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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

First post First post First post
Author
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1021 - 2014-04-14 11:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
Please just shut up already

Another recipient of the block feature. Yes, it's the start of the week - as in an anticipated dev update. Which could very well apply to the Pirate cruisers thread - except everyone's ecstatic with the changes (particularly the Gila and Vigilant).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Morukk Nuamzzar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1022 - 2014-04-14 11:42:36 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
It's the start of the week… Just saying...

18.9 billion ISK Raven... just saying...
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1023 - 2014-04-14 11:45:38 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
Please just shut up already

Another recipient of the block feature. Yes, it's the start of the week - as in an anticipated dev update. Which could very well apply to the Pirate cruisers thread - except everyone's ecstatic with the changes (particularly the Gila and Vigilant).


Pro tip: Blocking people who disagree with you or who want you to stop spamming does not make you right or a worthwhile poster. Just sayin'.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1024 - 2014-04-14 11:46:20 UTC
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:
18.9 billion ISK Raven... just saying...

Don't believe everything on zkillboard...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1025 - 2014-04-14 13:24:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Goldensaver wrote:
[
Going to defend him slightly here. You're incorrect in saying it's pure lip service. They did slightly roll back the Cynabal nerf while throwing it a miniscule bone (warp speed is cool!). It may be mostly lip service, but not quite pure.

Still the thing bugging me the most in this thread is people still being incapable of adding 500% drone damage and hitpoints and instead assuming 500% drone damage and hitpoints. It's the difference between 10 and 12 effective drones, people. Get it right. (same issue in the frigates thread with the Worm.)

I'd be alright with instead of more bandwidth, a 100% bonus to light drone damage and hitpoints giving it the option of using light drones at least on par with its peers (very slightly better than every other drone bonused ship using lights), and on par with its smaller brother, the Worm. 8 effective lights give it a bit more of an ability to react while still being far from the wrecking machine the 12 mediums will be in point blank.

And really people, asking for +drone bonuses? Yes, they're unique. But if you looked at the Dev blog they're doing pretty much everything in their power to reduce the number of drones possible on field, not increase them. They halved the number of fighters/fighter bombers in MOMs by doubling bonuses, why would they increase the number of drones a far cheaper and slightly more (less in this day and age?) common subcap can use?
Ok I'll give you the Cynabal Blink

The 500% - 12 drones still equals meh.
2 Warriors with 3 DDA's = 549.25 Dps
2 Hammerheads with 3 DDA's = 634.70
+ 4 bonused RML = 182.43 Dps (without reload time included)

I'm pretty sure we can agree the paper Dps looks pretty good.
The problems only come about when your actually trying to engage a target. From my observations "Activation Proximity" is going to have a huge affect on applying drone dps. Unless your target is webbed and scrammed, your drones are going to spend more time MWDing into range than actually firing on a target.

If CCP were really serious about reducing the number of drones, Ishtar, Dominix, Hyperion, Armageddon all far more common and widely used than Gurista ships.
The reduction for Supers to 10 bombers / fighters may have some benefit in large battles but nowhere near the benefit of not having 500 or 600 domis and their sentries on field would.
If too many drones in space is the logic behind this change then Guristas ships will be the testing line and it will not be long before all ships have their bandwidth limited in the same way.
Ishtar with 2 medium drones, Dominix with 2 sentry drones, Hyperion and Armageddon with 2 (unbonused?) heavy drones, Drake with 2 light drones.
No idea what they would do with carriers, which are far more prevalent in large fleet fights than supers and are capable of fielding 15 fighters.

