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Dev blog: Building better Worlds

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Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
#301 - 2014-04-15 17:57:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Imiarr Timshae wrote:
I'm sure my friend who runs a R&D business will consider leaving since it is his primary income and now it's not a thing anymore. I'm not going anywhere Blink
But his primary income source is still a thing.

So far, contrary to all the doomsaying, the only profession that gets a slight kick in the nuts is corp-with-POS-standings creators. vOv


So you're saying when you can install essentially limitless ME/PE jobs just by travelling there will still be demand for people who research for you?

Currently the R&D industry is

1. We want research done
2. We don't want to have to wait for station slots
3. We will pay you for this research.

So now station slots are abundant so he won't get paid to do people's research. The end. Even then, a premium on that is that finding a POS spot that is desirable is difficult. No longer. They'll either be so abundant because you can anchor anywhere or the larger alliances such as Red Vs Blue will do a customs office on moons as well.

Personal Standings Services - Free 3rd Party & Collateral Holding Service - 7+ Day Old Corps for Highsec POS Sales
Sigras
Conglomo
#302 - 2014-04-15 17:57:38 UTC
Can we please have additional skills added to industry such as this suggestion

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4432508

It seems strange that I can train to fly ships for years, but if I want to put training time into industry I'm done in a month.
gifter Penken
State War Academy
Caldari State
#303 - 2014-04-15 17:58:35 UTC
Thead Enco wrote:
Seriousrly who in their right mind puts billons worth of BPO's at a ******* POS? and with the standings change to anchoring people have been crying for a change since forever, Now CCP makes is easier so you dont have to rescue "The Damsel" 1,000,000th time and people stll *****?


If you were running missions for the every 16th mission "story line" for faction standing, then you were doing faction standing ALL wrong. You can have 7.0-8.0 in about a week doing tutorials, SoE, tags and COSMOS.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#304 - 2014-04-15 17:58:39 UTC
Khoul Ay'd wrote:

CCP, you do remember that you never ice mining for the email operators a few expansions ago, right?

You wanna try that sentence again?

Ice prices will go up. So will the cost of things associated with it. This is not a bad thing.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Allison A'vani
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#305 - 2014-04-15 17:59:29 UTC
Enteron Anabente wrote:

I've done the calculations myself and decided not to buy any T2 BPOs anytime soon, so I'm well aware what the income from owning one is. I'm still opposed to making them more profitable and pushing out people doing invention.


At the moment, almost no t2 ships make any profit from invention, recently I saw someone on the industry forums come back to the game who was asking how much their Vulture BPO was worth...
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#306 - 2014-04-15 17:59:39 UTC
Nathan Natinde wrote:
I have a large POS, only one other guy has access, (and then only because I know him in RL because 'EVE') I already have billions in assembly arrays and labs at risk

The only thing that makes my industry experience bearable is that I can keep HUNDREDS of (Non stackable) T2 BPC's, Ship / Module / Component BPO's in ONE corp hanger in a station and set the jobs going on multiple characters from there. (Maxed out builder gets a whole 11 slots of each and you do not get EVE rich making T2 on one character))

So now I have to split all the blueprints up as well, have all my characters log in out at the POS and memorize which pesky array or lab I left each in. Or swallow hefty fees that apparently will make losses.

All this would be fine if I made one or 2 items, but to make ISK in EVE without a T2 BPO you should to be flexible and ready to make practically any item. I don't mind the risks, or particularly having to make more things at the POS (as long as the awful drawbacks on T2 ship arrays go away) but honestly I don't need industry to be more complicated for Blueprints.



did you miss this line?

"Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials."

You just need to store them at the pos, you don;t need to be at the pos, you cna keep them in one hanger that only you and your alts have access too.. so not much really changed.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#307 - 2014-04-15 17:59:43 UTC
Knug LiDi wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Knug LiDi wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
This may be in the cost scaling blog, but will the 0-14% cost increase be reflected in the UI in some way, or will we have to learn this from our spreadsheets?


The new UI will show you the accurate price before you actually install the job.


That's nice - BUT - I want to know this cost BEFORE I transport materials to a particular station. I.e. the cost amount need to be reflected in the information about that station. And, of course, it is dynamic.

This is necessary. Trial and error trying to find cheap manufacturing while carrying materials is stupid. If the rate is dynamic, it needs to be on the equivalent of a market, so players have the intel to decide how far/how much. Doing this while carrying good is idiotic. Flying to 50 stations to determine a value that may change before I get back is wrong. Let me view the local 'market' for manufacturing just like a can examine the market for ore. Then I will make market decisions


You will be able to request a quote from a station before a) going there b) moving materials and even c) purchasing the blueprint.



