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Second type of logistic ship: The E-war Logistic Ship
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Akkaata Shiyurida
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-04-17 17:49:06 UTC
First off: I´m a quite new player and I don´t have my Logi yet but I´ve been watching all kinds of EVE tournaments and larger battles for some years now and I started wondering why nobody ever uses Tracking links. The only things I ever saw were capacitor transfers.

I then generally thought about those second logistic functions a bit. I mean why do Caldari have capacitor transfer bonuses when they are mostly passive shield tanked (correct me if I´m wrong)? A better range also does nothing special when both Minmatar and Gallente usually rush straight in?

Would it be not better if every faction had one logistic ship with bonuses to those secondary thing that fit to their faction and remote counter measures against their enemies e-war? The regular logistic ship could get bonuses to a new kind of module instead as second bonus: Resistance transfers or remote hardeners(not my idea, it´s from a guy on the dust forums)

Guardians and Basilisks would get better bonuses to resistance transfers, Oneiroses (the correct plural?) and Scimitars would get better bonuses to remote repairers/boosters. This would be because Amarr and Caldari get resistance bonuses while Gallente and Minmatar get repair/boost bonuses on most of their other ships.

The E-war logistics ship would generally feature a remote counter to the opposing factions e-war as well as a remote bonus to an attribute the faction specializes on.

Amarr: Remote Signature Dampener (new module) bonuses and Energy transfer bonuses
Caldari: Remote Sensor Boost bonuses, Tracking Link bonuses and Ballistic Link (new module) bonuses
Gallente: Remote ECCM bonuses and Remote Inertia Dampener (new module) bonuses
Minmatar: Tracking Link bonuses and Remote Propulsion Computer (new module) bonuses

Explanation for the new modules:
(Remote) Signature Dampener: They decrease the signature radius of the ship
Ballistic Link/ (Remote) Ballistic Computer: Like Tracking Links but for Missiles. Increase either the speed or the tracking of the missiles or both without scripts.
Remote Inertia Dampener: Decrease the Inertia modifier of the ship and thus increase it´s agility.

What do you think about it?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2014-04-17 18:15:21 UTC
We already have these ships. They are called Command Ships and Tech 3 Command Cruisers.

They use Warfare Links to buff various stats** of all ships within a fleet.


**You have 4 types of links...
- Armor Warfare: increases armor resistances, armor HP amounts, and reduces capacitor consumption for armor reppers and remote reppers
- Siege Warfare: increases shield resistances, shield HP amounts, and reduces capacitor consumption for shield reppers and remote reppers
- Skirmish Warfare: increases speed, agility, propulsion jamming range, and reduces the "sensor footprint" of ship (to make them harder to hit)
- Information Warfare: Increases range and strength of ship sensors and Electronic Warfare.

How did you Veterans start?
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#3 - 2014-04-17 18:20:22 UTC
In a general sort of way this already exists.

There are 4 main flavors of ewar: ECM, Tracking Disruption, Signal Dampening, and Target Painting.

They can be offset in part by Warfare Links from Command Ships. Information Warfare can boost lock range and make ECM harder to apply, while Skirmish Links can reduce the signature of a ship and thus counteract target painting.

Remote sensor boosters also work to directly counter the effects of sensor dampeners, while remote tracking links offset tracking disruptors.

There isnt much you can do about your own signature with local fitting, but you can fit tracking computers, tracking enhancers, sensor boosters, and backup sensor arrays to offset ewar effects.

In general the Logistics ships have bonuses to offset the needs of their racial warships, thus Gallente get tracking link bonuses to help with the extreme close range of blasters, and Amarr get cap transfer array bonuses to help fuel their laser ships.
Akkaata Shiyurida
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-04-17 19:02:17 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
In a general sort of way this already exists.

There are 4 main flavors of ewar: ECM, Tracking Disruption, Signal Dampening, and Target Painting.

They can be offset in part by Warfare Links from Command Ships. Information Warfare can boost lock range and make ECM harder to apply, while Skirmish Links can reduce the signature of a ship and thus counteract target painting.

Remote sensor boosters also work to directly counter the effects of sensor dampeners, while remote tracking links offset tracking disruptors.

There isnt much you can do about your own signature with local fitting, but you can fit tracking computers, tracking enhancers, sensor boosters, and backup sensor arrays to offset ewar effects.

In general the Logistics ships have bonuses to offset the needs of their racial warships, thus Gallente get tracking link bonuses to help with the extreme close range of blasters, and Amarr get cap transfer array bonuses to help fuel their laser ships.


Yes, they exist but they all work on a larger size so they are not that useful for small scales. I mean how many small fleets have a Command Ship pilot that has good enough skills to really counter an e-war ship? I don´t know what´s the maximum bonus you can get from a command ship but I doubt that it´s that strong.
The e-war logi would simply be a direct counter against e-war.