This of course like much in this thread, is pure speculation but as the Devs have gone silent what else do we have?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1026 - 2014-04-14 13:29:54 UTC
Gefen Orion wrote:
Question on the Gila regarding the Gallente cruiser bonus - how the hell did the gallente side of the ship managed to received a missile damage bonus? It's totally out of line. Drop that bonus to the caldari side, make gallente bonus involve drone bonus, like drone navigation or tracking bonus. Seriously, gallente having a missile damage bonus, really?


as much as i agree with you... ccp got other plans...

though a bonus to tracking and speed would be awesome.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#1027 - 2014-04-14 13:32:13 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Gefen Orion wrote:
Question on the Gila regarding the Gallente cruiser bonus - how the hell did the gallente side of the ship managed to received a missile damage bonus? It's totally out of line. Drop that bonus to the caldari side, make gallente bonus involve drone bonus, like drone navigation or tracking bonus. Seriously, gallente having a missile damage bonus, really?


as much as i agree with you... ccp got other plans...

though a bonus to tracking and speed would be awesome.

Would make a lot of sense also as earlier it was mentioned that medium drones will have a lot of trouble engaging many fast targets. The Gila won't be able to switch to light drones, so perhaps a speed and tracking bonus would be the way to go.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1028 - 2014-04-14 13:37:50 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Gefen Orion wrote:
Question on the Gila regarding the Gallente cruiser bonus - how the hell did the gallente side of the ship managed to received a missile damage bonus? It's totally out of line. Drop that bonus to the caldari side, make gallente bonus involve drone bonus, like drone navigation or tracking bonus. Seriously, gallente having a missile damage bonus, really?


as much as i agree with you... ccp got other plans...

though a bonus to tracking and speed would be awesome.

Would make a lot of sense also as earlier it was mentioned that medium drones will have a lot of trouble engaging many fast targets. The Gila won't be able to switch to light drones, so perhaps a speed and tracking bonus would be the way to go.


splitting up some of the 500% drone HP/damage to the gallente skill would make more sense.... having to actually work for all that drone bonus should be mandatory ... give the missile bonus to caldari skill ... why limit skills to 1 per racial skill?
especially when you see the sisters line having so many role bonuses.... which are free gifts basically...
powerful bonuses and modules (webs)should require a lot of time investment too justify them...

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Chandoraa
Mass Collapse
It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
#1029 - 2014-04-14 13:45:38 UTC
So when are we finding out about the Battleships? I thought I saw a posting saying it would be the end of last week, I guess that has now been put back, but when to?
Morukk Nuamzzar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1030 - 2014-04-14 13:51:41 UTC
Chandoraa wrote:
So when are we finding out about the Battleships? I thought I saw a posting saying it would be the end of last week, I guess that has now been put back, but when to?

Soon.
Morukk Nuamzzar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1031 - 2014-04-14 13:53:47 UTC
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:
Chandoraa wrote:
So when are we finding out about the Battleships? I thought I saw a posting saying it would be the end of last week, I guess that has now been put back, but when to?

Soon.

LOL, very soon Cool
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1032 - 2014-04-14 14:23:24 UTC
It's up already, sheesh. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1033 - 2014-04-14 14:28:03 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
It's up already, sheesh. Smile


Yea, but that doesn't answer the question of when the Battleship thread will be up dang it!! Cool
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1034 - 2014-04-14 14:34:09 UTC
Looks like the Gila changes are set in stone.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#1035 - 2014-04-14 14:36:36 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Looks like the Gila changes are set in stone.



If youve read any of the other ship threads by Rise, youd have known that already

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Othran
Route One
#1036 - 2014-04-14 15:14:01 UTC
Cynabal changes look reasonable - from the point of a 425 AC pilot who has only ever flown them in PvP.

Only thing I'd suggest is that you either make it 4.75AU warp speed or reduce the amount of mass you're adding/don't reduce agility.

Reason is that the Cynabal currently has good sub-warp acceleration even if the top speed is lower than other ships.

It doesn't hit the same top speed as a Vaga (for example) but it will currently accelerate faster which has its advantages in some situations. I'd have to test it but my gut feeling is that the mass addition will pretty much negate that advantage.