Singular quote system will be very slow. Can we not have a region-wide response to the same query? These values should be calculated (daily?) and stored for recall. This could be similar to the contract market. Give me a table of choices ! Just like shopping for mission agents.


You will also get a list of locations you can install the job in the region with a way to compare their relative pricing.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#308 - 2014-04-15 17:59:43 UTC
this is an aspect of the game i have no real experiance with but i must say good job guys!!!

I am sure my firends who do make stuff will be overjoyed!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
#309 - 2014-04-15 18:00:07 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Can we please have additional skills added to industry such as this suggestion

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4432508

It seems strange that I can train to fly ships for years, but if I want to put training time into industry I'm done in a month.


Pressing the "start job" button on the machine doesn't require as much skill as flying a spaceship by yourself :P

╦......║...╔╗.║.║.╔╗.╦║.╔╗╔╦╗╔╗

║.╔╗╔╗╔╣.╔╗╠..╠ ╠╗╠╝.║╠ ╠╝║║║╚╗

╩═╚╝║.╚╝.╚╝║..╚╝║║╚╝.╩╚╝╚╝║.║╚╝

Got Item?
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight
Diplomatic Incidents.
#310 - 2014-04-15 18:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Adellle Nadair
Sturmwolke wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
As such, all materials currently listed as Extra Materials will become regular materials instead


What's the scope for the removal of Extra Materials? All T1, T2 blueprints?
If this affects T2 BPO, you do realize that this gives the edge back to the BPO holders vs inventions in terms of materials savings.

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.

We are aware of the significance of this change and do not expect very expensive blueprints (Battleship and above) to be risked in such a manner, but we do feel it to be a good trade-off for smaller blueprints.


This is a d_ick move tbh. Focus on the process. It makes research and the copy industry much more tedious as you have to keep moving your BPOs in/out of the station. Scale that to hundreds of different BPOs/BPCs and several POSes, it becomes a nightmare. Instead of improving, you're devolving it into something far worse. This is an inane change, imo.

For capital production, copy process for things like ship packs or components copy will be made difficult for small/medium enterprises that run on small or medium POSes. You are effectively asking them to commit billions into a target. With the wardec mechanics giving less than 24 hrs to react, EVE becomes your second work place. You're changing the scenery from "casual" to logging everyday and checking for wardecks. God forbid if you have a RL situation which prevents you from taking the necessary actions. This move will definitely thin out the semi-casual industrialists. So you're happy kicking out the casual players?

And what exactly do you mean by "do not expect very expensive blueprints (Battleship and above) to be risked in such a manner"?


Didn't you know that CCP has decided to remove all casual playing elements from Eve? They only expect the complete and total dedication of our lives...
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#311 - 2014-04-15 18:00:36 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
We've been dying to talk about these changes and can't wait for your feedback.


You are kidding right?
Feedback?
This stuff is set in reinforced concrete.
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
#312 - 2014-04-15 18:00:43 UTC
Khoul Ay'd wrote:


++ Where are all of the ice products coming from to feed all of the coming 0.8 - 1.0 poses that will go up. CCP, you do remember that you nerfed ice mining for the email operators a few expansions ago, right?


Dude, you're fine. Do what you did to customs offices. Go around and take all the moons because there's no restriction on doing so and then sell them. They just removed the only thing stopping overwhelming numbers from owning every highsec moon.

Personal Standings Services - Free 3rd Party & Collateral Holding Service - 7+ Day Old Corps for Highsec POS Sales
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#313 - 2014-04-15 18:01:42 UTC
Removal of all Extra materials: Doesn't this mean that Tech 2 ships at ME -6, -5, -4 (Augmentation, Attainment and no decryptor) will use 2 T1 hulls, since it being an Extra material was what kept it at 1?

So a Sin would use 2 Dominix hulls with those three invention choices.

At ME -3 and above it rounds back down to 1 T1 hull.

--
Saeth Thara
Blue Printers Cooperative
#314 - 2014-04-15 18:02:49 UTC
I also feel the change to require the BPO to be in the POS is a bad idea, and would rather it remained in its current form (as it's not really broken as far as I can see). At the moment my pos, including mods, contents of labs etc is worth around 3B. This amount of isk is not insignificant to me, but would be a loss I could bear. After this change if I just wanted to keep my current production going I would need to have almost 27B at the POS, which is not something I could afford to risk losing.

The proposed improvement to the labs would have to be huge in my eyes to balance out the extra leg work and risk involved in moving a large number of bpos to the pos .

