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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Make all ships in game modular, with fixed slots.

Author
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-04-30 23:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Erufen Rito
Ok, maybe the subject line is not enough space to describe what I'm aiming for.

So, as many of you seasoned pvpers know, by watching a ship's effects, you can guess their fit. Shield vs armor, tracking computers vs sebos, rails and blasters, so on and so forth etc. Why not take it a step further?

Make your fit influence the way the ship looks. For example, an armor tanked rifter would look beeffier, with thicker plates, or even the exposed cross beams to be covered up. For shields, maybe have "emiter blocks" sit around the hull of the ship, so a rifter with a shield tank would look pretty much the same as it does now, with a few extra "somethings" to indicate it being a shield tank. Not sure how you would interpret hull, since it's not supposed to be visible because of the armor.

For MWD vs AB, make the bells on the thrusters bigger or longer for either.

Stuff like that. Any thoughts?

inb4 performance issues, because T3 blobs work just fine.

Edit: While I'm at it. Make turrets for things like target painters, remote reps and energy xfers/syphons/neuts. I can see some objection to the target painter, since it's a med slot module, but having the lazor sphere around the ship doesn't make much sence to me anyway.

Also, cap modules, like injectors, boosters and batteries, be represented on the hull by some sort of battery pack, or a glowy reactor for injectors. stuff like that.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-05-01 03:27:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Erufen Rito wrote:

inb4 performance issues, because T3 blobs work just fine.



t3 are only 4 ships. And I am sure ccp tweaked coding and graphics for them before release as to their credit I have never seen graphics bugs like say in FPS where change of weapon or such caused mild to wild glitches in display. Now I did get the tengu flying backwards bug once (it literally flies backwards) but it was cool and interesting enough and only happened once so I will let it slide.


With bs' alone are you looking 30+ model combos as we go down the roll call of vanilla t1, navy, pirate, and t2. I am even being nice here, Not counting the limited edition bs' as they are usually hangar queens that never undock.
Gigan Amilupar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-05-01 03:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Gigan Amilupar
I would rather see all T2, Navy, and Pirate ships have unique hulls. Not to mention the incredible amount of work it would take to make all ships have multiple appearances.
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-05-01 03:45:45 UTC
Maybe if it was something more like turrets in the game where adding them on the ship adds the graphic itself to the hull would make it easier.
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-05-01 03:51:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Erufen Rito
Zan Shiro wrote:
Erufen Rito wrote:

inb4 performance issues, because T3 blobs work just fine.



t3 are only 4 ships. And I am sure ccp tweaked coding and graphics for them before release as to their credit I have never seen graphics bugs like say in FPS where change of weapon or such caused mild to wild glitches in display. Now I did get the tengu flying backwards bug once (it literally flies backwards) but it was cool and interesting enough and only happened once so I will let it slide.


With bs' alone are you looking 30+ model combos as we go down the roll call of vanilla t1, navy, pirate, and t2. I am even being nice here, Not counting the limited edition bs' as they are usually hangar queens that never undock.



As true as that is, you are assuming that once one variant of a T3 is loaded, then all matching ones are also loaded. You are also picturing the worst case scenario, in which a huge fleet is using each possible combination on each ship.

If the current blob trends remain the same with this change, it wouldn't be much different than loading a current T3 blob.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165

Cekle Skyscales
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-05-01 05:46:31 UTC
Erufen Rito wrote:

As true as that is, you are assuming that once one variant of a T3 is loaded, then all matching ones are also loaded. You are also picturing the worst case scenario, in which a huge fleet is using each possible combination on each ship.

If the current blob trends remain the same with this change, it wouldn't be much different than loading a current T3 blob.


In programming you -always- plan for worst case.

Also the "if this current trend continues" is a fallacious argument.
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-05-01 05:54:50 UTC
Cekle Skyscales wrote:
Erufen Rito wrote:

As true as that is, you are assuming that once one variant of a T3 is loaded, then all matching ones are also loaded. You are also picturing the worst case scenario, in which a huge fleet is using each possible combination on each ship.

If the current blob trends remain the same with this change, it wouldn't be much different than loading a current T3 blob.


In programming you -always- plan for worst case.

Also the "if this current trend continues" is a fallacious argument.

Ok, so you mean to tell me that the game's code and server structure is fit to have every single existing toon on the same grid, each having a uniquely fit ship, each doing something different?

