Player Features and Ideas Discussion

OK after reading this no wormhole resident can ever say anything about local giving instant intel in 0.0 i'll most definatly refer them to this post.

On a side note take away the information from the api key and remove the system id's too just to be spiteful or let it assign a new id each time you jump into a system that way they really won't know where they are.

This is valuable information which is used to plan a lurk of a system. The API feeds into third-party mapping tools such as www.wh.pasta.gg (ie; wormhol.es) and Staticmapper, which allows you to see that, eg, 24 or 48 or so hours ago sites were run, and might be run again, which allows you to lurk.

Yes, Blood union and C5-6 guys use it to logoff trap caps in those classes of wormhole. Is this how the API was meant to be used? Probably not. it only works as a way of murdering carebears (it's not really PVP in practise bbecause 15 dreads, srs) because sleepers point everything, and people are using capitals. indeed, almost must use capitals or at least highly immobile Marauders.

These are both the same type of activity, though on a different scale and scope, and different implementation. On the one hand, I have lurked low-class wormholes for up to 10 days, based on API generated NPC farming behaviour, to bag shiny kills. On the oother hand, clearly Blood union and other logoff trappers spend days assembling capitals in a system prior to pulling an attack. Both styles of gameplay require information, dedication and planning. Remooving the information just because it is API based is logical, but ridiculous.

Now, to the gist of my point: remove this from k-space.

I live in a C3/U210 and connect to lowsec and nullsec regularly. nullsec roams which focus on finding and killing carebears use starmap data, which it appears is generated by the API. Third-party tools such as GARPA's trawl API information to generate hotspot activity of ratting, jumps, people in space, etc.

On DOTLAN you can use your IGB to browse jump density records for nullsec systems, and ratting patterns, to determine when people are likely to be moving through various areas, to plan gate camps, roams, logoff traps for ratters or miners in ore anomalies, etc. Is this what you intended for the star map?

If the API is not intended for the purpose of PVPing, or generating kill data, or allowing people to find other people, then you must logically remove API kill logs, jumps and so on from k-space as well, and nobble the star map of its usefulness.

The fact is, on the one hand, k-space gets free intel which allows people to find one another for the purposes of sandboxing and creating the M's in MMO. On the other hand, w-space is not going to get it, just because "it's from the API"?

As immersion-breaking as free intel may be, the fact is, if no one had local, and everyone stayed cloaked all the time in EVE, it would be a terribly boring game. W-space relies on the API kill logs to at least give people the whiff of someone else being online around the same time of day, within the past 48 hours, to get people into a system for more than 5 minutes.

I think you should consider that it is inherently unfair, illogical and baseless to remove something from w-space, yet maintain it in k-space, under your logic.

Sure, this won't kill w-space. I'm immune to it, because I've got a U210 and can shoost fools in brosec.

What will you replace it with? You say the star map runs off SDE, not the API. This is an irrelevant discussion - as pointed out, GARPA tools and DOTLAN allow you to plan out your gatecamps or k-space logoff traps from API data. Someone could just re-purpose Siggy to show realtime nullsec ratting in a cool IGB widget.

So why don't you make something for the client for wormholes - ADD content, don't just remove it.

LMAO plus one

In some of the original discussion in the other thread, some of CCP Foxfour's reasoning was
basically

in true CCP PR fashion - the yardstick of "why we want to make a change" continually moves once announced because they literally have no idea about how to propose changes to a customer group without stepping all over their ..... lips.

So no - it's not garbage in the context of the original poorly thought-out keyboard-mashing attempt to find some justification of why this change is a "good" change.

you'll probably find that nearly everything people do in wormholes was not what ccp intended. I honestly expected them to redesign the whole thing by now, but I think they don't want to upset people.

Perhaps you should try and not be insulting in a discussion thread. It's no secret that this is, and has been the MO for SA/GSF since it's inception. Name calling doesn't change that pretty well documented fact.

no really you are suggesting that we have some sort of hidden agenda in supporting this change

tell us what you think this agenda is, i need a good laugh

GARPA, DOTLAN, and other similar websites are all displaying data already available in-game, on the in-game map, just in a different format. I personally prefer the in-game map with the customizations I've made to how it displays information and use that. Often unflattened, because it's ******* awesome. Thanks CCP.

How did that information get there? CCP put it there. They chose to make the information available on the map as a deliberate choice of design meant to assist players in K-space in pursuing their individual playstyles, whether that be instigating fights, avoiding fights, watching fights, or finding a nice, quiet place to make some good ISK. If, for instance, you imagined all of the activities possible in eve, think of the in-game map as a spoon that CCP gave the players to stir their own pot. If you don't stir periodically, don't complain that your stew is burnt while your neighbor's is delicious.

Now... Show me where your C3 is on the map....

Wormhole space was not given a map, or given this data, specifically to create a different environment where players could engage in a different style of play. Players provide their own spoon. Oh, and their own stew. You better light your own fire too out of your own wood that you forage for in the wild, because this is the frontier, buddy. You're not just off the beaten path, but if you try to make a path the jungle may just swallow you whole.

Players in wormholes provide themselves with their own shelter, their own protection, and their own sustenance, it is only natural that they provide their own intel.

If CCP is going ahead and still changing K162's so i can even see one if me and 4 others have all our probes out until 5-10 minutes after it appeared, then yeah, remove API stats on wormholes, any arguement that "theyre protecting the carebear" is completely countered by the fact that you can even less prepare/protect yourself against an incoming fleet than before the discovery scanner, sicne the enmy can be through adn in warp before you even know a K162 has appeared.

You know exactly where and when people are going to be doing things. Seeding an overwhelming login trap for that particular time/place isn't even a challenge at that point.