each system of the chain you're exploring. Make sure those cloaks are running, find the site-runners, arrange a fleet adapted to what the enemy has, let the hunting begin. Just like playing WH-space was when it was first implemented. Not the end of the world.

WH-space is designed to be like living in the wild. If you want intel, you have to look it for yourself, or risk falling prey to those who do. The rewards are highly desirable: high-end salvage, ore, gas and the remains of the quite pimped-up ships needed for achieving that, as well as the stuff stored at POS'. Having access to intel through 3rd party sources does not fit with this definition of WH-space and, in my opinion, feels a bit like cheating.

That said, there's one thing API sources provide that the EVE client does not and that could be considered (italics because this could also go against the 'unknown' feeling; more on it later) to be accesible ingame: the numerical effects of system effects. Right now the only way to know wich percentages are we talking about is to open Evelopedia or these API sources and find them there. Not having access to this info ingame somehow encourages to use out of game sources; even if that source is Evelopedia, it forces you out of game and that tends to break inmersion and gameplay. It's like 'if you want to know the exact numbers, I'm sorry but you'll have to find them out in a wiki'. On the other hand, CCP might want these numbers to not be directly knowable in order to fit with the 'unknown' spirit, but since lore-wise WH-space has been explored by the Empires, it makes sense they had this information already measured and avaliable to us capsuleers.
As a suggestion, I imagine being able to right click in-space the system effect, show info and have its type, intensity and effects displayed in a comfortable window.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#480 - 2014-05-07 20:52:23 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Def Monk wrote:

There is. I was quite fond of DaOpa's idea to use their new player structure system to make an item that gathers data like this while it's anchored in a system. I chimed in that it should be combat probe findable, but not d-scanable.


I like this idea, and would agree to a whole slew of espionage deployables that encourage the use of combat probes. I only get to dust mine off about twice a week.

I'd also agree with more probing (specifically combats). But given the last 2 expansions CCP is decidedly moving away from that removing things that require probes of any sort.

But having the ability to drop Intel gathering tools in target systems would be a welcome addition ( would go a lot better than the ESS and mobile scan inhibitor junk foisted on players).

I'm right behind you