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-05-01 07:21:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Erufen Rito wrote:
Cekle Skyscales wrote:
Erufen Rito wrote:

As true as that is, you are assuming that once one variant of a T3 is loaded, then all matching ones are also loaded. You are also picturing the worst case scenario, in which a huge fleet is using each possible combination on each ship.

If the current blob trends remain the same with this change, it wouldn't be much different than loading a current T3 blob.


In programming you -always- plan for worst case.

Also the "if this current trend continues" is a fallacious argument.

Ok, so you mean to tell me that the game's code and server structure is fit to have every single existing toon on the same grid, each having a uniquely fit ship, each doing something different?



Obviously no....there are always limits. This would be why you get the lovely traffic jam messages when a node is done. Or you black screen of death in a 0.0/low system maxed out. Black screen means you are qeue'd to get in...probably dead from lag but at some you will enter that system.


But what he says is very true, always assume worst case. take some CS classes. I have scripts/programs that the actual "working' code is 50% or less of the written code. What's the other 50%? Error checking, use input checking, in the case of sql input cleaning/validation (to prevent benign to malignant injections). If I don't factor in worst case my code is a lot smaller and probably runs a bit faster without all the if-then-else and such. It also be a program that would break alot easier.


Also you have to factor in this is eve. People need an edge or a hail mary, they will do just aout anything. Passing of bm's via jet can dumps for a long time was a good efficient way to pass bm's. Then one day some blobbers asked this question: What if for giggles we have 500 people drop bm cans at almost the same time. The answer they found was node pushed to failure was a very real possibility. back before tidi wars it was node crash wars. Someone defending a home system needing a node reset to get a break would do just about anything to crash the node.
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-05-01 07:26:17 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Erufen Rito wrote:
Cekle Skyscales wrote:
Erufen Rito wrote:

As true as that is, you are assuming that once one variant of a T3 is loaded, then all matching ones are also loaded. You are also picturing the worst case scenario, in which a huge fleet is using each possible combination on each ship.

If the current blob trends remain the same with this change, it wouldn't be much different than loading a current T3 blob.


In programming you -always- plan for worst case.

Also the "if this current trend continues" is a fallacious argument.

Ok, so you mean to tell me that the game's code and server structure is fit to have every single existing toon on the same grid, each having a uniquely fit ship, each doing something different?



Obviously no....there are always limits. This would be why you get the lovely traffic jam messages when a node is done. Or you black screen of death in a 0.0/low system maxed out. Black screen means you are qeue'd to get in...probably dead from lag but at some you will enter that system.


But what he says is very true, always assume worst case. take some CS classes. I have scripts/programs that the actual "working' code is 50% or less of the written code. What's the other 50%? Error checking, use input checking, in the case of sql input cleaning/validation (to prevent benign to malignant injections). If I don't factor in worst case my code is a lot smaller and probably runs a bit faster without all the if-then-else and such. It also be a program that would break alot easier.


Also you have to factor in this is eve. People need an edge or a hail mary, they will do just aout anything. Passing of bm's via jet can dumps for a long time was a good efficient way to pass bm's. Then one day some blobbers asked this question: What if for giggles we have 500 people drop bm cans at almost the same time. The answer they found was node pushed to failure was a very real possibility. back before tidi wars it was node crash wars. Someone defending a home system needing a node reset to get a break would do just about anything to crash the node.

I can't imagine this implementation having any more impact on server performance than refitting a fleet of T3s off a carier or whatever that floating module is called.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-05-01 07:31:41 UTC
Erufen Rito wrote:
I can't imagine this implementation having any more impact on server performance than refitting a fleet of T3s off a carier or whatever that floating module is called.



Were recent massive battles that ran for hours and hours and hours t3 based or non t3?


CCP has to factor in scale. You are thinking maybe 50-100 ia m guessing. In recent months we have had battles in the 1000's.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#11 - 2014-05-01 07:35:27 UTC
Erufen Rito wrote:
or whatever that floating module is called.


It's generally advisable that you know what you're talking about before you actually post. Helps people take you seriously when proposing radical ideas(which are usually glazed over by CCP). Blink
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-05-01 07:51:49 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
Erufen Rito wrote:
or whatever that floating module is called.


It's generally advisable that you know what you're talking about before you actually post. Helps people take you seriously when proposing radical ideas(which are usually glazed over by CCP). Blink

I know what I'm talking about, but it's 3am and I have no desire to ring up the right name for the thing. You are a smart kid, you can infer what I meant to say.

