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Dev blog: Building better Worlds

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Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#121 - 2014-04-15 16:12:41 UTC
penifSMASH wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
penifSMASH wrote:
How will cost scaling affect industry in conquerable stations? Will there be unlimited manufacturing/research/etc slots like in npc stations? If so will the station owner still be able to set costs of running jobs

Grarr Dexx wrote:
Will there be fees for building in 0.0 or can they just set them all to 0? Is there going to be any point to building anything outside of 0.0?


The cost scaling will affect all build/research locations, including conquerable stations and outposts. All slot limitations are being removed everywhere in EVE, and locations that formerly had slot bonuses will receive other bonuses instead. More info on that will be in future blogs.

Station owners will be able to set part of the cost of running jobs (in the form of taxes), but other parts of the cost will be out of the owner's control. Costs will not ever be able to be set to zero. Again, more info on this will be available in the upcoming blogs.


Where does this mysterious cost go to? Currently, market taxes, clone costs, industry costs and any fees that are station related go to the corp that owns the conquerable.


An offering to the god of balance.
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#122 - 2014-04-15 16:13:07 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Question: Will existing stacks of R.A.M. and R.Db be multiplied by 100 to compensate for the changes?

MDD


Yes indeed.

Will their volume be divided by 100? They are already quite bulky.

--
Slappy Andven
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#123 - 2014-04-15 16:14:09 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Xaniff wrote:

2. I predict there will be even more abandoned POSes out hogging all the spaces next to the moons. There needs to be some mechanic for these to be abandoned and destroyed in a reasonable amount of time after running out of fuel and failing to be maintained (like the secure containers that are lost, whether they hold goods or not).


Yeah, that's a good point, we'll note that one down.


I get the horrible sensation that you think these changes are all good and positive. They are not. The reaction from industrialists that lead to all those abandoned towers will have serious negative effects on the market as well. What will you do when those of us who build things decide it's not worth it anymore and decide to say screw it, we're not building things? Will you just start seeding the market like on Singularity? These changes seem focused on driving up risk for poor return on the reward side. The inability to lock down and safeguard blueprints in a corporate hangar in a station means one thing, and one thing only: You're taking assets that we have spent years and years building, and giving us complete crap in return. Why even bother playing the game with changes like this?

-- 

Slappy Andven

CEO Natural Born Killas
Quazal Atreides
StarTrucks
Prometheus Allegiance
#124 - 2014-04-15 16:14:53 UTC
how are RAMs going to work?

In your example you said 60 rams for 1 invuln field BPC - that is 240m3 of space per BPC

You woudl need a freighter load of RAMS just for a batch of t2 ship production?


Also,

How / or will standings have an impact on the build / research cost in stations, so tied into the same mechanics as sales tax you can reduce tax by skills? or, is the base cost a flat rate and cannot be reduced.!
If this it he case then the hoursand hours people spend doing mission for nothing but standings would be pointless

Still the only person to offer corp creation free of charge. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=35634#post35634 Created over 200 was 3rd on the all time corporation job history on eve-board. This service is in stasis due to personal game time...

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#125 - 2014-04-15 16:15:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Slappy Andven wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Xaniff wrote:

2. I predict there will be even more abandoned POSes out hogging all the spaces next to the moons. There needs to be some mechanic for these to be abandoned and destroyed in a reasonable amount of time after running out of fuel and failing to be maintained (like the secure containers that are lost, whether they hold goods or not).


Yeah, that's a good point, we'll note that one down.


I get the horrible sensation that you think these changes are all good and positive. They are not. The reaction from industrialists that lead to all those abandoned towers will have serious negative effects on the market as well. What will you do when those of us who build things decide it's not worth it anymore and decide to say screw it, we're not building things? Will you just start seeding the market like on Singularity? These changes seem focused on driving up risk for poor return on the reward side. The inability to lock down and safeguard blueprints in a corporate hangar in a station means one thing, and one thing only: You're taking assets that we have spent years and years building, and giving us complete crap in return. Why even bother playing the game with changes like this?


We're not removing the ability to lock down blueprints in your station. You can still lock down as before and build, research and copy using the infinite slots in the station.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#126 - 2014-04-15 16:16:17 UTC
Im really impressed with this, verry cool changes.

the things being addressed here are pretty much why i don't build anything in eve.


