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Remove 8.0+ standings to install Jump Clones
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#41 - 2014-04-21 21:43:28 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Quote:
What advantage would there be in an entirely player run mechanism?


-That no matter what u do as a profession, its not any easier or harder to get JC's
- U dnt have to corp hop to get JC's. ur corp provides for u if they have the equipment
- The service is buildable, destroyable, costs money, resources, takes time
- that NPC's and PvE are not directly involved. as CCP will tell u, the less NPC involvement the better.


1st point is moot. You can already use Rorqus and Titans for clones.
2nd is moot and removes yet another player profession.
3rd is vague as you still have not managed to come up with something that is as easy and straightforward and reliable as NPC standings.
4th is moot as NPC are part of the game and you already don't necessarily need them for JCs or anything.

Again, what this removal of the standing idea suggests is a step backwards from CCP's current scheme of driving people into the more dangerous and allegedly more fun environments of EVE. Where is the point of giving players easier access to JCs in High sec if they can get it already with easy access in Low sec and 00 sec? (which is another question you have also yet failed to answer.)

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#42 - 2014-04-21 22:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
1. assuming JC's are still supposed to be more available to null seccers than empire players, then fine. But that shouldnt apply anymore in the same way that warping to 15km isnt default anymore. players get around it. it serves no purpose anymore.

2. what player profession was that? having a corp for others to use for JC's? if thats considered a player profession, it would still be doable, but less necessary. no hearts will be broken. Or if someone quits because they cant do that anymore, then CCP can change it back.

3. Working on it. and ill flesh it out as soon as.

4. They are part of the game. CCP are working on making them a lesser part of the game. dnt worry, this doesnt mean the complete removal of NPC's. Just their necessity. It wont hurt ur missions.

JC's dnt drive anyone anywhere. i have never spoken to anyone who said they went to null JUST to get a jumpclone. And one guy said he grinded it in a day. The current system is clearly not working as a deterrent or goal, no incentive is given to go else where. its an annoyance that is as easily worked around as bookmarking 15km beyond a gate. The point is to increase player services and assets that work as conflict and interaction drivers, remove career bias or the forcing to run missions when u may not even want combat skills and to remove the necessity of silly workarounds.

ive answered that question several times now.

edit- and the access to low and null is not as easy as ur saying. not everyone has a Rorqual or (edit2-old supers)Carrier. Not everyone is friendly with null sec blocks. i dnt see a reason why u SHOULD have to have either of these for JC's.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#43 - 2014-04-21 22:45:01 UTC
Crazy Hooker wrote:
why do you need jump clones in empire......so you can go from Jita to Amarr in a flash?



Implants mostly.
Chaotix Morwen
Church Of BDSM
#44 - 2014-04-21 23:30:14 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
if u want another chance at a rebuttal, why don't u answer my questions from before? Why does a miner/trader/explorer need to grind through the mechanics of another career to get something that is useful to all professions?


Why does a miner need to fight npcs that spawn into his belt, why do indies need to get salvage from pvp and exploration? No profession can exist in a bubble, each one interacts with another. Also they do not NEED to do any form of pve, they can simply do it if they want a nice non essential bonus in the game.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
im not advocating a Push button->get JC


How is using a POS clone bay not an instant JC button, in a few months there will be no effort at all in setting up a small POS anywhere in HiSec.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
This goes doubly when u are both saying 'oh its so easy to get a JC' 'i grinded in a day, cause im amazing' so clearly its the current system that is favoring instant gratification types


We grinded standings in one day to get a JC for ONE corp, guess what singular corps dont cover all of Eve, standings grinding awards you bit by bit expanding your JC ability but if you want overall coverage its a long bit of work, hardly instant gratification.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
work together towards a goal? like u did when u grinded for a day to get ur personal standing up. Or maybe ur referring to joining someone elses corp for less than 24 hours to get a JC. great team effort there. Or was it when players join fleet, dock up and let others run missions for them. Roll No, attaching it to a POS or other player system encourages players working together more than a standings grind ever will


I often run missions with other players who would get absolutely destroyed in lvl 4s, we all share in the standings increase, and in my own corp we work together to get the corps standing up at a decent level. If that isnt teamwork then i know a lot less than i thought. How is one guy in a corp putting up a POS working together more than a mission running fleet?


Daichi Yamato wrote:
As if the saving grace for the rorqual would be its jump clones. seriously.


As stupid as it sounds...its all that ship has, might as well ditch the thing with POS replacing it, thats one thing i cant understand, why did CCP replace it with POS modules just as it looked like it had a chance of use with the compression changes.

ran out of quote/ there is a scarecrow factory's worth of strawman here lol. thats just freaking hilarious. 10/10 drama queen. If the speakers in ur car break, do u drive ur car off a cliff with similar sentiments to those ive quoted?

