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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#421 - 2014-04-08 13:08:45 UTC
So - Gila, interesting. Really interesting.

Phantasm, I love. Its going to get (as someone stated) mass meta'd into Phantagasm fleets.

Vigi. fine. Its unique now, its popularity will go up for gate/WH work. Fitting is tight but meh, doable.

Ashimuu - another beauty, web them neut them, theyre dead - who cant like this?

Cynabal - it appears somoene in your team went to the toilet and got a number 2! Came back and presented it as the new Cynabal. Holy crap of all craps. Its got nothing going for it. Look at the above and see how unique these are, and then note how any number of T1 T2 and T3 and faction cruisers beat on the new Cynabal.

Its becoming reality - we know Minmatar are getting nerfed out of existance. Two dull T2 Hacs, single fit wonders. T1 cruisers of pure 'meh'. T3 cruisers of lacklustre damage and projection. Faction cruisers ... one I like.

Please just take away the Cynabal - its truly and utterly pointless, or make it more pointless by giving it a target painting bonus.
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#422 - 2014-04-08 13:14:54 UTC
Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:
Why are you so obsessed to find defined niches for faction ships? F.e. Gila was all round PvP, PvE ship, do what you like with it. Now its becomes more boring, more predictable, less useful. Is it an aim from CCP for players to train for HACS instead of flying pirate cruisers? Sure Phantasm was broken, Ashimmu had its own issues. Cynabal is all round arty/AC ship, flexible, fun to fly, enjoyable solo ship. Vigilant has its web bonuses, cool melt your face close range kinda style. Leave it at that, why break Cynabal and Gila?
Flexibility is the best thing EVE can offer, you dont know what to expect from different ships- makes the game more interesting, would be silly to rule that out.

it seems like it is CCP's goal regarding the pirate ships, currently several are able to fullfill various roles, according to the fiting you put on them.

wich suits well for pirate ships, pirate having limited ressources, should cover several roles with the same hull.

but now, CCP will force them in niche roles, by nerfing them, like they did throught the whole "rebalance", where we had ship that could be unpredictable and very surprising, we now have only one possibility, meaning that now, by simply having the ship type, you will know how it will behave.

this is sad, really really sad, what will be the next step? remove all the mods, make hem built in? so when one fly a drake or a hurricane, everyone will have the exact same thing?

welcome to WOW in space........
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#423 - 2014-04-08 13:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
I can see the merit with going with another drone boat, but generally blood raiders have lasers as part of the lore, so that might be kind of hard to diverge from. Maybe they could just say screw it and throw range and effectiveness for neut/nos together?

The drones have already been added. That was not my idea, that is in the current proposals, go back and have a look at both the cruor and ashimmu drone bays in the proposals. The fact is, the way people use blood raider ships right now is to completely remove the guns and fit a full rack of nuets. That is why the bonus to nuet/nos amount is essential, and also why it is a good buff to this type of fitting to give the ships larger drone bays.

They don't get any drone bonuses, said bonuses which translate to me as being a "drone ship" with that as their primary weapon system. That being said, I would like your idea quite a bit actually if it DID include a drone damage and HP bonus as the amarr bonus, web range as the minmatar bonus, and a neut range bonus as the role bonus with 4, 6, and 8 respectively as the highslots for each of them, all of which could have neuts.
Still; I would be more than happy to go with my initial proposal as it helps with dps quite a bit, even if it does sacrifice some neut power for applied neut range, which I think would be more viable in a pvp setting than straight cap alpha, since range dictation is key. The latter is also why your proposal would work well if it was implemented.

Again, these are not my proposals. They are CCP Rise's proposals, he decided to enhance the drone bay, and I think that is a very good idea.

The only opinion I have is I don't like the Cruor for the reasons mentioned. although I reckon it may become workable, although going to have to test it out on Sisi.

Personally the only ship that need changing badly looks to be the Cynabel right now. I think it needs some kind of unique bonus like all the other pirate ships have. The Ashimmu and the Bhaalgorn are going to be very nice ships though.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#424 - 2014-04-08 13:30:06 UTC
Nash MacAllister wrote:
Just wanted to add, Gila - 2 Drones? WTF is this s$@t? Stop with the bandwidth reductions. All the target has to do is pop 2 drones then wait the forever for the next 2 to get there. There there is the whole theoretical vs actual dps. I would far rather have the chance of 5 drones hitting than 2. And you know, its so easy to manage drones during combat with the crap interface we have. Adjust damage bonus and bandwidth to reflect a full flight of 5 medium drones.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq-7P94pUoI
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#425 - 2014-04-08 13:33:55 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Nash MacAllister wrote:
Just wanted to add, Gila - 2 Drones? WTF is this s$@t? Stop with the bandwidth reductions. All the target has to do is pop 2 drones then wait the forever for the next 2 to get there. There there is the whole theoretical vs actual dps. I would far rather have the chance of 5 drones hitting than 2. And you know, its so easy to manage drones during combat with the crap interface we have. Adjust damage bonus and bandwidth to reflect a full flight of 5 medium drones.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq-7P94pUoI

so true,,, so very true.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#426 - 2014-04-08 13:34:18 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:

And you know what ? I don't even mind if vigilant stays completly how it is now ... i mind other thing - that people like you think it's not broken op. Because at the end of the day - i can just fly my own vigilant and enjoy broken opness.


