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Remove 8.0+ standings to install Jump Clones

Author
Stein Backstabber
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2014-04-21 14:17:33 UTC
You only need one corp, ever. Really. I've got JCs dotted about the place and in only one do I have standings. Sure standings would be more convenient but...you know, it's not a huge deal.
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#22 - 2014-04-21 14:21:58 UTC
Crazy Hooker wrote:
why do you need jump clones in empire......so you can go from Jita to Amarr in a flash?

idea is worthless like the idea to allow the ability to put a pos without standings.


With the new industry changes CCP will come up, you will see that placing Jump Clones in empire (especially near losec gates) will be very usefull.

If you still want a nice profit margin by producing ships and items in hisec and losec empire (other then Null sec) you want to seek out systems that will not be busy and cost you an extra 14% in production costs.

With the latest addition of new cloning skills from CCP; Advanced Infomorph Psychology and Infomorph Synchronizing jumping around in empire (0.1-1.0) can be done in a flash.

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#23 - 2014-04-21 14:27:29 UTC
Stein Backstabber, how long did it take you to get 8.0+ standings with the npc corp to allow you to install Jump Clones ?

I see you only have 2 members in your corporation, this means the average standing for that one npc corp is done relatively "convenient".

CCP could make it so "convenient" that anyone can install Jump Clones in all of empire all the time without any difficulty Cool

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2014-04-21 15:15:26 UTC
If you want easy access to jump clones join a null sec corp that has access to an outpost. Problem solved. Don't expect everything to be easy in hisec. Something about risk and reward.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#25 - 2014-04-21 15:35:08 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
Please tell me, what are the many ways to get your jump clones in hisec without grinding any standings in 0.5-1.0 systems ?


Why do you think you're entitled to jump clones without putting ANY work in? You want some clones? Here's how to get them without grinding any standings yourself:

1. Join Estel Arador's Corp.
2. Join a corp with access to a nullsec outpost
3. Find a friend with (or someone willing to sell you the use of) a Rorqual/Mothership/Titan.
4. Pay someone to grind the standings for you.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#26 - 2014-04-21 15:57:28 UTC
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
then what purpose would it serve? this is a bad idea, just another reason why not to do missions.


why do players have to do missions? is there a reason having JC's should be inherently harder/more annoying for traders, PvP'ers, Miners and Explorers?

If the jumpclone standings mechanic is moved to another mechanic that requires work, time, isk etc etc, like say building and/or buying the clone bay and installing it in something. then thats fine. Entitlement has little to do with this idea.

what is a huge tedious bore is telling all ur noobs that the moment they join they have to grind standings to 8.0 so that ur corp can use JC's, even if they are miners with no skills, u tell them to sit in station and fleet up with other mission runners. Whats an annoying circumvention of the mechanic is telling ur noobs that they have to join other ppls corps for a second to get JC's and then come back to the corp they really want to be in.

OR, we could just swap the mechanic for something with more focus on players, that still requires work and time, rather than NPC buttkissing.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#27 - 2014-04-21 16:33:45 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
then what purpose would it serve? this is a bad idea, just another reason why not to do missions.


why do players have to do missions? is there a reason having JC's should be inherently harder/more annoying for traders, PvP'ers, Miners and Explorers?

If the jumpclone standings mechanic is moved to another mechanic that requires work, time, isk etc etc, like say building and/or buying the clone bay and installing it in something. then thats fine. Entitlement has little to do with this idea.

what is a huge tedious bore is telling all ur noobs that the moment they join they have to grind standings to 8.0 so that ur corp can use JC's, even if they are miners with no skills, u tell them to sit in station and fleet up with other mission runners. Whats an annoying circumvention of the mechanic is telling ur noobs that they have to join other ppls corps for a second to get JC's and then come back to the corp they really want to be in.

OR, we could just swap the mechanic for something with more focus on players, that still requires work and time, rather than NPC buttkissing.