I would if its engine is broken (well more of a push) Your saying standing grinding is a broken mechanic, hows isk grinding any different...except for the whole getting isk straight away compared to standings reward after time, ah thats it the only difference is the isk grind has instant gratification.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#45 - 2014-04-22 00:06:25 UTC
Why are we even discussing this when there are much more important issues plaguing Eve? Like the asymmetric turret arrangement on a Machariel. C'mon OP, learn what's really important.
On a slightly more serious note, I would support changes to the JC standing mechanics. Between wormholes and incursions I would like to be able to swap out my implants to suit my play, but I'm not looking forward to grinding missions for a day or two instead of Incursioning or working in the WH. This is far from game breaking, and given that this is the forum I know that is an unpopular opinion with all the experts running around here.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2014-04-22 05:10:24 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
Now that CCP has made it clear that grinding personal or corporate standings for a specific empire faction is no longer needed for setting up POS in 0.5, 0.6 and 0.7 systems I propose the following to CCP:


Remove personal or corporate 8.0+ standing at a station to install jump clones, let everybody not be burdened by this grindingCool


It should be CCPgames policy to not allow lore (the history of the game) to influence the open world pvp gameplay negatively for new players and current capsuleers that want it easier.

I kind of disagree with you. I believe lore and history are more important than catering to any singular player segment ( "new pvpers" ) while I know that CCP did say they might be removing the need for corp standing to be a certain level for POS placement, I kind of also feel that removing this altogether might be a mistake. I believe at least the anchoring player should be required to have standing. As far as JC's go, you would cut out the middle men who provide valuable jump clone services to players without standing for reasonable prices. Don't squash opportunity in the sand box.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#47 - 2014-04-22 10:53:39 UTC
Chaotix Morwen wrote:

Why does a miner need to fight npcs that spawn into his belt, why do indies need to get salvage from pvp and exploration? No profession can exist in a bubble, each one interacts with another. Also they do not NEED to do any form of pve, they can simply do it if they want a nice non essential bonus in the game.


A miner does not need to fight NPC's, an indy does not need to make rigs. Ur right when u say no profession lives in a bubble. Ur wrong for thinking that the bubble MUST include NPC's though.

Chaotix Morwen wrote:
How is using a POS clone bay not an instant JC button, in a few months there will be no effort at all in setting up a small POS anywhere in HiSec.


Erecting and maintaining a POS requires work. The tower and the modules have to be built from scratch with PI, it must be fueled to work and it is open to attack from other players. No POS is built and erected in a day. Even when u buy the tower and mods, someone else put the work into building it and u pay for that work. Therefore its clear to anyone, that the work involved in a POS is much more than that of ur day long grind.

Chaotix Morwen wrote:

We grinded standings in one day to get a JC for ONE corp, guess what singular corps dont cover all of Eve, standings grinding awards you bit by bit expanding your JC ability but if you want overall coverage its a long bit of work, hardly instant gratification.
...
I often run missions with other players who would get absolutely destroyed in lvl 4s, we all share in the standings increase, and in my own corp we work together to get the corps standing up at a decent level. If that isnt teamwork then i know a lot less than i thought. How is one guy in a corp putting up a POS working together more than a mission running fleet?


Yes one corp. U only need the standings of one corp to install unlimited jump clones. And how is 1 guy running level 4's whilst 10ppl sit afk in fleet more work than several chars combining their PI to make a tower, modules and fuel to make their own JC base? see how i twisted things like u have?

Chaotix Morwen wrote:

As stupid as it sounds...its all that ship has, might as well ditch the thing with POS replacing it, thats one thing i cant understand, why did CCP replace it with POS modules just as it looked like it had a chance of use with the compression changes.


To which the answer is overhaul the Rorq, not block anything that shares a role with it.

Chaotix Morwen wrote:

I would if its engine is broken (well more of a push) Your saying standing grinding is a broken mechanic, hows isk grinding any different...except for the whole getting isk straight away compared to standings reward after time, ah thats it the only difference is the isk grind has instant gratification.


- JC's are not as vital to missions as an engine is to a car. Speakers are more appropriate as a comparison
- So the next time the engine light comes on u can make a video of u pushing ur car off a cliff rather than taking it to the garage and put it on youtube. K thanks.
- Grinding for isks is a way to make a living in the game. Not a ONE TIME thing. If there was a mechanic where once u had grinded to 1 billion isk everything became free and u no longer needed isk, id say that was a poor mechanic too.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#48 - 2014-04-22 11:04:10 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Yes one corp. U only need the standings of one corp to install unlimited jump clones. And how is 1 guy running level 4's whilst 10ppl sit afk in fleet more work than several chars combining their PI to make a tower, modules and fuel to make their own JC base? see how i twisted things like u have?


