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CCP - Selectable Damage Types for Amarr pretty please

Author
Freezehunter
#41 - 2011-12-01 06:36:40 UTC
And how exactly can a laser beam do explosive and kinetic damage?

Also, I agree with the fact that lasers should have the best tracking in the game.

Lasers IRL can track tiny missiles going mach 8, why should laser tracking in Eve be worse?

I think lasers should track better than Autocannons.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.

Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#42 - 2011-12-01 06:44:01 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
And how exactly can a laser beam do explosive and kinetic damage?

Also, I agree with the fact that lasers should have the best tracking in the game.

Lasers IRL can track tiny missiles going mach 8, why should laser tracking in Eve be worse?

I think lasers should track better than Autocannons.


Because of the flux capacitor. Its kind of finicky and doesn't react well to rapid changes in orientation, thus, slower tracking.
Digital Messiah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-12-01 06:54:04 UTC
Lasers are set in their damage type because of a few reasons. Now everyone knows how much I like my lists...
1. It fits their lore rather nicely.
2. As already stated it wouldn't make much sense.
3. Lasers have some of the highest alpha in the sub capital category, only rivaled by 1400mm maelstroms.
4. Lasers have instant ammo change meaning you can apply that awesome alpha at varied ranges with little trade off. "scorch"
5. Lasers take ammo that can last forever.
6. Laser turrets have the highest optimal of any turret in the game.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiteSCKmfdrddGthdjR0R1pYUGo5S0NwaVdtZk02QUE&hl=en_US#gid=0
tech 2 comparison spread sheet ^ (before recent changes to hybrid turrets)

So please answer for me, why you would sacrifice any of these attributes to be able to change damage type? Or are you really that upset people plug their EM hole in pvp for obvious reasons. "More than anything its just a medium to high omni tank anyways".

Something clever

Destru Kaneda
Arzad Police Department
#44 - 2011-12-01 06:57:00 UTC
Prince Kobol
#45 - 2011-12-01 07:32:39 UTC
Cheers for the all the replies and yeah your right.. I just didn't think it through :)

Damn I love this community :)
Acac Sunflyier
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#46 - 2011-12-01 07:35:48 UTC
Majuan Shuo wrote:
Lasers are super heated (thermal) beams of light (electromagnetic) and therefor do thermal and em

kinetic implies mass - lasers have no real mass to speak of

explosive implies a chemical reaction - again not something lasers do



Actually. Light is energy. According to Einstein's theory, energy can do kinetic damage because E=mc2
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2011-12-01 07:37:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Fix My Lasers
1. It fits their lore rather nicely.
- Well, no one cares about lore, it's obvious.

2. As already stated it wouldn't make much sense.
- Just the same as Kinetic and Explosion damage. Explosions caused by Kinetic enegy therefore explosions do Kinetic damage

3. Lasers have some of the highest alpha in the sub capital category, only rivaled by 1400mm maelstroms.
- The highest is 1400mm, no one even close to that

4. Lasers have instant ammo change meaning you can apply that awesome alpha at varied ranges with little trade off. "scorch"
- While ammo changes, domage type doesn't. It works just the same as huge falloff. At longer ranges it misses more therefore makes less damage. Same with the lasers.

5. Lasers take ammo that can last forever.
- Yeah and can't compete with any other type. Moreover no one uses those t1 crystals. T2 is the only way to go.

6. Laser turrets have the highest optimal of any turret in the game.
- You forgot to add that laser turrets have the lowest falloff. On a longer ranges you have to change crystal with less damage to be able to reach someone. I already said that, it works like falloff.

So please answer for me, why you would sacrifice any of these attributes to be able to change damage type?
- Sacrifice what?! None of the above is better then ACs and now Hybrids.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#48 - 2011-12-01 07:39:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=12812

Don't worry it's been on the database for years, I don't think they're gonna implement it now though.
(Both of the other equivalent variations of this T2 ammo for projectiles and hybrids do EM/Therm)

In response to amarr not being able to damage pick....T2 missile-based Khanid ships....

The Drake is a Lie

OmniBeton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2011-12-01 08:54:34 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Amarr get to choose damage types exactly as much as Gallente and Caldari do. All these three races have their turrets locked into two damage types, but have other weaponry that varies damage types. Hybrids are locked into Kin/Therm, but Gallente have drones and Caldari have missiles for choosable damage types.

The Amarr have either one (depending on the ship). The Arbitrator and its T2 variants get very nice drone bonuses (arguably making the Arbitrator sometimes a better drone boat than the Vexor, which is just weird), while some ships like the Malediction, Vengeance, Heretic, Sacrilege, etc focus on short range missiles.

It's really the Minmatar ships that have the freedom to vary damages as they want on the autocannons, but even so it's "impure", usually dealing 3 damage types in weird percentages (and no primarily Kinetic damage type). Minmatar also have limited ability with missiles and drones as well, supporting the whole "flexible" archetype.

Also as was mentioned above me, it makes no sense for lasers to do anything but EM and Thermal. At all.

