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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Smelly PirateWhore
Perkone
Caldari State
#961 - 2014-04-13 18:16:58 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hexatron Ormand wrote:
So there are the cruisers! Waited for them quite some time. Next thing i am looking forward to is the posting about the battleships.


Going to give these a few days and hopefully post the BS near the end of the week.



or not
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#962 - 2014-04-13 18:26:06 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
There is no good reason to change Gurstas so drastically. Many Guristas pilots trained to use sentries for a Snake and that is what we want to use, not be forced into switching into Gallente ships due to an inability to see reason on the part of certain devs. Currently the only commonality between Guristas is the use of drones. Missiles, shield bonuses and the hull and ship maneuverability all belong to Caldari. There is no overlap with Gallente.


Be a responsible dev instead of an negligent ******* and create "new and exciting" brawler ships instead of shitting on your players and drastically changing old ones, please. You people clearly don't even understand your own game and have your head way too far up your own ass.


Look at all of the valid complaints over your horrible idea and do the right thing.


Your argument is literally "I don't like what you did stop trying to fix and optimize things and instead introduce more pointless ships/factions because THATS how you rebalance things, you add more things to balance". What do you even mean by "no overlap with Gallente" anyways? I suppose the fact that they were both sentry platforms has gone completely over your head, somehow. It's not stats. It's ROLES. Besides, if you trained to use sentries on a Rattlesnake, did you know that in fact it requires Gallente Battleship to fly? So picking up a Dominix for use as a sentry boat really isn't that much of a stretch.

tl;dr you don't understand the changes, you're projecting ("...clearly don't even understand (the) game and have your head way too far up your own ass."), and indeed, the Devs will look at the valid complaints and do the right thing.

They'll probably tweak the new Gila to have better functionality against a wider range of shiptypes but otherwise keep it roughly the way it's on the path to becoming. And ignore your angry unconstructive attack on their efforts.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#963 - 2014-04-13 18:46:38 UTC
Aglais wrote:
Your argument is literally...

Don't feed the troll… Pirate

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Hasril Pux
Red Cabal
#964 - 2014-04-13 19:20:59 UTC
Insulting posts directed at developers only serve to aggravate their minds. An aggravated mind can't even think straight about what you are saying because it's too spun up by the noise of your angry attitude. You are not helping yourself or anyone who might agree with your concerns if you are constantly peppering your words with insults.

That being said, I don't like the proposals concerning Guristas ships either. In a Gila or a Rattlesnake I have personally never felt outclassed by Ishtars and Dominixes respectively. I have always felt that the shield tank and use of missiles combined with the supreme versatility of a drone boat has been a big enough difference to make the Guristas line a very unique and intriguing option.

With the current proposal I see the Gila losing all ability to function efficiently in the roles I currently use it in and have planned for the future. As a Gila pilot I use sentry drones and light drones almost exclusively. I barely ever use medium drones at all. I like being able to drop onto the field like a brick ****house, hold position, drop sentries and apply instant reliable damage, while still having the option to switch tactics on the fly and brawl whenever I want.

While the idea of having two super drones is a cool idea, I don't like my Gilas being forced to brawl with medium drones alone.

I agree that Guristas ships need to be changed to bring them up to speed. I disagree with the sentiment that they need to be so drastically different than other drone boats as to sacrifice bandwidth and diminish the effectiveness and variety of tools at their disposal. A Worm can now only field 2 E-war/Repair/Salvage drones, a Gila only 4.

No one seems to be complaining about the loss of the 50% range bonus on missiles. Neither am I, that has always seemed like an unnecessary bonus on these ships that didn't fit with any of my uses for them. Maybe that could be switched out for the 50% bonus to damage for kinetic/thermal missiles. And then I could safely justify drawing a missile between the teeth of my Guristas bunny-skull like a big cigar. That's got to be the most reasonable argument posted so far.

Include an increase (over the current 10%) in drone hitpoints/damage to focus Guristas ships more on raw striking power and endurance which would emphasize a more conventional approach as a contrast to the advanced tracking and range capabilities of Gallente ships.

If you like any of the older ship models (original artwork) better than the redesign of your favorite hull and don't want them to be lost forever, support ship customization and this feature request.
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#965 - 2014-04-13 19:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Fabulous Rod
Hasril Pux wrote:

No one seems to be complaining about the loss of the 50% range bonus on missiles. Neither am I, that has always seemed like an unnecessary bonus on these ships that didn't fit with any of my uses for them.


Don't say no one is complaining about it. The velocity bonus greatly helps to in torpedo fits and shortens the time between target switches for cruise missiles.

If these ships need balance, fine. But why unnecessarily take things away from them and gimp so severely(20 drone bandwidth) ? We chose to fly these ships because of their high versatility. The only people who like these changes are people who don't fly Guristas.
Hasril Pux
Red Cabal
#966 - 2014-04-13 19:51:26 UTC
Noted. Rather I should say, less people.

