EVE Information Portal

Changed and removed are two different things.

Actually Tippia that isn't true.

Even if we assume a copy time of 1:1 T2 BPO's will make higher profit than currently since they will gain a significant material bonus due to extra materials becoming base materials now. Meaning higher discount in materials relative to invention compared to currently.

However in the case of a 1:1 ratio this will mean that they still can't compete with volume... but...
CCP have said they intend to make the copy time LESS than the manufacture time.
Meaning that anything better than a 1:1 ratio will eventually mean that a T2 BPO holder can now run multiple lines full time instead of just 1 line. Exactly how many lines dependant on that ratio. It will take a bit of time for their copy process to get themselves there, but it will increase the amount of production a T2 BPO holder can make, while also increasing their profit per item. Meaning the market share a T2 BPO can hold will have increased significantly.

As such, it is entirely reasonable to want the T2 BPO situation addressed. There are no good reasons other than grandfathering to maintain T2 BPO's, and Grandfathering in a sandbox game is a terrible thing, because it breaks the sand box by giving an advantage that can't be created by a new player. Sure they can buy one if it's non profitable from someone else, but they can't make their own to compete with someone who is actually utilising it. Meaning when it comes to industry, T2 BPO's actually break the sandbox.

Well that clearly isn't true. At least think about what you post.

Apologies if this has been asked (or even answered) earlier in the thread. Now that slots are going away, that essentially means that there will be unlimited research slots in selected high sec stations. These slots used to be so massively oversubscribed that it was all but impossible to use them. Indeed, this situation was one of the things that pushed me out of my high sec comfort zone and into more dangerous places.

Maybe the answer will come in the "costs" dev blog later on, and there simply aren't any details yet, but I'm struggling to picture anything -- anything at all -- that would push research out of the perfect safety of NPC high sec stations once the slots and waiting times go away. Researched BPOs are by far the most valuable asset in the game to any industrialist. A dead Titan is an expensive setback, but you can always build another one. A lost BPO, on the other hand, will not only have to be repurchased, but can take months of research before it's usable for production.

I only took any BPOs out of high sec because it was so difficult (or even impossible) to research and copy them there. It will take a massively huge enormous cost differential to justify risking them outside of their safe little cocoons in high sec. I'm very anxious to see how this develops.

But enough negativity! It's great to see the long-promised industrial expansion take shape. With this many changes, nobody is going to agree with every change. It may even be amazing if I end up agreeing with the majority of them. But we've needed changes for a very long time, and I'm very appreciative to see CCP make the effort.

In regard to the offline POS thing, instead of only allowing one POS per moon, maybe allow 5 POSes; to be anchored at the moon's 5 Lagrange Points.

That would be 5 POSes per moon. And if they are moon mining, maybe split the resulting material between the five, rounding up.

So having multiple POSes for moon mining will only decrease their efficiency but allow for other industrial activities to take place.

Except that is fail maths. Because it's not the most efficient method post patch. Even if we take your 'almost identical time'.
What actually happens is you run one line on the copies, then a second line gets run every time that 8 minute saving loops into 2 hours. Making for.... Hey, wouldn't you know it. 2 Hours/Unit. Hey presto. Higher market share.

Now if you are right and the copy time is barely different, it won't change the market share 'much', However that 'much' will still be enough in several edge cases to tip the market on smaller volume items relative to the number of T2 BPO's out there.

And to whoever it was trying to claim 'Something to aspire to' T2 BPO's are not something to aspire to, because you can not make them new. Buying someone's cast off means either you got ripped off and paid enough for them to part with something profitable, in which case you paid far too much isk i.e. scam, or it was a basically non profitable T2 BPO, and you paid too much isk, i.e. scam. Aspiring to things implies you can actually achieve them new, not hand me downs of a poorly grandfathered item.

Sure. I'm talking about a single run, mainly to illustrate the point, and you're showing what happens if you keep running on repeat — the previous run's copies are absorbed into the time the second run is being copied.

The point is still the same: the goal is not to increase production output — it's to counter delays in the copy+produce cycle. That difference is so small as to make pretty much no difference in the overall supply for these high-volume items, and it will still be the inventors that control the market. The BPO holders still can't compete on volume because their volumes will be pretty much the same (not to mention that inventors benefit from the copying speed increase as well and can adjust to the market trends faster than ever before).


Oh, and with the current material reqs, that BPO holder also have to eat an additional 144k ISK cost on each run. Poor thing.

Yes, slots are being removed on everything, however, cost scaling will still be applicable to Starbases as well. Please wait for the appropriate blog for more details.

?

That will probably be part of the UI changes.