Until a reasonable alternative is suggested it should stay as is. The general rule is that things should be accessible by the three primary currencies in Eve(Isk/Effort/Friends). Clones can be gotten by any of the three.
Chaotix Morwen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-04-21 17:18:39 UTC
It is quite easy to get your personal standings to an npc corp to 8+. I managed to get ammatar fleet up to 9 from 0 in one day easy as (yes i did data missions to get there faster...nothing stopping you from doing so). I dont understand why people have such a big issue with mission grinding, its a nice way to earn special privelages while making isk. So you feel we should get immediate access to everything in game because its bad to grind? Well lucky you, in your world you score a titan within a day...oh and isk has no value...seen as you dont need any form of grind to get it.

At the very least standings+missions gives hisec some different mechanics from nullsec...unlike some people i dont want everything in this game to be all the same.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#29 - 2014-04-21 17:21:42 UTC
Chaotix Morwen wrote:
It is quite easy to get your personal standings to an npc corp to 8+. I managed to get ammatar fleet up to 9 from 0 in one day easy as (yes i did data missions to get there faster...nothing stopping you from doing so). I dont understand why people have such a big issue with mission grinding, its a nice way to earn special privelages while making isk. So you feel we should get immediate access to everything in game because its bad to grind? Well lucky you, in your world you score a titan within a day...oh and isk has no value...seen as you dont need any form of grind to get it.

At the very least standings+missions gives hisec some different mechanics from nullsec...unlike some people i dont want everything in this game to be all the same.


But no, you are doing it wrong! It's evil NPC grind and lots of work for too little gains! You need to have everything easier, faster and readier so that you can start right away with the game you want to lose at. Doing missions to do PVP in different places? How dare CCP stick to that mechanic! You only need to do PVP and get all the tools for PVP ready without any other part or mechanic of EVE involved! Have you got the message now?

Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#30 - 2014-04-21 17:22:12 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
if they made it more of a player corp service then definitely.


Adding the Rorqual clone bay onto a POS? Works for me!

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#31 - 2014-04-21 19:19:00 UTC
@ Chaotix Morwen and Rivr Luzade;

To install Jump Clones in 0.5-1.0 system across empire space requires perhaps to much time and effort to a larger part of the community, and CCP could opt for a more static gameplay where new players and the current playerbase who like it to be easier just push-button-receive-baconCool

By removing faction standing requirements to anchor POS in empire, CCP shows a willingness towards this philosophy.

Especially when it impedes the open world pvp gameplay to a larger part of the community, Jump Clones will be easier accessible across space.

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#32 - 2014-04-21 19:31:10 UTC
can either of u tell me why the PvE grind is a good mechanic and should stay?

i dnt give two ***** about 'its not that hard' or 'just join another corp for a day'. u tell me why its not a pants on head mechanic that wouldnt be better replaced by something driven by players.

even a POS module that takes organic matter as fuel per clone would be better.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#33 - 2014-04-21 19:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Daichi Yamato wrote:
can either of u tell me why the PvE grind is a good mechanic and should stay?

i dnt give two ***** about 'its not that hard' or 'just join another corp for a day'. u tell me why its not a pants on head mechanic that wouldnt be better replaced by something driven by players.

even a POS module that takes organic matter as fuel per clone would be better.


Because everything that is playerdriven is going to be abused and exploited. Because clone bays belong to NPC Factions in Empire and if you want to dump your lump of meat in their bays, you do what they want you to do. Because Some grind does not hurt. Because you also see other things from the game than just exploding ships. Because you also realize that it takes effort to gain something.

Shall I continue?