Edited for clarity


This
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2011-12-01 09:07:25 UTC
If devs would give selectable damage types to AMarr, they had better also give them to Gallente.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#51 - 2011-12-01 09:14:07 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
I am going to go out on a limb and say no on this, Lasers already have the best coverage in the game this should be thier drawback.


yer pretty much this, before tech II ammo was released CCP played with the idea of for instance having gleam with other then thermal and em damage, but it just made them to damn good.

Because lasers are damn good, but not to damn good.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]

Hemmo Paskiainen
#52 - 2011-12-01 09:21:42 UTC
Majuan Shuo wrote:
Lasers are super heated (thermal) beams of light (electromagnetic) and therefor do thermal and em

kinetic implies mass - lasers have no real mass to speak of

explosive implies a chemical reaction - again not something lasers do


Ships suppose to get mechanical failur witch doesnt exist in eve (or i nvr encountered it).

Amarr and Gallente should get more damage types as this is what caldari and winmatar makes stronger

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?

mkint
#53 - 2011-12-01 09:26:05 UTC
Because the short range version of your weapon being able to hit at 70km+ for more DPS than any other weapon system in the game also needs to be able to deal that DPS against whichever resist they choose.

Nerf range by half, nerf damage by at least 30%, then we'll talk.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2011-12-01 09:27:17 UTC
Nyla Skin wrote:
If devs would give selectable damage types to AMarr, they had better also give them to Gallente.


Unlike Amarr ships Gallente ships have lots of drones and ships with drone bonuses. Amarr ships in 95% cases have lasers (not talking about T2 and Khanid stuff).
In PvE Gallente ships are good. Kin/TH damage is very good at pve because none of the rats have very high resists to Kin/TH. Usually one of those damages is the first or secondary damage type to deal.
After the last patch Hybrids are no a different level, I like those changes a lot.

In PVP I already love my damage on a Mega. Although I still use ACs on a Myrm or a Heretic (yes, 2 small ACs).
Anyways, Hybrids or Gallente had poroblems concerning Tracking/Optimal/Falloff and ships themselves, not the damage type.
Still I will happy to see Gallente changing their damage type on hybrid weapons.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-12-01 09:27:50 UTC
All the people complaining about ubber projectile weapons don't play the game.

I use both projectiles and enery weapons. Both are fine.

Most people forget this simple fact:

When fighting with projectile you are always fighting in falloff. This means the dps you deal is not the number in EFT! It is far less, depending on the situation. A lot of my fights when using autocannons happen at optimal + 1x falloff ( = +- disruptor range). At this range your dps is almost 45% of the EFT value.

When fighting with energy weapons you are always fighting at optimal. 100% of EFT value. Don't forget you have Scorch. -> Medium range optimal with Short range dps.

Both weapon systems have their drawbacks and advantages but I think they are ballanced pretty well..

My 0.02isk.

DeBingJos.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-12-01 09:41:06 UTC
Well I just said, Optimal and Falloff are almost the same.
Falloff works like: when you get closer to the target you get less chances to miss which increases DPS. So when you fight somone at the edge on your falloff you loose like 45% of damage, and when target is close to your optimal you get almost 100% damage.

Same thing goes to Lasers: when you use crystals with +% range you loose like 20-80% of damage because of small damage numbers on long range crystals.

The only difference between ACs and Lasers that Lasers do low and stable damage on a range, and ACs do high and random damage on the same range. Overall DPS is almost the same.
Also ACs have a higher Tracking, but I'm not complaining.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2011-12-01 09:53:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Solution :

train minmatar BS and other stuff, train large projectile turret specs.

Here we go you effectively reached the point where you can select your damage types, use 1400mm and 800mm and have that awesome incredible dmg you speak of..

Nothing to see there.

Armor Hacs.

anyone heard about tracking distruptors ? try to use them on those uber 1400mm and 800mm lets see how they doing.
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2011-12-01 09:53:45 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
t Lasers do low and stable damage on a range



Sorry??? Scorch; low and stable???

Scorch has HIGH damage at MEDIUM range.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2011-12-01 10:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Fix My Lasers
DeBingJos wrote:
Fix My Lasers wrote:
t Lasers do low and stable damage on a range



Sorry??? Scorch; low and stable???

Scorch has HIGH damage at MEDIUM range.


Just the same as Barrage.
The difference in dps between Scorch and Barrage is 5%.

edit: Also don't forget, minnie ships can fit more damage mods because they tank with the shield.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#60 - 2011-12-01 10:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Hirana Yoshida
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
...anyone heard about tracking distruptors ? try to use them on those uber 1400mm and 800mm lets see how they doing.

Now try using those TDs on a laser boat .. I assure you it is MUCH better to use a high-falloff weapon when hit with those things. For some easy/safe testing I urge you to run a couple of missions against Blood/Sansha, once the TD spam begins the laser boat is left to tank until it stops while the AC/Arty boat can apply damage (albeit decreased) throughout.

It wouldn't be an issue if CCP had the audacity to actually design the ships based on the racial preferences they laid out at the very beginning.
Amarr is supposedly the second drone race, the only one besides Gallente with bonused drones .. yet the total amount of drones available puts Amarr just a smidgen above Caldari with numerous hulls having less drones (or none at all) than Winmatar's.

In Short: Amarr should be at least equal to Winmatar when it comes to drone spam. Closes the hole left by restricted main weapon damage type just as it does for Gallente.