Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Has there ever been a serious consideration of removing nanoribbons from sleepless guardian salvage? Imho it would take care of several issues at once at literally zero cost (afaik CCP can change drops/salvage very easily without touching any "horrific legacy code".)

• capital escalations get a ~20% income nerf, which would go a long way in balancing risk/reward, especially after the proposed changes (api/sigs)
• C1-C4 income would be buffed significantly
• t3s get back to a reasonable price (I think we can all agree that 300m for a t1/t2 fitted t3 vessel is way cheap)

Do you have any opinion on this? Maybe you could take it up with CCP ..

I feel it make sens to remove NPC kills.

If we use logic, the only entity that would be able to provide this information would be Concord. Now they know when a POD dies since it activates a clone and they know when a ship dies because of insurance.

Since there is no bounty in wormhole I feel that there is no way for Concord to know when an NPC ship was killed.
Since there is no gates, they is no way for them to know when someone jumped in a wormhole system.

To be honest if I was still living in a wormhole I would really hate this change since it's giving a lot of intel on your system. Back when I was living in wormhole space I would monitor Dotlan like crazy to know if any jumps occurred in our system. We were a small corps of real life friends that were living there so it was very easy to know if the jumps were potential hostile people. If we ended up seeing jump number that were not even (one jump in, one jump out) we would be extra super careful and be hitting DScan like crazy until we saw that the missing jump occurred.

I think that this was very useful but a the same time it was kind of breaking the purpose of wormhole, where intel should be minimal.

So if your argument to remove this feature from wh space then you must be going to remove it from null sec too as the same argument applies here too

In the end there's all this talk about the bad carebears, yet all the "PVP" entities farm just as much if not more than some of the carebears... and trust me when i say not all the isk stays in wh space.

If ppl are so upset with farming, ppl would put some effort into better coordinating and literally ganking all the "bears" in wh space. But i bet about 1/3 to 1/2 of them are "our" alts so we wouldnt wanna gank them right ? I mean **** the other dudes income but not mine yeah ?

Lets be honest here we care somewhat but not enough to actually "manipulate" the price of ribbons and put a stop to nonsensical farming for K space supers or rmt or whatever.

As far as i know the only coordinated effort to stop farming is between the two sister corps/alliance syndicate of death and quantum explotion. The rest casually gank things if it's within their actual reach.

However ****** it may be that it makes it among other changes safer for PVErs, it's always the trend in MMOs to make it "better" for the majority of players. This specific change makes it more effort to gank ppl, those who really want to gank ppl will spend that extra effort in doing so because it's what they like and what they do. Those who have been lazy so far will continue to do so.


There's been a lot of talk about the blue donut of wh space in the past. Funny how the isk flows straight behind it and that isn't a problem, cuz they're on "our" team.


You wont more effect? You want to hold the price of nanos higher while the farmers farm less? Maybe coordinate better with other groups i'm sure 100 will achieve better results than 10 over time doing roughly the same thing even if not as proficient.

Which argument?

Others have said that farmer systems looks a particular way. Maybe you're missing something? Either way you're getting free intel for no effort. That's not the EvE way.

I'm just going to throw a synopsis out of what we've learned from this thread and call it a day. I'm tired of this topic.

C5/C6 WHers are having problems using WH mechanics for specific playstyles, and are using information that was not intended to be available to players, be they PvPers or carebears, to facilitate that playstyle. That doesn't mean that their capital PvP-heavy playstyle is wrong for WH's, just that the mechanics need adjusting and they need to learn how to use the mechanics to facilitate that playstyle instead of a source of information that shouldn't have existed in the first place. People are also using WH mechanics to live almost completely threat-free from many PvP tactics (which also needs to be addressed as a separate issue and does not excuse the existence of the NPC kill data) aside from log off lurking which the PvPers have found to be their most reliable tactic for getting PvE capital kills. The fix to both of these issues is not going to be discovered in a day, but I can tell you this...

The sooner the NPC kill information is removed from the API, the sooner WH mechanics will be fixed.

Where does this leap of logic come from? Right now all of the information CCP has on WH's is basically corrupt, because it has all been influenced by something outside the system the use of which CCP can't monitor. If CCP can't monitor how that data is being used they can't determine what is working in WH space and what isn't. The sooner they start receiving clean data on how WH space is functioning the sooner they can do something to address the problems WH players have with how the mechanics either facilitate or disrupt their playstyle.

The rest of WH space kind of likes this, but it hasn't been explained why, and I'll try to. C5/C6 corps are very tight knit corps. They have to be because the lost sheep gets cut from the flock very fast in C5/C6 WH's. WH's require a fairly sizable support network to accomplish tasks reliably and efficiently. You have to have scouts on the door, you have to have a reasonable number of people to deal with potential threats, hell, even a show of force is a powerful tool in WH space. Just having people online and visible to potential enemies makes a huge difference in how they act.

So in C5's and C6's the people in a corporation with different schedules get weeded out very quickly. They log on and there is nothing for them to do because they can't accomplish anything unless there are a sufficient number of corpmates on. This is true in a lot of other parts of space, but it is much more drastic in the high class WH's.

C4 and down are a different world entirely. A lot of the corps I've seen are multinational/have a broad operating schedule and they work fine because it takes fewer players to accomplish goals in the lower class WH's. Traffic is higher so the content is entirely different. When they roll holes their goal is make some ISK out of a fresh system, and be ready for any PvP opportunities that present themselves while they are doing this. PvP opportunities are much more common because there are more players in the lower class WH's, including quite a few who wander in from K-space (we love you guys, you should drop by more often. Just think of the bubbles that appear on the exits and the face-shooting/podding as a WH handshake.)

You can have 100 active players in a lower class WH corp and only see 10 of them online at any given time, and it works for them. This actually works rather well because the primary source of income for many lower class WH's is not their home system, but the systems they roll into. The NPC kill data stops being 100% accurate once you consider that those kills have a very high chance of not being done by the residents, but by visitors who rolled into the hole during the residents' downtime. Lower class WH residents also tend to spend more time farming not just because the risk to reward ratio is much lower, but because more effort is needed to ensure you don't get caught with your junk hanging out in the cold, lonely harshness of space due to the higher traffic.

There are many types of gameplay out in WH space, but I think the differences between the typical behavior between C5/C6 residents and the rest of WH space need to be pointed out, because there is a large discrepancy created by the accessibility of them that changes almost every other dynamic.

TLDR: C5's and C6's have gameplay issues that need to be addressed, and players have been using NPC kill data as a means to an end. Many of us in the rest of Eve realize you've got problems, but that doesn't mean that the NPC kill data should be accessible. It means you should have been much more vocal about the gameplay issues you are experiencing so that CCP could have addressed them first, and this could have come later.

That's what happens when you lean on a cracked crutch too hard, it eventually breaks. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move on.

I must be missing something to. Please, tell us, how to get this intel through different mechanics?

Insert one character in a covert ops class frigate. Fit it with a covert ops cloaking device and an expanded probe launcher. Carry a set of core and combat probes, for use in the expanded probe launcher. Once you have located a new wormhole, enter it, cloak, and use the probe launcher, the directional scanner, and your eyes to determine if a system has the Dreaded PvE Demons within. Launch an overwhelming force at the Demons, so that your own PvE group's profitability stays at an acceptable level.