If you like any of the older ship models (original artwork) better than the redesign of your favorite hull and don't want them to be lost forever, support ship customization and this feature request.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#967 - 2014-04-13 19:52:36 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Hasril Pux wrote:

No one seems to be complaining about the loss of the 50% range bonus on missiles. Neither am I, that has always seemed like an unnecessary bonus on these ships that didn't fit with any of my uses for them.


Don't say no one is complaining about it. The velocity bonus greatly helps to in torpedo fits and shortens the time between target switches for cruise missiles.

If these ships need balance, fine. But why unnecessarily take things away from them and gimp so severely(20 drone bandwidth) ? We chose to fly these ships because of their high versatility. The only people who like these changes are people who don't fly Guristas.


damage-bonused cruise will probably outdamage and outrange torpedoes, without all the other horrible problems torpedoes get (constant reloads, ridiculous charge size, and yeah, laughable range). you're only trading versatility here when swapping sentries for mediums.
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#968 - 2014-04-13 19:54:38 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Hasril Pux wrote:

No one seems to be complaining about the loss of the 50% range bonus on missiles. Neither am I, that has always seemed like an unnecessary bonus on these ships that didn't fit with any of my uses for them.


Don't say no one is complaining about it. The velocity bonus greatly helps to in torpedo fits and shortens the time between target switches for cruise missiles.

If these ships need balance, fine. But why unnecessarily take things away from them and gimp so severely(20 drone bandwidth) ? We chose to fly these ships because of their high versatility. The only people who like these changes are people who don't fly Guristas.


damage-bonused cruise will probably .


try not to talk out of your *******. Thanks.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#969 - 2014-04-13 19:59:05 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Hasril Pux wrote:

No one seems to be complaining about the loss of the 50% range bonus on missiles. Neither am I, that has always seemed like an unnecessary bonus on these ships that didn't fit with any of my uses for them.


Don't say no one is complaining about it. The velocity bonus greatly helps to in torpedo fits and shortens the time between target switches for cruise missiles.

If these ships need balance, fine. But why unnecessarily take things away from them and gimp so severely(20 drone bandwidth) ? We chose to fly these ships because of their high versatility. The only people who like these changes are people who don't fly Guristas.


damage-bonused cruise will probably .


try not to talk out of your *******. Thanks.


what do the stars mean
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#970 - 2014-04-13 20:40:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
KaDa en Bauldry wrote:


Super-sentries might be interesting though...


oh no. they can't give the snake a bonus to sentries, because then it would overlap with the dominix

so the snake will get 2 super heavy drones
because that doesn't overshadow other ship lines


that logic was the Dev's btw not mine, on why the gila got 2 mediums - because Ishtar

and people don't understand why it's such a stupid, ******, fuckwit change
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#971 - 2014-04-13 20:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Kitty Bear wrote:
so the snake will get 2 super heavy drones because that doesn't overshadow other ship lines … that logic was the Dev's btw not mine, on why the gila got 2 mediums - because Ishtar

Light and medium drones are one thing. Heavies - they generally suck for both PvE and PvP. Maybe the Rattlesnake loses all its drones and turns into a dedicated missile platform.
Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#972 - 2014-04-13 20:59:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Fabulous Rod
Kitty Bear wrote:
KaDa en Bauldry wrote:


Super-sentries might be interesting though...


oh no. they can't give the snake a bonus to sentries, because then it would overlap with the dominix

so the snake will get 2 super heavy drones
because that doesn't overshadow other ship lines


that logic was the Dev's btw not mine, on why the gila got 2 mediums - because Ishtar

and people don't understand why it's such a stupid, ******, fuckwit change


Exactly. The only commonality between Guristas and Gallente are the use of drones. The use of missiles, shield-tanking, the hull, stats and maneuverability are all typical of Caldari. The overlap argument seems without much merit considering all these difference to Gallente.

Why are Guristas current use of drones not considered an acceptable level overlap when Guristas are supposed to be a mix of Gallente and Caldari?

Make new ships if you want to create super niche application weird drone ships that nobody would really fly.
CW Itovuo
The Executioners
#973 - 2014-04-13 21:13:37 UTC
I think I prefer the Gila in it's current form.


If you'd like to create some real change, rather than just tweaking the numbers here and there to make the GIla different from the Ishtar, consider...

As things stand, there is currently no drone ship in EVE that enjoys an E-WAR/Combat Utility drone bonus. Adding such a bonus would make for a unique and flexible ship, rather than a reshuffled "not-an-Ishtar-Gila." (Someone posted a similar idea around post #170)


Consider giving the Gila a 300% bonus to E-War & Combat Utility effects.