I also doubt that many command ship pilots fly with information and skirmish warfare links, most will fly with Armor and Siege war
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#5 - 2014-04-17 19:05:43 UTC
I honestly think it's a neat idea. I'd like to see a ship with a remote tracking bonus.

The problem is see is that other than remote sensor boosting / tracking - there isn't much else that I'd really want as a boost.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#6 - 2014-04-17 20:19:33 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
I honestly think it's a neat idea. I'd like to see a ship with a remote tracking bonus.

The problem is see is that other than remote sensor boosting / tracking - there isn't much else that I'd really want as a boost.


Remote tracking is on the Onerios.

Off hand, other handy to boost stats would be agility, resistance to things other than direct damage, auxillary target data to allow weapons to fire at a designated target even when affected by ECM, and practically anything that hulls boost would make decent remote assisted stats as well.

I dont disagree. I personally think the electronic warfare ships should include bonuses both for disruption and fleet support of thier fields. I dont know all of that class, but for instance the Gallente ships should bonus both sensor dampening and sensor boosting, Amarr shoulx boost tracking disruption/enhancement, etc...

This does break down somewhat as there is no direct counter to effects like Target Painting, nor is there any kind of resistance to web effects or Cap drain/transfer (well, batteries for cap warfare), though perhaps there should be.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#7 - 2014-04-17 20:27:07 UTC
Akkaata Shiyurida wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
In a general sort of way this already exists.

There are 4 main flavors of ewar: ECM, Tracking Disruption, Signal Dampening, and Target Painting.

They can be offset in part by Warfare Links from Command Ships. Information Warfare can boost lock range and make ECM harder to apply, while Skirmish Links can reduce the signature of a ship and thus counteract target painting.

Remote sensor boosters also work to directly counter the effects of sensor dampeners, while remote tracking links offset tracking disruptors.

There isnt much you can do about your own signature with local fitting, but you can fit tracking computers, tracking enhancers, sensor boosters, and backup sensor arrays to offset ewar effects.

In general the Logistics ships have bonuses to offset the needs of their racial warships, thus Gallente get tracking link bonuses to help with the extreme close range of blasters, and Amarr get cap transfer array bonuses to help fuel their laser ships.


Yes, they exist but they all work on a larger size so they are not that useful for small scales. I mean how many small fleets have a Command Ship pilot that has good enough skills to really counter an e-war ship? I don´t know what´s the maximum bonus you can get from a command ship but I doubt that it´s that strong.
The e-war logi would simply be a direct counter against e-war.

I also doubt that many command ship pilots fly with information and skirmish warfare links, most will fly with Armor and Siege war


Ack, no. Information may not be as used, but skirmish gets used quite a bit. You can use skirmish links to get crazy range on tackle, especially with the Gallente recons(? Arazu, Lachesis I think?). Armor and skirmish can synergise pretty well, as a frigate hopped up on armor resist, shrunk sig and Afterburner boost gets annoying fast--with coprocessors adding the local armor boosts can make things like the incursus even more annoying.

Information warfare is a bit more aggressive, adding as it does to most forms of offensive ewar. If not for the general effectiveness of these systems already, especially on the hulls specialized for them, you would see this more.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#8 - 2014-04-17 21:51:23 UTC
I posted the idea of e-defense frigs a while back, but the idea never took off, I think it could also work as cruisers though....,
caldari get rSeBo's
minmatar get tracking links and cap boost?
amarr get sig reduction and remote velocity modifiers??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
gallente get ECCM

maybe - we add extra role bonuses to current logi......
caldari and amarr get:
(current) cap boost
(current) rep boost
(new) rSeBo boost

gallente and minmatar get:
(current) tracking link boost
(current) rep boost
(new) rECCM boost

adds more meaningful choices to fitting in small gang, though I imagine large gangs (blobs) will still be fairly standardised within their set roles

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Akkaata Shiyurida
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-04-17 21:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Akkaata Shiyurida
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
I honestly think it's a neat idea. I'd like to see a ship with a remote tracking bonus.

The problem is see is that other than remote sensor boosting / tracking - there isn't much else that I'd really want as a boost.


Remote tracking is on the Onerios.

Off hand, other handy to boost stats would be agility, resistance to things other than direct damage, auxillary target data to allow weapons to fire at a designated target even when affected by ECM, and practically anything that hulls boost would make decent remote assisted stats as well.

I dont disagree. I personally think the electronic warfare ships should include bonuses both for disruption and fleet support of thier fields. I dont know all of that class, but for instance the Gallente ships should bonus both sensor dampening and sensor boosting, Amarr shoulx boost tracking disruption/enhancement, etc...

This does break down somewhat as there is no direct counter to effects like Target Painting, nor is there any kind of resistance to web effects or Cap drain/transfer (well, batteries for cap warfare), though perhaps there should be.


That´s pretty much what I meant. There are no ships specialized to counter e-war except warfare links. The only difference would be that I put it on a Logistics frame as it would be a kind of logistic. The original logistic would give up its bonus to capacitor warfare and tracking links in favor of a armor/shield bonus.