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CCP - Selectable Damage Types for Amarr pretty please
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DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2011-12-01 10:29:16 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
DeBingJos wrote:
Fix My Lasers wrote:
t Lasers do low and stable damage on a range



Sorry??? Scorch; low and stable???

Scorch has HIGH damage at MEDIUM range.


Just the same as Barrage.
The difference in dps between Scorch and Barrage is 5%.

edit: Also don't forget, minnie ships can fit more damage mods because they tank with the shield.


This is not true. I compared it in EFT for you. I took an unbonused ship (rokh) and fitted 1 425mm autocannon II and 1 Heavy pulse laser II and compared the stats.

Result:
Barrage M range 2.4 + 14 = 14 dps 76 alpha (AT OPTIMAL = 2.4km)
Scorch M range 18 + 4 = 15 dps 79 alpha (AT OPTIMAL 18km)

This is what I meant with my first post. In real combat situation you will be doing +- half the EFT damage with Barrage and full damage with Scorch due to the longer optimal.

Example: At 18 km (disruptor range) Barrage will do 14 / 2 = 7 dps and scorch will still do 15 dps.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Ethidium Bromide
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
#62 - 2011-12-01 10:31:53 UTC
lasers got other advantages!

best dmg over range ratio, there is no more versatile gun than pulses in game.
basicly no ammo usage, tech 2 and faction also last a good long time and take no cargo.

i don't see a reason to add other damage types tbh.
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2011-12-01 10:41:05 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
Fix My Lasers wrote:
DeBingJos wrote:
Fix My Lasers wrote:
t Lasers do low and stable damage on a range



Sorry??? Scorch; low and stable???

Scorch has HIGH damage at MEDIUM range.


Just the same as Barrage.
The difference in dps between Scorch and Barrage is 5%.

edit: Also don't forget, minnie ships can fit more damage mods because they tank with the shield.


This is not true. I compared it in EFT for you. I took an unbonused ship (rokh) and fitted 1 425mm autocannon II and 1 Heavy pulse laser II and compared the stats.

Result:
Barrage M range 2.4 + 14 = 14 dps 76 alpha (AT OPTIMAL = 2.4km)
Scorch M range 18 + 4 = 15 dps 79 alpha (AT OPTIMAL 18km)

This is what I meant with my first post. In real combat situation you will be doing +- half the EFT damage with Barrage and full damage with Scorch due to the longer optimal.

Example: At 18 km (disruptor range) Barrage will do 14 / 2 = 7 dps and scorch will still do 15 dps.


Did you include in your calculations Tracking and the chances to hit on both? If a target has transversal speed like 300 or 400 who will land more hits, AC or Laser?
There are also situations, when somone uses Neut on you and you can't fire a singe shot because you're out of cap.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2011-12-01 10:44:33 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:

Did you include in your calculations Tracking and the chances to hit on both? If a target has transversal speed like 300 or 400 who will land more hits, AC or Laser?
There are also situations, when somone uses Neut on you and you can't fire a singe shot because you're out of cap.


No I only compared the guns on an unbonussed ship. We are talking about weapon systems not about fits or tactics.

Yes, minmatar has lowslots for tracking enhancers, but amarr have midslots for tracking computers, more tank vs more gank, ...

Focus on the weapons.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2011-12-01 10:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Fix My Lasers
DeBingJos wrote:
Fix My Lasers wrote:

Did you include in your calculations Tracking and the chances to hit on both? If a target has transversal speed like 300 or 400 who will land more hits, AC or Laser?
There are also situations, when somone uses Neut on you and you can't fire a singe shot because you're out of cap.


No I only compared the guns on an unbonussed ship. We are talking about weapon systems not about fits or tactics.

Yes, minmatar has lowslots for tracking enhancers, but amarr have midslots for tracking computers, more tank vs more gank, ...

Focus on the weapons.


You missed the point.
I meant ACs have a higher Tracking then Lasers. Base numbers without any bonuses.

P.S. Applying bonuses this difference will be much higher.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2011-12-01 11:02:19 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:

You missed the point.
I meant ACs have a higher Tracking then Lasers. Base numbers without any bonuses.

P.S. Applying bonuses this difference will be much higher.


Yes projectiles have higher tracking, but they also have half the damage at the ranges in my previous post.

I'm just saying that layzors and projectiles are quite well balanced vs each other imo.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#67 - 2011-12-01 11:03:46 UTC
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
Crystals with different damage types would imbalance them, imo. T1 crystals last forever, T2/Faction crystals still last longer for the investment than typical ammo, take up less cargo, and near-instant ammo switching. All that is worth the trade-off of only doing EM/Thermal damage.


Im a full Amarr only spec pilot from frig to dread and i agree with this.

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2011-12-01 11:15:21 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
Fix My Lasers wrote:

You missed the point.
I meant ACs have a higher Tracking then Lasers. Base numbers without any bonuses.

P.S. Applying bonuses this difference will be much higher.


Yes projectiles have higher tracking, but they also have half the damage at the ranges in my previous post.

I'm just saying that layzors and projectiles are quite well balanced vs each other imo.


Yep. If you do not compare ships, only weapons.

The only thing why I love Projs more because of selectable damage type and no cap use.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html
Sai Hai
Funk Freakers
#69 - 2011-12-01 11:25:18 UTC
Silence iKillYouu wrote:
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
Crystals with different damage types would imbalance them, imo. T1 crystals last forever, T2/Faction crystals still last longer for the investment than typical ammo, take up less cargo, and near-instant ammo switching. All that is worth the trade-off of only doing EM/Thermal damage.