(Suggesting a 300% bonus based the proposed 20-mbit Bandwidth, but would like to see 25 to 30 minimum, reduce drone DPS % as necessary)



STRONG:

Single regular SW-600 webbing drone = 10%
Single bonused Gila's SW-600 drone = 30%

Single regular Vespa 600 jam strength = 1.5 (7.8% versus hurricane)
Single bonused Gila Vespa 600 drone = 4.5 (23.4% versus hurricane)

Single regular Dampening SD-600 = 12%
Single bonused Gila's SD-600 drone = 36%


WEAK:

Single regular Nueting EV-600 = 1.67 cap per second
Single bonused Gila EV-600 = 5.01 cap per second

Single regular Painting TP600 = +8%
Single bonused Gila's TP600 = +24%





Combat Utility drones are almost completely ignored in the game. Verge of Collapse used EV600's to great effect versus Clockwork Pineapple in AT11. But even the commentators (CCP Dolan & some RK doof) we somewhat flabbergasted at their appearance. While CCP Fozzie is announcing changes to drones in this DEV BLOG, he completely ignores the E-WAR and Combat Utility class of drones.


ECM drones are strong and useful on their own, the Utility Drones could use some adjustment.


Webbing drones have always appeared hit/miss. Probably something to do w/ the speed of the target outpacing the effective range of the drone. Might need some adjustment to effective range/firing cycle....

The Nueting drones can be useful, but only in great numbers. VOC was successful in AT11, only because they were able to deploy 20+ drones against a single Logi. Providing a boost to cap drain would be welcome change.

Target painting drones... yeah, probably still not going to see much use. Perhaps TP drones should operate more like a sentry or standard TP modules. Rather than chase after a target to get into effecive range, TP drones deploy like a sentry and instantly "paint" their target, having an effective/falloff range similar to modules. Like all utility drones, percentage modified could use some love as well.

Dampening drones, like the painters, probably aren't going to see a lot of use. But having a bonused flight of them in your dronebay can be useful against an enemy falcon/logi @ range. (The Gila is somewhat hamburgered by targeting and drone range in this scenario.)


Adjusting both the utility drones and creating a ship to maximize those changes would be a positive change to the game.


Doubling the DPS output of a weapon while halving it's rate of fire is just another sidewalk card shuffle game. CCP can do better.
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#974 - 2014-04-13 21:17:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Fabulous Rod
Why not improve the shields and close range missile damage instead of specializing Guristas into medium and heavy drones that nobody wants to use? Nobody could be angry with you for that.

If you are going to force us into specialized drones, the drones need the ability to teleport instantly back to the drone bay.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#975 - 2014-04-13 21:19:15 UTC
Web a drone. Half the Gilas DPS just went out the window. Not enough room in drone bay for a 2nd set.

Missiles? Roll

The only people happy with these changes are people who don't fly Guristas, the majority.

I'm sure a lot of Gila pilots are going to be happy about having to throw 2 drones away everytime they have to warp out immediately.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#976 - 2014-04-13 21:30:19 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
Web a drone. Half the Gilas DPS just went out the window. Not enough room in drone bay for a 2nd set.


I don't know why nobody else gets this. I'd really prefer the usual 5 drones, even though they would have much less HP.
KaDa en Bauldry
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#977 - 2014-04-13 21:51:33 UTC  |  Edited by: KaDa en Bauldry
Nerf Burger wrote:
Web a drone. Half the Gilas DPS just went out the window. Not enough room in drone bay for a 2nd set.
Small nitpick: Somehow now I see 20/100 in the drone department for the Gila.
Even what I remember as original, a spare flight would have been possible with a broken flight of light ECM drones.

(Plus the dps of 6 medium launchers with kin/therm missiles. Ship needs to brawl anyways, so HAMs?)

Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting.
DR BiCarbonate
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#978 - 2014-04-13 22:50:54 UTC
Cynabal is fine where it is. no need to nerf it.
Hehaw Jimbojohnson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#979 - 2014-04-13 23:39:25 UTC
These changes make me really worry how badly they're going to **** the Machariel. The devs in charge are clearly looking at how balance was a couple years ago when they make their decisions. Past changes (such as TE nerf and buffing of other ships) have already made the Angel line balanced, if not lackluster in many ways. Nerfing them further is just going to ensure they are never used.

As for the Gila, pigeonholing it into a drone system that is currently trash (and no, the small drone changes won't fix crap, mediums will still suck) is not going to make the ship more attractive once the "OHH SHINY" factor wears off.
Meandering Milieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#980 - 2014-04-13 23:56:04 UTC
To those who keep saying the only overlap between guristas and gallente are drones, and that the guristas is clearly different than gallente because they shield tank and don't use hybrids:

I shield tank both my domi and my ishtar, and my ishtar doesn't even have guns. I have seen a good few people who do this, have posted about this, posted fits about this, and so on.