I don't give a damn about what you think; if you don't like it, join 00 sec and you get your JCs with no effort. Actually, having this 8.0 Standing Requirement is a driving force to push players out of High sec. If you take that away, more people stay in high sec and CCP continues with its chaotic plan to introduce changes to push people out of High sec and make them stay in High sec at the same time. That's just dense.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Chaotix Morwen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-04-21 20:25:54 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
can either of u tell me why the PvE grind is a good mechanic and should stay?

i dnt give two ***** about 'its not that hard' or 'just join another corp for a day'. u tell me why its not a pants on head mechanic that wouldnt be better replaced by something driven by players.

even a POS module that takes organic matter as fuel per clone would be better.


The PVE grind is a good mechanic because it makes players actually put effort into achieving a goal whether it is(was) to put up a POS, get jumpclones or get reduced market taxes. Additionally it gets them a chance to work together towards a common goal for overall corp standings. What advantage would there be in an entirely player run mechanism? At least PVE based mechanisms is something unique to HiSec, maybe not the best system ever, but better than one press instant gratification you seem to be looking for.

Btw whats the point of Rorquals if we start using POS for jumpclones...theyve already lost their compression advantage.

If PVE grinds are such a terrible thing then we should completely remove mission income, NPC bounties and loyalty points...making isk from PVE is a grind too.
Marsha Mallow
#35 - 2014-04-21 20:59:07 UTC
What about a tag mechanic? You can turn in tags to improve sec or run the datacentre missions for faction standings. Maybe a similar scheme for specific corporation standings. There's no reason for newer players to be priced out of a mechanic like this either, the tags could drop on regular missions.

This just looks like a bit of a rant regarding the removal of standings for POS though rather than a proper suggestion. Going forward they can either gradually remove the relevance of standings or find some new, meaningful rewards to attach to them. I'd prefer the latter really.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#36 - 2014-04-21 21:04:16 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
What about a tag mechanic? You can turn in tags to improve sec or run the datacentre missions for faction standings. Maybe a similar scheme for specific corporation standings. There's no reason for newer players to be priced out of a mechanic like this either, the tags could drop on regular missions.

This just looks like a bit of a rant regarding the removal of standings for POS though rather than a proper suggestion. Going forward they can either gradually remove the relevance of standings or find some new, meaningful rewards to attach to them. I'd prefer the latter really.


Makes it way to easy and if it is cheap it's even easier.

And what meaningful rewards can you couple to standings, if you are not supposed to be in High sec to begin with? (You don't need standings for clones in Low sec as you have Rorqus and Titans.)

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#37 - 2014-04-21 21:18:28 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
can either of u tell me why the PvE grind is a good mechanic and should stay?

i dnt give two ***** about 'its not that hard' or 'just join another corp for a day'. u tell me why its not a pants on head mechanic that wouldnt be better replaced by something driven by players.

even a POS module that takes organic matter as fuel per clone would be better.


Because everything that is playerdriven is going to be abused and exploited. Because clone bays belong to NPC Factions in Empire and if you want to dump your lump of meat in their bays, you do what they want you to do. Because Some grind does not hurt. Because you also see other things from the game than just exploding ships. Because you also realize that it takes effort to gain something.

Shall I continue?

I don't give a damn about what you think; if you don't like it, join 00 sec and you get your JCs with no effort. Actually, having this 8.0 Standing Requirement is a driving force to push players out of High sec. If you take that away, more people stay in high sec and CCP continues with its chaotic plan to introduce changes to push people out of High sec and make them stay in High sec at the same time. That's just dense.


none of those reasons hold water. everything player driven is exploited? Roll clone bays belong to players as well Roll the 8.0 standing doesnt drive anyone anywhere, players use other corps or just grind standings Roll some grind doesnt hurt, big whoop, it does f-all to add to the game either Roll changing the mechanic doesnt remove effort Roll

should i go on?

Quote:

The PVE grind is a good mechanic because it makes players actually put effort into achieving a goal whether it is(was) to put up a POS, get jumpclones or get reduced market taxes. Additionally it gets them a chance to work together towards a common goal for overall corp standings. What advantage would there be in an entirely player run mechanism? At least PVE based mechanisms is something unique to HiSec, maybe not the best system ever, but better than one press instant gratification you seem to be looking for.