"Allow Starbases to be anchored anywhere in high-security space and without standing requirements (minus some protected solar systems, like Jita or new player starting systems of course)"


mwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Nimminnas Vibeke
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2014-04-15 16:18:13 UTC
In short say good bye:

- Research service corp/alliances
- Premade corp with high standings buisness
- High value BPO copy buisness

Say hello:

- Unlimited slots posibility

Next are be office?
Am i missed something?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#128 - 2014-04-15 16:18:17 UTC
Slappy Andven wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Xaniff wrote:

2. I predict there will be even more abandoned POSes out hogging all the spaces next to the moons. There needs to be some mechanic for these to be abandoned and destroyed in a reasonable amount of time after running out of fuel and failing to be maintained (like the secure containers that are lost, whether they hold goods or not).


Yeah, that's a good point, we'll note that one down.


I get the horrible sensation that you think these changes are all good and positive. They are not. The reaction from industrialists that lead to all those abandoned towers will have serious negative effects on the market as well. What will you do when those of us who build things decide it's not worth it anymore and decide to say screw it, we're not building things? Will you just start seeding the market like on Singularity? These changes seem focused on driving up risk for poor return on the reward side. The inability to lock down and safeguard blueprints in a corporate hangar in a station means one thing, and one thing only: You're taking assets that we have spent years and years building, and giving us complete crap in return. Why even bother playing the game with changes like this?


Not really.

These changes are about tilting the game in the direction it's supposed to be tilted -- you must endure risk for reward. A significant portion of the changes in Rubicon and in the new expansion are in the removal of low-to-no risk activities such as reprocessing, research, and manufacturing.

That being said, if you do wish to eliminate risk, you can still utilize station-based RAM lines.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Callic Veratar
#129 - 2014-04-15 16:18:35 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We're not removing the ability to lock down blueprints in your station. You can still lock down as before and build, research and copy using the infinite slots in the station.


It's almost like this is adding risk if players want free researching... Roll
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#130 - 2014-04-15 16:19:06 UTC
While we're talking about unavoidable costs in 0.0 stations, is there a reason repairs can be set to 0? Who is paying the guys patching up your ships? What about the materials needed to bring back structural integrity? It makes no sense.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#131 - 2014-04-15 16:19:21 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Slappy Andven wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Xaniff wrote:

2. I predict there will be even more abandoned POSes out hogging all the spaces next to the moons. There needs to be some mechanic for these to be abandoned and destroyed in a reasonable amount of time after running out of fuel and failing to be maintained (like the secure containers that are lost, whether they hold goods or not).


Yeah, that's a good point, we'll note that one down.


I get the horrible sensation that you think these changes are all good and positive. They are not. The reaction from industrialists that lead to all those abandoned towers will have serious negative effects on the market as well. What will you do when those of us who build things decide it's not worth it anymore and decide to say screw it, we're not building things? Will you just start seeding the market like on Singularity? These changes seem focused on driving up risk for poor return on the reward side. The inability to lock down and safeguard blueprints in a corporate hangar in a station means one thing, and one thing only: You're taking assets that we have spent years and years building, and giving us complete crap in return. Why even bother playing the game with changes like this?


We're not removing the ability to lock down blueprints in your station. You can still lock down as before and build, research and copy using the infinite slots in the station.


But they are in the POS... for research ... and production ... and invention ... Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#132 - 2014-04-15 16:19:38 UTC
I have an idea about "placeholder" POSes. Change the rule to:

A moon may have any number of POSes anchored. But only one can be on-line at any time.

Now if I anchor a POS but do not fuel it, anyone else can still put up theirs and turn it on, making mine useless. If I forget to fuel my POS someone else can take advantage and turn on theirs, and I'm out of luck.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
#133 - 2014-04-15 16:20:20 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
You will be able to see all your blueprints in assembly arrays etc and remotely start jobs from containers, so that should cover your use case.

EDIT: There is also a nice search / filter interface, you will get some time on SiSi to give us feedback on how this works before we go live too.


Thanks for the quick response. Remotely starting jobs from containers would deal with most of that problem; that mechanic is not currently available was all.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2014-04-15 16:20:36 UTC
sweet baby jesus
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#135 - 2014-04-15 16:20:57 UTC
Calorn Marthor wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
About being able to anchor POSes anywhere in high sec: Does that mean the very high security systems will become available? For example, right now you cannot anchor a POS in a 1.0 system. Will that change?