Except for they don't. The same 10 people who sat AFK in station or on a gate will also sit AFK in station or on a gate, while 1 guy does the PI to make their life easier. Sorry to disappoint you, but that's how it works in 98% of the cases. Blink

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#49 - 2014-04-22 11:09:02 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
. As far as JC's go, you would cut out the middle men who provide valuable jump clone services to players without standing for reasonable prices. Don't squash opportunity in the sand box.


the opportunity to do this would not be gone, it will just change.

players can still make a corp, set up a JC service and let others come into corp and buy JC's. The proposal adds far more opportunities than it removes.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#50 - 2014-04-22 11:10:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Yes one corp. U only need the standings of one corp to install unlimited jump clones. And how is 1 guy running level 4's whilst 10ppl sit afk in fleet more work than several chars combining their PI to make a tower, modules and fuel to make their own JC base? see how i twisted things like u have?


Except for they don't. The same 10 people who sat AFK in station or on a gate will also sit AFK in station or on a gate, while 1 guy does the PI to make their life easier. Sorry to disappoint you, but that's how it works in 98% of the cases. Blink


yeah, there are issues with both cases, and they are both twisted with bias. i was deliberately pointing that out.

edit- and when i say issues, i really mean there is a way for one person to do it alone if they are willing to put the time,money and effort in. and thats not really an issue/

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#51 - 2014-04-22 11:42:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Freelancer117
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Freelancer117 wrote:

It should be CCPgames policy to not allow lore (the history of the game) to influence the open world pvp gameplay negatively for new players and current capsuleers that want it easier.
As far as JC's go, you would cut out the middle men who provide valuable jump clone services to players without standing for reasonable prices. Don't squash opportunity in the sand box.


Sure, it is nice to see how the sandbox of eve generates new carreers which CCP has not thought up, because some players make a better version of a halfhearted iteration of a feature / mechanicCool


In this example, source: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Standings_mechanics#Standings_between_player_entities

You take the standing (without skills included) of each corporation member (towards the NPC entity in question) on an active subscribing account, add them all up and then divide by the number of members that have the standing already in their character sheet. In rare circumstances characters can have standing towards an entity that is not listed in their character sheet. Check by looking up the entity and then looking at the "Standings" tab. The ones who do not have a standing towards the entity are not taken into account. The standings will update to the average after every downtime.

It is also worth noting that members standings towards NPC corps do not begin to affect their global corp standing towards the relevant NPC corp until they have been a member of their current corp for at least 7 days.

This creates a career for the current players who put in their time and effort and gain income from it because they provide service.

However to CCP you could just be a small part of the community that uses a game feature / mechanic that was not intended that way, and because of the sandbox nature you used it for your own to create income.

But CCP's philosophy, read no more faction standing requirement for POS, could extend that philosophy easily to not exclude new players and current players who do not want to see their open world pvp gameplay negatively influenced when it concerns installing up to 10 Jump Clones in a large part of the game more easily or convenient, namely in all the 0.1-1.0 systems.

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

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Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-04-22 12:07:21 UTC
I just want to have my jump clones as regular items, just ship it to a station an leave it there.

Once used it's used, jumping to another clone without being in a station with med bay should destroy the clone you leave.

You could just stash a couple of jump clones around the universe in every station you like and it would even need some effort to maintain those "quick travel points" as you'd have to resupply your stations with new jump clones.

And then get rid of the 24h timer. I really hate that timer... -.-

Hooray for me, I got the best ideas. Cool

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Eurynome Mangeiri
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2014-04-22 13:01:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Eurynome Mangeiri
Freelancer117 wrote:
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
then what purpose would it serve? this is a bad idea, just another reason why not to do missions.


But what is CCP's reason to drop faction standing requirement for POS setup in 0.5, 0.6 and 0.7 systems then ?



the reason is simple.

in a +- recent update, they removed the ice belt, replacing them with those sigs.

also, the new ice faucet was only able to sustain 75% of the ice consumption.

following this update, ice price rose, and some POS were abandonned (unfueled / taken out).


now ffwd to next summer:

massive change to industry, meaning more ppl will use POS.
ice faucet still the same, so ice price will rise again.

to make it go faster, allow anyone to set up POS in highsec.

annouced goal, give everyone an opportunity to build stuff.

real goal: create inflation

more pos -> more fuel -> fuel more expansive since "limited" supply.

any business guy will make his customer pay for the extra costs, in our case, the fuel price and the new taxes.

the whole market will the see inflation.

including, you guess at this point, the PLEX.

and a more expansive PLEX means more $$ in CCP pocket

just check the fuel block price....


by dropping the standing requirement or POS, you make it so MORE POS will be onlined, thus making the whole process described above faster / wider
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#54 - 2014-04-22 13:05:25 UTC
hurray!

more money for me AND CCP

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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