In addition I can't always get online everyday and the same is true of many of the people I play with, and as such if my corp was war dec'd it would be entirely possible for the pos to be shot down before anyone got online to empty it out. In light of the fact you are giving people a much bigger reason to attack a pos are you planning to make any changes to reinforce mechanics and/or the attributes of pos in order to help balance the risk to reward?

If you really are hell bent on making changes to this particular mechanic are there any other options you might consider? Perhaps adding a pos mod that allows the bpo to remain in a station – which would then mean less fitting for labs? Or adding a scaling system whereby the closer to the pos the bpo is the faster it researches (so max speed if its in the pos, then getting slower if in the same system but in a station/different pos)?

Aside from this most of the other changes look interesting and make sense to me, but I would also be interested, as others are, to hear what if any plans you have for standings and the benefits derived from them, as you are removing one of the main reasons people have worked on them in the past.
Knug LiDi
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#315 - 2014-04-15 18:03:28 UTC
Quote:


You will be able to request a quote from a station before a) going there b) moving materials and even c) purchasing the blueprint.



Singular quote system will be very slow. Can we not have a region-wide response to the same query? These values should be calculated (daily?) and stored for recall. This could be similar to the contract market. Give me a table of choices ! Just like shopping for mission agents.[/quote]

You will also get a list of locations you can install the job in the region with a way to compare their relative pricing.[/quote]

So basically, we can get a relative cost comparison in a region, but for accurate information a singular quote is needed. Well, its not ideal, but at least there is some comparative information.

If only we could fall into a woman's arms

without falling into her hands
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#316 - 2014-04-15 18:03:40 UTC
Khoul Ay'd wrote:
Additional mini-professions killed:

- corp/faction standings boosters (mission runners)
- corp creation services
- research corps (indy fee for service)
- moon holding/pos planting
Three of those are the same and have already been mentioned in Imiarr's post. The fourth is still viable albeit in a different form.

Imiarr Timshae wrote:
So you're saying when you can install essentially limitless ME/PE jobs just by travelling there will still be demand for people who research for you?

Currently the R&D industry is

1. We want research done
2. We don't want to have to wait for station slots
3. We will pay you for this research.
This will change to:
1. We want research done
2. We don't want to pay the exorbitant fee or hunt around for cheap systems.
3. We will pay you for this research at a less exorbitant fee.

Oh, and ye olde business of just selling researched blueprints — especially given all the complaints you're seeing that people don't want to risk moving their BPOs around.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#317 - 2014-04-15 18:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Allison A'vani wrote:
At the moment, almost no t2 ships make any profit from invention, recently I saw someone on the industry forums come back to the game who was asking how much their Vulture BPO was worth...

Interesting. It doesn't match my experience of making good profits from inventing T2 ships, but still…

Put another way: at the moment, any ship that's not worth-while inventing is also not worth-while having a BPO for.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#318 - 2014-04-15 18:05:22 UTC

Will you be adjusting the number of "RAM" we currently have.

I have 1000+ RAM that I regularly use for production. This is like 75+m isk worth of modules that will become 1/100th (75k) of the utility / value after the change. Should I plan to use up all my RAM and Db prior to the summer release, or will you adjust my hangar so 1000 RAM becomes the 100,000 RAM, maintaining my equivalent value and utility?

Overall, I think these changes are beautiful. I can't wait to see the UI changes and the other dev blogs to come.
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight
Diplomatic Incidents.
#319 - 2014-04-15 18:05:32 UTC
Imiarr Timshae wrote:
Khoul Ay'd wrote:


++ Where are all of the ice products coming from to feed all of the coming 0.8 - 1.0 poses that will go up. CCP, you do remember that you nerfed ice mining for the email operators a few expansions ago, right?


Dude, you're fine. Do what you did to customs offices. Go around and take all the moons because there's no restriction on doing so and then sell them. They just removed the only thing stopping overwhelming numbers from owning every highsec moon.


Luckily owning moons in highsec will be completely worthless now...
Khoul Ay'd
The Affiliation
#320 - 2014-04-15 18:05:55 UTC
Imiarr Timshae wrote:
Khoul Ay'd wrote:


++ Where are all of the ice products coming from to feed all of the coming 0.8 - 1.0 poses that will go up. CCP, you do remember that you nerfed ice mining for the email operators a few expansions ago, right?


Dude, you're fine. Do what you did to customs offices. Go around and take all the moons because there's no restriction on doing so and then sell them. They just removed the only thing stopping overwhelming numbers from owning every highsec moon.



Do you think RvBers don't have Indy alts untied to their main? Where do you think the ships that make pretty 'splosions come from?

The things we do today we must live with forever.... Think about it