EVE Information Portal

Considering how few science services are available in empire, the costs of research in station may be very pricy, also Tech 3 science and industry can't be done in stations. The question that is still lingering will be changes to speed bonuses for array use. Station services can be soul-crushingly slow, especially for T2 production.

And the question remains of how much more pricy than running a POS (fuel, modules, and the risk factor)?

You give Aryth too much credit. The goon financiers may be diabolical, even evil. But even they aren't that powerful.

The greatest trick the devil played was to convince people he did not exist.

I don't know what planet Weaselior is from, but you're too kind to him Sizeof Void.

Depending on how the next couple of dev-blogs go, there might be a substantial exodus of players from the game by the time the revamp goes into effect. At any rate, the last thing that will stop them from leaving is obvious nullbears mocking anyone for telling things from a different perspective that doesn't fit their own -- yeah, I'm so looking forward to paying rent to people who think like Weaselior. I thought it was bad enough having to pay CCP.

Hopefully CCP has a better answer than the ones they've given so far.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't looking to be "objective" in my post rather I was articulating the frustration High Sec Industrialists have expressed regarding the upcoming changes. Let me turn the argument around and ask exactly what your specific High Sec Industrial experience is? Build a few tormentors or shuttles during the Career Missions 100 years ago? I oversee 12-20 Billion in production per week, with BPO assets exceeding 80 Billion. I know my credentials and qualifications to speak about how High Sec Industrialists think of these changes, care to enlighten me as to yours? Or are you just a troll looking to see your name in lights?

If you read CCP Dev blogs, Jester's Blog and countless others you would understand that there is a concerted effort to move more industry to Null(exactly what do you think this entire debacle is for?) My point, for the 38th time, is that there is a large group of High Sec manufacturers who do not want to go to Null and very probably will stop production because the risk(BPO's must be in POS), aggravation(make BPO copies for every high value POS job), additional expense(variable taxes even on POS production) and competitive disadvantage(duh, Nulsec is cheaper) that HS Industry will now incur. There is no "imaginary" obstacle to High Sec enjoyment of Industry, this dev blog makes it reality.

Let me just pre-empt your very witty response-of course no one is saying build here or else, instead they are taking all motivation to build in location "A" and moving it to location "B" which coincidentally is the place no one wants to live as evidenced by all the null bears who come to high sec for carebear thrills(Way to pwn that unarmed industrial, you manly man).



Post Script: Objective; (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts. (Of course I'm not being objective, everything I'm saying on this thread is influenced by MY opinions regarding the facts laid in the CCP changes)

As an addition to my previous post on concerns involving the proposed changes it became apparent that some argue with the specific change off removing empire restriction as beneficial and good for the bottom line.

There are some misconceptions with current system.

a. In it's current form it actually favors those smaller corps who through various strategies can easily get the standing to set a tower.

Example:
1. A group of young industrialist with similar faction preference form a new corp and earn a slightly protected niche through service to their particular faction.

2. An established corporation decides to operate a POS in high-sec, members with poor standing drop for little over a week while those with good standing further increase it and possibly take advantage of one of the several faction building services(optional)

There are other ways but those are the two most likely, and in both instances it would be in their interest to defend the existing High-sec POS than pull up stakes every time the wind blow foul.


b. Removing the standing restriction will allow very large firmly established corporations to drop POS's everywhere, ironicly allowing them to move certain assets out of true harms way,


To be perfectly candid every lost POS I've seen in High-sec was solely due either inadequate/zero defenses and operator inexperience. As a counter point to that in low there are these really nasty things called capital ships that are able to tank even decent POS with little support, additionally a low-sec POS can be hit at anytime with or without a war dec

The standing mechanic in high-sec is balanced even if it is annoying as listening to Teletubbies and Barry blaring at full volume with driving in rush hour traffic in an older major city

Basically this. People are losing some of the advantages they used to have and are complaining as the playing field is leveled.

Oh noes...my economic rents!!!

The problem in this assumption is, that it ignores the removal of extra materials and the integration of them into the regular materials for production. And since for T2 manufacturing you have the T2 components in the extra materials category, you will most likely, so summer comes, face a huge blast of increased manufacturing costs, given there are no steps intended by CCP to counter that effect when removing extra materials.

Assuming that materials stay the same and the cost scaling can be managed down to an insignificant factor, the only margin killer i see, is the ease of use (hopefully) provided by the new industry UI. Currently it is a plain PITA to get invention/research/production done in a large scale (and i'm talking roughly 200 manufacturing jobs per day for a single person here). Requiring about 10 seconds top for a single job to install (i attribute about 4s of that to the f***ing slow UI-to-Server reaction time), this adds up to a very large time investment. Together with standing requirements for a POS this stops many a potential T2 manufacturer from stepping in and providing some competition. Take away the chunk of this hassle, and i'm sure, there will be a lot more small producers, each focusing on a certain tiny set of T2 modules/rigs/ammo/ships (accompanied by the leave of bigger ones, judging from the ranting in this thread).
So maybe (under the so far very uncertain assumption, that the changes get implemented properly) this can serve as a prime example, that should be applied to other aspects of the game, too. Meaning it would in many areas be healthy to partly tear down large established entities in favor of support to many smaller ones. Again, just an thought...



There might be some incentive from CCP to "encourage" the industrialists to move to null, but what many opponents of the upcoming changes seem to miss is, that it is simply not possible to move industry in large to nullsec. At least not in a magnitude, many fear would be the case. I'm pretty sure, CCP could provide us with some numbers, showing how many m³ of goods get produced in hisec/lowsec/nullsec per day and how much of that gets moved to the other areas of space. And in comparison to that maybe some nullsec logisticians might care to share (rough) estimates of a nullsec powerbloc's hauling capabilities (and the fuel costs associated with it). Ah, and all those numbers should exclude cap and supercap production if possible.

Sure, some stuff will be rather produced locally in null, instead of moving materials to hs and building/buying it there. But for many things that require a wast amount of different ingredients, the logistic overhead will definitely out weight the (supposed to be small, but again, GIVE US NUMBERS, CCP!!) advantage of null factories over highsec stations/POSes.

As you mention it... since CONCORD is not able to provide direct chat access in W-space, how is the SCC or any other NPC corp (assuming that the fees for jobs are paid to these NPC entities) supposed to collect the fees from W-space POS? Of course, it's just a game and logic only goes so far; but how could the SCC reach W-space to collect fees when it's mighty mother company CONCORD cannot access W-space?

@Soldarius (or shall I say Hibana?)

Wonderful post of you. I just hope you give me reason to put my ignorance away, because as things stand there is no reason to show 00 sec any less of it.