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Extending Player driven content via contracts
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knowsitall
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-04-06 22:40:12 UTC
I would like to see more in game ways to create player driven content.

I think a very successful change in Eve was the move from the original ESROW system to the current contract system. The contract system has allowed corporation like Red Frog to be much more widely used. Most of the limitations with player driven content is that unless there is a proper game mechanics in place, it tends to be limited to between players that trust each other, and this is Eve - trust no one....

So I wanted to start a thread about new contract types. Suggestions on improvements to the current contract UI/usability please post in CCP stickied thread. I'm going to list some of the contract types I would like to see, with a brief description. Note these are not completely thought out so I'm sure there would be many things to consider before implementing. This is more about WHAT contracts you would like to see not necessary exactly HOW to implement them. That can be later.

NEW CONTRACT TYPE

Courier contracts for assembled ships

It would be nice to have a courier contracts like the current one that validates that the inventory is only fitted ships with same cargo restrictions as putting them in a ship maintenance bay. Then the package this gets put into the courier contract can be put in a ship maintenance bay like a fitted ship. This could actually be expanded for any specific bay contract, ammo etc. since the changes to haulers.

Loan with collateral

This contract would be aimed at people wanting loans rather than those offering them. You would basically say I want to borrow this much isk for this long and I will pay back this amount. In addition I offer these items as collateral with their location. The collateral is given to the person that accepted the loan if the repayment is not re-paid. I do it this way around as trying to set up a loan system for the person that is giving the loan involves trying to define what they will accept as collateral, that seems too complex. I sure corporations will make out of game tools that tell you what to set up as a contract that they would accept, as red frog does with telling you what to pay for a given trip.

Rental of item(s)

This contract would be that you can set up a contract to give item(s) to a player for a given amount of time for a fee. Again collateral would be given to the system, if they don't return the item in the time the person is given the collateral.

ME/PE service contract

This contract would allow you to contract a BPO with a required ME and PE value and the fee you will pay for this service and how long the researcher has to research it, along with the collateral the researcher has to pay for if they steal the BPO. Again this is aimed at the person wanting the service rather than the researcher as out of game stuff can handle that. This maybe easier than trying to make POSes lines public, that has been asked for a lot for a long time.


Feel free to flame away, or better yet make constructive criticism or add you own new contract type ideas.


Knowsitall
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2014-04-06 22:44:55 UTC
I support the first one (Courier Contract in the Maintenance Bay)... the Loan/Rental contracts used to exist but were taken out because no one used them for anything other than scamming... and I'm not sure about the BPO contract (wouldn't it be the same as buying from someone directly at a discount?).

How did you Veterans start?
knowsitall
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-04-06 22:55:46 UTC
To clarify the ME/PE contract, the person setting up the contract would put a BPO into the contract, along with what ME and PE they want, how long the researcher has to research and what the person making the contract will pay for the service. Collateral added to stop the researcher stealing the BPO. So the researcher is not buying the BPO. Instead you are giving the researcher your BPO (but with the insurance of collateral) for them to work on and give back.
knowsitall
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-04-07 09:37:52 UTC
Nowdays im more of an industrial player, but i was trying to think if there was any more combat focused contract types that would be useful. I thought of these. Obviously alot of the combat orientated contracts are more covered by the war dec, bounty system and kill rights market systems, so i think contracts would be a good way to deal with structure bashing.


Structure Removal

This would be a contract where you select a currently anchored/online structure and give what you will pay as a fee and what time period you want the work done in.


Structure Takeover

This would be a contract exactly like Structure removal but the attacking party put there own structure back and on completion of the contract the structure's ownership is moved over to the person that made the contract. This may have some issues with the current standing requirements for anchoring POSes in high sec, but something could be done about that. Note this could also be used by current owners of strutures to transfer ownership safely.


knowsitall
Alundil
Rolled Out
#5 - 2014-04-07 12:23:10 UTC
knowsitall wrote:
Nowdays im more of an industrial player, but i was trying to think if there was any more combat focused contract types that would be useful. I thought of these. Obviously alot of the combat orientated contracts are more covered by the war dec, bounty system and kill rights market systems, so i think contracts would be a good way to deal with structure bashing.


Structure Removal

This would be a contract where you select a currently anchored/online structure and give what you will pay as a fee and what time period you want the work done in.


Structure Takeover

This would be a contract exactly like Structure removal but the attacking party put there own structure back and on completion of the contract the structure's ownership is moved over to the person that made the contract. This may have some issues with the current standing requirements for anchoring POSes in high sec, but something could be done about that. Note this could also be used by current owners of strutures to transfer ownership safely.


knowsitall

Those last two are already handled by player to mercenary player contact largely through eve mail and private combo.



***for those needing assistance of the mercenary kind contact Sky Syndicate today.

I'm right behind you
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-04-07 13:38:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
You can already rent in game. Quite a few items sale and buy order are so close you can take them for a spin with little isk lost on a fast sell to a buy order. Call the lost isk your rental fee. Or drop your own sell order to get back a few more isk. I do this with charons from time to time. Couldn't justify keeping mine around so I buy and sell charons within a day when a need arises if isk lost on resale is less than the costs of red frogging it.



Not seeing collateral work well either. Eve had money lenders more common way back. many left the business because of collateral.