Can someone answer this one please?
Will we be able to set up towers in 0.8+ sec?


if I read the blog correctly

only the systems listed on the rookie systems page will be out of bounds (and places like Jita .. Jita was mentioned specifically too.)
Dominus Alterai
Star Freaks
#136 - 2014-04-15 16:21:55 UTC
So, a few questions for clarification:

If there are no longer slot limitations, what is the point of the Hyasyoda lab? If slots are no longer limited and cost more ISK instead, will slots in a mobile lab also cost ISK (if so, who will be paid)? When will we FINALLY be able to rent out slots in our towers to random people (a "feature" that hasn't been available since the introduction of POS structures)?

Reducing your holes to a quivering mess since 2009.
Callic Veratar
#137 - 2014-04-15 16:22:36 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
I have an idea about "placeholder" POSes. Change the rule to:

A moon may have any number of POSes anchored. But only one can be on-line at any time.

Now if I anchor a POS but do not fuel it, anyone else can still put up theirs and turn it on, making mine useless. If I forget to fuel my POS someone else can take advantage and turn on theirs, and I'm out of luck.



Decent idea. I also like the possibility of allowing it to be hacked and unanchored if left unpowered for a month or more. The two together would make POS ownership slow, but competitive.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#138 - 2014-04-15 16:22:37 UTC
I'm not even really sure what all you folks are upset about WRT the removal of lockdown BPO research and manufacturing. In highsec, you have to be wardecced before your POSes can come under attack. You get 24 hours notice to cancel jobs, pull up stakes, and flee to a new corporation. With the removal of standings requirements, it is trivial to cycle your corporation and keep your moon. If anything, it's becoming EASIER to mitigate this risk.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Allison A'vani
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2014-04-15 16:22:40 UTC
Slappy Andven wrote:


I get the horrible sensation that you think these changes are all good and positive. They are not. The reaction from industrialists that lead to all those abandoned towers will have serious negative effects on the market as well. What will you do when those of us who build things decide it's not worth it anymore and decide to say screw it, we're not building things? Will you just start seeding the market like on Singularity? These changes seem focused on driving up risk for poor return on the reward side. The inability to lock down and safeguard blueprints in a corporate hangar in a station means one thing, and one thing only: You're taking assets that we have spent years and years building, and giving us complete crap in return. Why even bother playing the game with changes like this?


BPOs are suppose to be like PLEX or rare items, they are investments. Literally no one who is remotely intelligent is ever going to use a POS for copying after this change. The risk is too extreme. Sure, I keep around 1 - 2B in materials in my manufacturing POS, but my 10 - 15B worth of BPOs will never ever be taken to a POS. Why would I ever make such a risk? Unless you bring the copy time on Advanced Labs down to something obscene like .10 multiplier or give 10x the copy yield, then NO ONE is EVER going to copy at a POS ever again.
Nemo Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2014-04-15 16:23:29 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Slappy Andven wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Xaniff wrote:

2. I predict there will be even more abandoned POSes out hogging all the spaces next to the moons. There needs to be some mechanic for these to be abandoned and destroyed in a reasonable amount of time after running out of fuel and failing to be maintained (like the secure containers that are lost, whether they hold goods or not).


Yeah, that's a good point, we'll note that one down.


I get the horrible sensation that you think these changes are all good and positive. They are not. The reaction from industrialists that lead to all those abandoned towers will have serious negative effects on the market as well. What will you do when those of us who build things decide it's not worth it anymore and decide to say screw it, we're not building things? Will you just start seeding the market like on Singularity? These changes seem focused on driving up risk for poor return on the reward side. The inability to lock down and safeguard blueprints in a corporate hangar in a station means one thing, and one thing only: You're taking assets that we have spent years and years building, and giving us complete crap in return. Why even bother playing the game with changes like this?


We're not removing the ability to lock down blueprints in your station. You can still lock down as before and build, research and copy using the infinite slots in the station.


The good thing about locking down your BPOs atm is that everyone in your corp can use them to produce in your POS, after the patch you would have to unlock a multi billion BPO, bring it to a pos and lock it again and hope that noone gains starbase operator and fueler roles (which you usually need to do anything relevant in a POS) and messes with the POS by offlineing it and then shooting the hangar or the laboratory.