Im a full Amarr only spec pilot from frig to dread and i agree with this.


Then why are you here? If you didn't fly any other ship you wouldn't know the difference.

I fly every race ship up to BS and the lasers have a big disadvantage against others.
Stats wise lasers are balanced compared the others, except lasers have one damage type combo.
This game isn't all about pvp. Pve happends here much more then you think. Every good amarr pilot knows how sucky is to do Guristas missions when you can't damage rats with fully maxed skills on guns.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#70 - 2011-12-01 11:42:59 UTC
Lasers have a high optimal and therefore do full damage. Projectiles and Hybrids are often shooting in falloff which lowers the damage they can apply.

For the record, I consider Scorch and Barrage as overpowered, neither Lasers or Projectiles need another buff.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#71 - 2011-12-01 12:21:06 UTC
Wow, a lot of misconceptions on page one alone.


First of all, lasers should not be able to do kin/exp damage from a gameplay perspective.

Secondly, speaking from a physics point of view, in RL, the effective damage caused to armored targets by lasers is the result of material getting vaporized in the beam, thereby expanding and causing an explosion (exp) which in turn breaks off parts of the armor and whatever else is in reach and turns them into shrapnel (kin).

Thirdly, "missiles and hybrids should be the only weapon systems to be able to inflict all four damage types selectively as they utilize a warhead."

RAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!

What the F*CK DO YOU THINK artillery guns use nowadays, slabs of stones like in the middle ages? I'll tell you what you can fit into a standard 155mm artillery shell nowadays: A nuke.


If you try to bring real life comparisons to a game, Don't be a moron. Make them appear to be sound at first glance at least.
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2011-12-01 13:33:36 UTC
I'm sure no one cares about explanations why lasers do a kinetic damage.
Just give us another damage type, like every other race have.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2011-12-01 13:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Fix My Lasers wrote:
I'm sure no one cares about explanations why lasers do a kinetic damage.
Just give us another damage type, like every other race have.


I have a feelling some people flying Amarr have been burned by the T2 High em/therm resist ships of the minnies.... now they are crying for another damage type.

Use missles... HAM SAC, HAM Legion, Curse works great.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Real Poison
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2011-12-01 14:03:05 UTC
amarr is overpowered with it's ability to switch range and damage with no wait time.

NERF AMARR!, give them a 10sec delay to switch their crystals :P
or make every weapon type reload instantly.


and make their ships rust too!
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#75 - 2011-12-01 14:05:45 UTC
Lasers do not need to be given additional damage types. Lasers are limited to em/therm. Hybrids are limited to thermal/kinetic. Projectiles should be limited to kinetic/explosive.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
Jerek Mothas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2011-12-01 14:26:06 UTC
Guess the Amarr aren't satisfied with their light, near-permanent ammo, ridiculous firing rates, and instantaneous reloading. Now they want their lasers to impact and explode too?

What is this galaxy coming to? Ugh

Failfitting ships since 2007.

"Those who control their tongue will have a long life; opening your mouth can ruin everything." - Solomon
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2011-12-01 15:29:41 UTC
What permanent ammo?! You only use T1 ammo if you want to die.
I won't be caring much if T1 had limited use or T2 was cut twice or more.

Also I won't be flying Curse or any other armarr non laser ship because there are better ships of their type/role.
I didn't train Amarr skills to fly non laser boat.

The trolls fit WoW better. So please, if you can't come up with something constructive go trolling in some "NEW FONTS SUCK" thread.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2011-12-01 16:27:40 UTC
Selinate wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:


Not only will this help in regards to missions but also in PvP as I suspect many people don't use Amarr ship because you are stuck with Thermal / EM damage.

Many Thanks Big smile


Had to quote that...

Since I seem to be engaging mostly Amarr ship in pvp. It's like people that post threads about game changes don't play the game... Amarr is not the only race with two damage types.


hmm? What other race is stuck with two damage types?

Gallente get big drone bonuses right off the bat with blasters, they get more than 2 damage types.

Caldari have rails and missiles, they get more than 2 damage types.

Amarr are pretty much stuck with lasers up until T2 ships, aside from maybe 1 or 2 other T1 ships that aren't often used. Granted, I like my Amarr ships for PvP, just sayin' that I can't think of another race stuck so tightly with 2 damage types until T2 ships...


Thats not really true. Some ships actually work well in certain situations without lasers AC Punisher, AC Maller, Arty Baddon to name a three off the top of my head. You might not get bonuses but sometimes its an acceptable trade-off when it comes to PG/Cap management.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2011-12-01 16:29:45 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Fix My Lasers wrote:
I'm sure no one cares about explanations why lasers do a kinetic damage.
Just give us another damage type, like every other race have.


I have a feelling some people flying Amarr have been burned by the T2 High em/therm resist ships of the minnies.... now they are crying for another damage type.

Use missles... HAM SAC, HAM Legion, Curse works great.


Its like shooting a brick wall Cry

But you make your choice and you take your chances.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#80 - 2011-12-01 16:34:48 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
I'm sure no one cares about explanations why lasers do a kinetic damage.
Just give us another damage type, like every other race have.

…you man aside from the Gallente and (half of) the Caldari?

Oh, and again: what reload times, ammo (and cargo space) consumption, and reduced range brackets are you proposing as a counter to this increased damage application ability?