Zan Shiro wrote:
Erufen Rito wrote:
I can't imagine this implementation having any more impact on server performance than refitting a fleet of T3s off a carier or whatever that floating module is called.



Were recent massive battles that ran for hours and hours and hours t3 based or non t3?


CCP has to factor in scale. You are thinking maybe 50-100 ia m guessing. In recent months we have had battles in the 1000's.

I'm well aware of the scale of the fights we've seen that have caused TiDi and pushed the boundaries of what the server could manage.

If anything, it would be the clients who have the most trouble coping with having to render each unique variant of each ship.

Then again, how many have we had that compare to those worst case scenarios, that have this whole concept under such a terrible light?

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165

motie one
Secret Passage
#13 - 2014-05-01 07:54:40 UTC
I think this comes under the heading of nice to have but......

More immersive graphics are always nice, and why not if the costs that have to be paid justify it.

There are a lot of considerations, no need for me or others to make a list which just becomes a critic of what is a fine and nice Idea, we can have nice things and that is a good and positive concept.

Hopefully CCP will see your request and factor it in with their future plans. But there are many conflicting demands for their time and resources.

It will be nice if one day in the future you can see your proposal come to life and you can think that you made EvE a little better with your ideas.

But do not be disappointed if it will not be for a while.
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-05-01 07:57:41 UTC
motie one wrote:
I think this comes under the heading of nice to have but......

More immersive graphics are always nice, and why not if the costs that have to be paid justify it.

There are a lot of considerations, no need for me or others to make a list which just becomes a critic of what is a fine and nice Idea, we can have nice things and that is a good and positive concept.

Hopefully CCP will see your request and factor it in with their future plans. But there are many conflicting demands for their time and resources.

It will be nice if one day in the future you can see your proposal come to life and you can think that you made EvE a little better with your ideas.

But do not be disappointed if it will not be for a while.

I've put 3 years into this game, and I've watched it grow and stumble. I have no qualms with waiting, and this idea never being considered, so long as it continues delivering the very important Fun I pay for.

That being said, this is not something I feel it's absolutely necessary. I would probably enjoy it for the first few months, and my ego would get the best of me and I would claim all credit for coming up with this. And once my hype dies down, and my ego goes back to it's cage, I will probably stop noticing it all together, up until I'm forming up to gank someone.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165

Sigras
Conglomo
#15 - 2014-05-01 08:12:30 UTC
this would be awesome to see, but announcing that they were going to do this would cause their art team to commit suicide...

Have you ever tried 3D modeling? because it's hard, and when I say it's hard, I mean HOLY FREAKING CRAP is it hard.

I seem to remember a dev post about the art team wanting to strangle someone because they added a turret to the rifter or something... IIRC it's also why the naglfar only has 2 turrets still. Even finding new places to put turrets or "effect generators" on current models is freaking difficult without them looking kludged on.

If you think the V3 project took a long time, or wondered why missile launchers were a main expansion feature, now you know why. If they started today, they might be done before my buddy's newborn gets out of high school, and good luck asking for any new ships/skins/models/effects in the mean time.
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-05-01 08:15:50 UTC
Sigras wrote:
this would be awesome to see, but announcing that they were going to do this would cause their art team to commit suicide...

Have you ever tried 3D modeling? because it's hard, and when I say it's hard, I mean HOLY FREAKING CRAP is it hard.

I seem to remember a dev post about the art team wanting to strangle someone because they added a turret to the rifter or something... IIRC it's also why the naglfar only has 2 turrets still. Even finding new places to put turrets or "effect generators" on current models is freaking difficult without them looking kludged on.

If you think the V3 project took a long time, or wondered why missile launchers were a main expansion feature, now you know why. If they started today, they might be done before my buddy's newborn gets out of high school, and good luck asking for any new ships/skins/models/effects in the mean time.

I may not know much in the realm of coding, but I do know my way around 3d modeling. I know that it is a ***** to work with, and it's even a bigger ***** to implement on mirrored props. Anchoring them to the main mesh, and having the skin correctly wrap around them both would be yet another massive pain in the ass, but it would still be nice to have :P

As in, if I was in charge of bringing this to life, I'd do it without bitching once. (Id probably go catatonic before I even finish, but eh.)

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165