Btw whats the point of Rorquals if we start using POS for jumpclones...theyve already lost their compression advantage.



yeah, also no sense here.

changing the mechanic to something else does not remove effort when u dnt even know what the replacement mechanic will be. thats just silly Roll. im not advocating a Push button->get JC. and suggesting i am is a strawman argument. This goes doubly when u are both saying 'oh its so easy to get a JC' 'i grinded in a day, cause im amazing' so clearly its the current system that is favoring instant gratification types.

work together towards a goal? like u did when u grinded for a day to get ur personal standing up. Or maybe ur referring to joining someone elses corp for less than 24 hours to get a JC. great team effort there. Or was it when players join fleet, dock up and let others run missions for them. Roll No, attaching it to a POS or other player system encourages players working together more than a standings grind ever will.

at no point did i ask for an effortless instant gratification system. Learn2read. ur whine at the rorqual isnt a good point either. There is no good position in arguing that it may make an already broken and barely used ship even more broken and unused. i mean come on! As if the saving grace for the rorqual would be its jump clones. seriously.

Quote:
If PVE grinds are such a terrible thing then we should completely remove mission income, NPC bounties and loyalty points...making isk from PVE is a grind too.


there is a scarecrow factory's worth of strawman here lol. thats just freaking hilarious. 10/10 drama queen. If the speakers in ur car break, do u drive ur car off a cliff with similar sentiments to those ive quoted? LolLolLolLolLol

the arguments provided actually help show that there really is no good reason to tie it to a standings grind beyond the ones originally stated by CCP, which was that its purposefully meant for null-seccers. if u want another chance at a rebuttal, why don't u answer my questions from before? Why does a miner/trader/explorer need to grind through the mechanics of another career to get something that is useful to all professions?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Marsha Mallow
#38 - 2014-04-21 21:23:11 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Makes it way to easy and if it is cheap it's even easier.

So?

Rivr Luzade wrote:
And what meaningful rewards can you couple to standings, if you are not supposed to be in High sec to begin with? (You don't need standings for clones in Low sec as you have Rorqus and Titans.)

I'd like to see docking rights in NPC stations tied to corp standings, sentry guns shoot players they don't like, scalable installation fees & access to station services. Maybe if they really hate you NPC corps might send out NPC bounty hunters to come kill you too. No, I'm not joking. It'd be hilarious.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#39 - 2014-04-21 21:28:27 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Makes it way to easy and if it is cheap it's even easier.

So?

Rivr Luzade wrote:
And what meaningful rewards can you couple to standings, if you are not supposed to be in High sec to begin with? (You don't need standings for clones in Low sec as you have Rorqus and Titans.)

I'd like to see docking rights in NPC stations tied to corp standings, sentry guns shoot players they don't like, scalable installation fees & access to station services. Maybe if they really hate you NPC corps might send out NPC bounty hunters to come kill you too. No, I'm not joking. It'd be hilarious.



On the "So" part: EVE has already gotten a lot easier over the years, this doesn't need to be removed to make it even easier.

On the other parts: Apart form the NPC Bounty Hunters (which are likely going to cause you a nice flame flood), I like those suggestions. Iirc Guns already shoot people, who are in opposing FW factions, and if you are below -5 Faction standing, you get hunted by NPC police forces. And that is what this suggestion, as an example, wants to remove. Blink

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#40 - 2014-04-21 21:36:39 UTC
Quote:
What advantage would there be in an entirely player run mechanism?


-That no matter what u do as a profession, its not any easier or harder to get JC's
- U dnt have to corp hop to get JC's. ur corp provides for u if they have the equipment
- The service is buildable, destroyable, costs money, resources, takes time
- that NPC's and PvE are not directly involved. as CCP will tell u, the less NPC involvement the better.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

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