If you're going to negate the "jump start" which the Cynabal currently has by adding mass/reducing agility then I think perhaps you ought to give a little more on the warp speed side of things. Being able to warp marginally faster than a dessie would mean that in the average sized system it'd be close at each gate if either were chasing each other due to align times.

tl;dr Cynabal changes seem fair if you use ACs, no idea about arty myself; mass/agility changes and/or warp speed changes probably need tweaking, but not by much.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#1037 - 2014-04-14 15:36:54 UTC
Sadly the nerfs to the Ashimmu's web strength (in lieu of range) will make what was a very cool hull 'meh' overall.

If you must nerf the 90% webs, then recommend a small buff to neut/nos amount and range also.
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1038 - 2014-04-14 15:39:20 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Xavier Thorm wrote:
Role Bonus:
25% Kinetic and Thermal missile damage

Can't say as I'm a big fan of cutting this in half.


Like I said before, I doubt my numbers are perfect. A 50% damage bonus might be balanced, but I didn't run all the numbers yet.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#1039 - 2014-04-14 17:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
Gefen Orion wrote:
Question on the Gila regarding the Gallente cruiser bonus - how the hell did the gallente side of the ship managed to received a missile damage bonus? It's totally out of line. Drop that bonus to the caldari side, make gallente bonus involve drone bonus, like drone navigation or tracking bonus. Seriously, gallente having a missile damage bonus, really?


Welcome to several weeks ago. Devs have already explained that the only alternative would be to put a crazy 125% per level drone bonus on the Gallente skill, which would make the ship unusable without Gallente Cruiser V - something they want to avoid.

If that's your biggest complaint, enjoy your new Gila, it's going to be fun.

This is pretty much it, and is somewhat justified by Roden Shipyards, a Gallente manufacturer that used to deal pretty heavily with missiles.
Harvey James wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:

as much as i agree with you... ccp got other plans...

though a bonus to tracking and speed would be awesome.

Would make a lot of sense also as earlier it was mentioned that medium drones will have a lot of trouble engaging many fast targets. The Gila won't be able to switch to light drones, so perhaps a speed and tracking bonus would be the way to go.


splitting up some of the 500% drone HP/damage to the gallente skill would make more sense.... having to actually work for all that drone bonus should be mandatory ... give the missile bonus to caldari skill ... why limit skills to 1 per racial skill?
especially when you see the sisters line having so many role bonuses.... which are free gifts basically...
powerful bonuses and modules (webs)should require a lot of time investment too justify them...

It's because they're trying to make it so skills are strong and helpful, but not game breaking to not have them. Have you seen what they're doing to Drone Interfacing? It's because it's something like a 20 day train to have what is considered the "acceptable" level of damage with your drones. At least as far as I've seen they're trying to move away from "skill level V or biomass" bonuses because they simply don't allow choices. You can't compromise and train to level IV and "make do".

And remember, these are T1 ships. They shouldn't have excessive skill investments to put them into an acceptable place. Skills should absolutely make them better, no question about it, but they shouldn't be the be all and end all. The only difference between these and a normal T1 ship is an additional racial hull skill which isn't exactly a huge train, but they don't want the bonuses to be so large that you absolutely have to max it instantly.



As far as a bonus to tracking and speed, that would be great. I could see that going on the Gallente hull bonus. Perhaps in addition to the Missile bonus on the Gallente hull, or they could make the missile bonus a role bonus. Who knows? As Harvey said, why limit skills to 1 per racial skill? Or why not make it a role bonus?


Edit: xposting from Rise who xposted from Reddit:
[–]CCP_Rise CCP Employee 1 point 61 milliseconds ago
I wish there was a way to avoid it but there really isn't. If we put the drone damage bonus on the Gallente skill and put missile damage in the role bonus (as it was before) it would mean people were basically required to have level 5 of the Gallente skill to use the ship, which we don't want.
It's also not like Gallente never use missiles. Until recently all the Roden ships used them.

Read it here.
Hedge Fox
Apolitical
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#1040 - 2014-04-14 17:58:15 UTC
Ugh.

WTS LOTS OF GILAs.