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Battleship Idea
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memnon sinluf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-05-07 15:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: memnon sinluf
Awaiting deletion
monkfish2345
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-05-07 15:20:51 UTC
this would in no way be OP......

i would suggest one of the reasons we don't already have normal t3 BS is that they would be very hard to balance properly as we've seen with t3 cruisers.
memnon sinluf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-05-07 15:22:47 UTC
monkfish2345 wrote:
this would in no way be OP......

i would suggest one of the reasons we don't already have normal t3 BS is that they would be very hard to balance properly as we've seen with t3 cruisers.


i guess im confused about your feed back , so its not OP , but you dought someones ability to fit it proporly? or am i mistaken?
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#4 - 2014-05-07 15:29:54 UTC
OP, have you ever heard of sarcasm?
monkfish2345
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-05-07 15:30:22 UTC
you need to have a think about how this kind of ship would fit in the current balance of ships of it's class.

using t3 cruisers as an example. even though they were only singular in race and has fewer bonus' they were originally better in every aspect to t2 cruisers. CCP later realised this was not the best situation as it mades HACS recons etc etc redundant . (cost should not be used as a balancing factor)

BS typically has a far more limited role set, because tof their size they are primarily focused towards being damaged based ships, t2 bs are there for niche scenarios.

The t3 bs you are proposing would outperform all current BS t1 and t2. the only limiting factor on it would be availability and cost. neither of which are useful when looking at balance (see titans)
memnon sinluf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-05-07 15:30:51 UTC
Sirinda wrote:
OP, have you ever heard of sarcasm?


but he had a valid point T3 Crusiers are hard to fit right , this would be just as hard
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#7 - 2014-05-07 15:32:48 UTC
T3s are hard to fit? In what kind of parallel universe do you live? Shocked

Bonused guns, propmod, web, scram, resists, damage mods, armor plate, there you go.
memnon sinluf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-05-07 15:33:25 UTC
monkfish2345 wrote:
you need to have a think about how this kind of ship would fit in the current balance of ships of it's class.

using t3 cruisers as an example. even though they were only singular in race and has fewer bonus' they were originally better in every aspect to t2 cruisers. CCP later realised this was not the best situation as it mades HACS recons etc etc redundant . (cost should not be used as a balancing factor)

BS typically has a far more limited role set, because tof their size they are primarily focused towards being damaged based ships, t2 bs are there for niche scenarios.

The t3 bs you are proposing would outperform all current BS t1 and t2. the only limiting factor on it would be availability and cost. neither of which are useful when looking at balance (see titans)


its cost isnt the only limiting factor , training time , money , and that it would have normalish bs hp , and slightly higher dps
infact i think its comparable too that of a normal Battleship Vs Faction Battleship

anyway would ways would you ballence it?
memnon sinluf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-05-07 15:34:34 UTC
Sirinda wrote:
T3s are hard to fit? In what kind of parallel universe do you live? Shocked

Bonused guns, propmod, web, scram, resists, damage mods, armor plate, there you go.


ok since you know more about everything it seems , how would you ballence this ship?
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#10 - 2014-05-07 15:38:36 UTC
memnon sinluf wrote:
Sirinda wrote:
T3s are hard to fit? In what kind of parallel universe do you live? Shocked

Bonused guns, propmod, web, scram, resists, damage mods, armor plate, there you go.


ok since you know more about everything it seems , how would you ballence this ship?


I wouldn't.

Right now I don't see a feasible way for CCP to include it, and lots and lots of problems if they did.
LT Alter
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#11 - 2014-05-07 15:39:18 UTC
This is a bad idea on so many levels... remember Tech 3 cruisers already have 1024 different combinations of subsystems, it's extremely hard to balance them properly, throwing battleship sides tech 3s into the mix is insane and they will definitely be too powerful.
memnon sinluf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-05-07 15:40:46 UTC
LT Alter wrote:
This is a bad idea on so many levels... remember Tech 3 cruisers already have 1024 different combinations of subsystems, it's extremely hard to balance them properly, throwing battleship sides tech 3s into the mix is insane and they will definitely be too powerful.



thank you for your feed back , i understand better now your reasoning , and i like that you were not rude in saying it.
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#13 - 2014-05-07 15:41:48 UTC
Also, with cruisers there were several T2 variants to flesh out the class.

For battleships? Marauders and Black Ops. Infringement on existing, well-defined roles is practically inevitable.
monkfish2345
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-05-07 15:42:06 UTC
training time for those that don't already have all bs to have and all sub systems to 5.... remember a lot of players have been around for a long time.
also worth saying again training time cannot be used as a balancing factor because at some point everyone will get the skills.

have a look at some of the current t3 builds. your looking at cruisers that already perform equally if not better than some t1 bs. now add 25% dm in extra turrets. another 20% damage from subsystems. (note those two would probably stack, but i'm not going to start doing maths now.

the possible numbers you'd get from a ship like this fully fitted would be obscene. i can tell you that without going over the exact details.

like i said, before we can even look at somthing like this, there would need to t3 bs already in place.

to even attempt to balance it, there would need to be a set of bs specific sub systems so that bonus amounts were kept in line with the class. as with t3's this would require a massive amount of effort so again i'm not going to start going into specifics.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#15 - 2014-05-07 15:42:10 UTC
So when you lose a T3 BS you lose a rank in all of your subsystem skills instead of just 1 right? Big smile

You would also need some good background story to explain how this Frankenstein'd hot mess came to be.