If market tanks for an item in a short time span the issue arises where the borrower generally loses the urge to pay off the loan. Why work their ass to get back their collateral now worth a a few say 100 mil isk less. So the lender kept the collateral. the collateral now valued at less isk.

You also had the issue of collateral determination for less set in stone priced items. Many money lenders hurt some t2 bpo owners ego's. Wtf do you mean you will only give me 4 billion for this. Its worth 8. Money lender would explain if defaulted he'd have the pita of selling the bpo. And the bpo market is rampant with people whose calcs are just off for worth. Well that and the more blunt money lenders would go if the BPO was that crap hot....you wouldn't be coming to them for a loan.
knowsitall
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-04-07 14:26:50 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
You can already rent in game. Quite a few items sale and buy order are so close you can take them for a spin with little isk lost on a fast sell to a buy order. Call the lost isk your rental fee. Or drop your own sell order to get back a few more isk. I do this with charons from time to time. Couldn't justify keeping mine around so I buy and sell charons within a day when a need arises if isk lost on resale is less than the costs of red frogging it.


That is all well and good at a trade hub, but i want to lend/rent out my frieghter to someone (that i don't entirly trust) and this is nowhere near a trade hub. The mechanism i said would allow this in a safe manner for both parties. I'm sure, regarding how inventive this community is, many other ways of using these contract types will be found/invented, to quote CCP emergent gameplay.



Zan Shiro wrote:
That is



Not seeing collateral work well either. Eve had money lenders more common way back. many left the business because of collateral.


If market tanks for an item in a short time span the issue arises where the borrower generally loses the urge to pay off the loan. Why work their ass to get back their collateral now worth a a few say 100 mil isk less. So the lender kept the collateral. the collateral now valued at less isk.

You also had the issue of collateral determination for less set in stone priced items. Many money lenders hurt some t2 bpo owners ego's. Wtf do you mean you will only give me 4 billion for this. Its worth 8. Money lender would explain if defaulted he'd have the pita of selling the bpo. And the bpo market is rampant with people whose calcs are just off for worth. Well that and the more blunt money lenders would go if the BPO was that crap hot....you wouldn't be coming to them for a loan
.


I agree, but that is exactly because of there being no in game mechanics with a secured ESCROW. As for the lender lossing isk if collateral drops in price, that is up to the loaner knowing there business. If they don't they should loss isk. It is also why i said this should be done from the person that wants the loan, not the person giving the loan. It would be up to the person wanting the isk to make an attractive contract that someone would be willing to invest in.

Lets go through the kind of scenario i think this would work for.

I build 5 freighters. Use most of my isk building them. This leaves me with a cash flow problem, but not a lack of assets. I would have 2 choices.
1) Sell all 5 and crash the price
2) put 2 on sell order, work out how long i think it will take to sell them. Then make a loan contract with the other 3 as collateral at 70% of current cost for the the time i need at a decent interest rate. So the fact i an undervaluing the collateral means nothing to me as the borrower as i expect to pay the loan and get it back. I don't have to trust the loan giver not to take the collateral and forget about the loan as it is in a secured ESCROW in the system, and if i pay the loan off the loan giver never sees the collateral. But i have to make the loan attrictive to an investor. Again this is a trust thing, in the old system one side has to be in a position were they need trust in the other. Either the borrower has to pay over the odds collateral with the risk the loan giver just steals the collateral or the loan giver has to trust the borrower to not just default the loan and leave you with collateral that is only just worth the loan.

This is why 3rd party trusted ESCROW system exist out of game now (like Chribba's). I don't think this would would stop that just suppliment it. As for the super capitals etc. you may have to pay up front before the item is even built, for this a 3rd party out of game service would still be required. This would be used i think for smaller type transactions.
knowsitall
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-04-07 14:38:09 UTC
Alundil wrote:
knowsitall wrote:
Nowdays im more of an industrial player, but i was trying to think if there was any more combat focused contract types that would be useful. I thought of these. Obviously alot of the combat orientated contracts are more covered by the war dec, bounty system and kill rights market systems, so i think contracts would be a good way to deal with structure bashing.


Structure Removal

This would be a contract where you select a currently anchored/online structure and give what you will pay as a fee and what time period you want the work done in.


Structure Takeover

This would be a contract exactly like Structure removal but the attacking party put there own structure back and on completion of the contract the structure's ownership is moved over to the person that made the contract. This may have some issues with the current standing requirements for anchoring POSes in high sec, but something could be done about that. Note this could also be used by current owners of strutures to transfer ownership safely.


knowsitall

Those last two are already handled by player to mercenary player contact largely through eve mail and private combo.



***for those needing assistance of the mercenary kind contact Sky Syndicate today.


This when done via eve mail and private convo means you needs to be trust on one or the other side. Im sure your business would get lots more work if you could find contracts people want done and accept them. So like courier contracts, that used to be done without in game mechanics, but since it had in game mechanics supporting it it has become main stream. The market for freighter services has increased due to this, as more people are willing to use them as they are not having to trust anyone or risk anything. Fear of being scammed in Eve is high, most player chose to not do something rather than risk being scammed trying to do it.

What is see contracts as, is basically a way for players to set up "missions" for other players.
knowsitall
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-04-14 15:06:44 UTC
Wondering if anyone else can think of any other contract types. So far this thread has just been people commenting on mine. I was hoping that some people would think of others that would be useful for them and the way they play Eve.


Knowsitall