And it would also be impossible to balance. Literally impossible. Current T3 modules are balanced with each other with the caveat that one set of subsystems can only be fit to one type of ship, and never in the middle shall minmatar subsystems intermingle with gallente or anything of the sort. Allow different subsystems to be combined and you have entire worlds of buggery that can't even be described.

It's nice that you want a T3 BS, but please, you're going to need to put a lot more thought into this than what you have so far. Any new class of ship changes gameplay from the bottom of the food chain to the top, so unless you want to re-design Eve I think you should stick to just telling CCP that you want a T3 BS, and let them decide if it's feasible or not.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
memnon sinluf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-05-07 15:45:32 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
So when you lose a T3 BS you lose a rank in all of your subsystem skills instead of just 1 right? Big smile

You would also need some good background story to explain how this Frankenstein'd hot mess came to be.

And it would also be impossible to balance. Literally impossible. Current T3 modules are balanced with each other with the caveat that one set of subsystems can only be fit to one type of ship, and never in the middle shall minmatar subsystems intermingle with gallente or anything of the sort. Allow different subsystems to be combined and you have entire worlds of buggery that can't even be described.

It's nice that you want a T3 BS, but please, you're going to need to put a lot more thought into this than what you have so far. Any new class of ship changes gameplay from the bottom of the food chain to the top, so unless you want to re-design Eve I think you should stick to just telling CCP that you want a T3 BS, and let them decide if it's feasible or not.


ship idea was edited to normal faction no subs normal hp etc
monkfish2345
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-05-07 15:46:44 UTC
i just want to say, that despite that fact that this will receive an overwhelmingly negative response. don't take it personally. even if you end up posting 100 bad ideas I'd encourage everyone to try and put your ideas out there just in case you hit on something good.

mark this one down as a miss.
memnon sinluf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-05-07 15:53:39 UTC
monkfish2345 wrote:
i just want to say, that despite that fact that this will receive an overwhelmingly negative response. don't take it personally. even if you end up posting 100 bad ideas I'd encourage everyone to try and put your ideas out there just in case you hit on something good.

mark this one down as a miss.


took your thoughts in how op it was with no role specific identity and figured i could make something genaric like the gnosis
but a battleship
i reduced the bonus's
removed sub systems
increased normal hp
monkfish2345
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-05-07 16:05:57 UTC
ok I'm going to keep challenging you on this, in part because i think your now just wanting any idea of yours to go forward without really caring what it is.

firstly the gnosis is not a particularly good example to base the design of a ship on because it was given as a gift and was not designed to become a major part of the eve universe.

this leads to the questions why would we have this ship? what does it give us that we don't already have?

if we take the gnosis as an example there are limited fits for it that can really be considered viable, and of them you will find there is a ship in the same class that will outperform it.

especially with the rebalanced BS each ship for each race has a fairly well defined role, and i'm not sure your ship would compete with many of them. which is the same problem the gnosis has.
memnon sinluf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-05-07 16:09:05 UTC  |  Edited by: memnon sinluf
monkfish2345 wrote:
ok I'm going to keep challenging you on this, in part because i think your now just wanting any idea of yours to go forward without really caring what it is.

firstly the gnosis is not a particularly good example to base the design of a ship on because it was given as a gift and was not designed to become a major part of the eve universe.

this leads to the questions why would we have this ship? what does it give us that we don't already have?

if we take the gnosis as an example there are limited fits for it that can really be considered viable, and of them you will find there is a ship in the same class that will outperform it.

especially with the rebalanced BS each ship for each race has a fairly well defined role, and i'm not sure your ship would compete with many of them. which is the same problem the gnosis has.


Love your question , Unlike most i like defined roles but i also Love versitility
im not a fleet user , but i like the gnosis becuase even though im not the best at anything , i can still do it good . mabey not great

the Bonus the gnosis has that no one seems to get is that it Has no role
you don't know whats on a gnosis by its name
its an oblong
a oddity
and i love odditys

"o no! a Gnosis jk jk that thing has a crappy tank and no dps hardly ..."
yeah well when you get close enough too hit me my 4 friends will uncloak with there Gnosis then the tables turn
becuase you know not what we will do ECM? DPS? FAST? SLOW? TANK? TACKLE? by the time you figure us out we will be on our way too confusing you more next time with a totaly diffrent fit :P
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