Yet you don't actually fly it

Yes, she has commented in every pirate faction thread asking for nerfs, or to keep the status quo, yet only appears to fly t1 frigates and the occasional t1 cruiser in FW.


keep in mind every succubus you buy, every phantasm, every worm, every gila , every cruor, every ashimmu and so on may ... come from my stockpile. Especially those ships i mentioned. For example i got around 170 phantasms.

Yes i'm stupid - you are smart. Obviously everyone in EvE was clever enough to stock exactly correct hulls that will get major buffs. And get easy XX billions just for accepting correct contracts/putting correct buy orders.

Because it's not like i can judge if ship deserves nerf or buff.

I sit on over 400 buffed pirate hulls because of luck i bet. I couldn't predict it - because i'm just poor fw scrub that does not know anything about mighty pirate hulls. Not like awesome Medalyn Isis.

I'm sure i have some contacts in CCP who tell me with months in advance what they gonna change in what ship. Because how such clueless person like me could predict such changes and make such amount of money. IMPOSSIBLE , he must be cheater. He knows nothing about pirate ships. This XX billions effortless profit he made ... it is just luck. He must have 0 idea about pirate hulls. It's just coincidence he stocked correct ships in great numbers before changes got announced !


We were talking about actually flying the Vigi in combat tho
Koizumi Atsuchi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#427 - 2014-04-08 13:35:07 UTC
nikon56 wrote:
Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:
Why are you so obsessed to find defined niches for faction ships? F.e. Gila was all round PvP, PvE ship, do what you like with it. Now its becomes more boring, more predictable, less useful. Is it an aim from CCP for players to train for HACS instead of flying pirate cruisers? Sure Phantasm was broken, Ashimmu had its own issues. Cynabal is all round arty/AC ship, flexible, fun to fly, enjoyable solo ship. Vigilant has its web bonuses, cool melt your face close range kinda style. Leave it at that, why break Cynabal and Gila?
Flexibility is the best thing EVE can offer, you dont know what to expect from different ships- makes the game more interesting, would be silly to rule that out.

it seems like it is CCP's goal regarding the pirate ships, currently several are able to fullfill various roles, according to the fiting you put on them.

wich suits well for pirate ships, pirate having limited ressources, should cover several roles with the same hull.

but now, CCP will force them in niche roles, by nerfing them, like they did throught the whole "rebalance", where we had ship that could be unpredictable and very surprising, we now have only one possibility, meaning that now, by simply having the ship type, you will know how it will behave.

this is sad, really really sad, what will be the next step? remove all the mods, make hem built in? so when one fly a drake or a hurricane, everyone will have the exact same thing?

welcome to WOW in space........


WELL said, mate.
CCPs decisions surely lacks consistence, one patch they introduce overpowered tanking modules making any ship beast tanking wessel, giving enormous freedom and disbalance in every fit, now they limit the most fun ships to fly into being fitting 'zombies'. I am sure all these changes should serve a greater purpose in making the game more fun, more acceptable for different training careers- a wider and more complicated universe. For now, i don't see this purpose. I do agree that ships should have their niches, but please don't make them so narrow so that they become useless 'drone like' machines. I am sure there is a way to do it without cutting a number or variety of ships in EVE right now, on the contrary, i can't wait to see different new modules and maybe new ship types to appear in the game, extending our gameplay further.
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#428 - 2014-04-08 13:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: nikon56
Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:


WELL said, mate.
CCPs decisions surely lacks consistence, one patch they introduce overpowered tanking modules making any ship beast tanking wessel, giving enormous freedom and disbalance in every fit, now they limit the most fun ships to fly into being fitting 'zombies'. I am sure all these changes should serve a greater purpose in making the game more fun, more acceptable for different training careers- a wider and more complicated universe. For now, i don't see this purpose. I do agree that ships should have their niches, but please don't make them so narrow so that they become useless 'drone like' machines. I am sure there is a way to do it without cutting a number or variety of ships in EVE right now, on the contrary, i can't wait to see different new modules and maybe new ship types to appear in the game, extending our gameplay further.

actually, the more expansions come, the more it seems CCP is shrinking the gameplay, forcing players to play like they think the game should be played.

thing is: CCP has not even the slightest clue about how to play the game, plus no everyone wants to play the same way.

this game used to have flavor,to require skill, either in SP and as a player, to be able to harvest the best of it.
the fittest / smartest was rewarded, the dumb punished hard.

this used to be, this is not anymore, the more time passes, the more we go away from that concept.

thing is, THIS is what made Eve Online....EvE Online....

you want to improve the game? why not actually adressing the real problems?

drones: you change 3 stats => the whole AI and UI need adressing, not the stats
POS: the damn thing is broken for years, yet NOTHING has ever been done
SOV: this really need an overall rethinking => NOTHING done
Ships balancing:
the few ships who were in real need of balance are supers,titans, BLOPS and rorqual
2 get ignored, the blops recieved a very light update but still need work, and the rorqual is just made useless next summer.

all the iterations you do are touching the wrong thing, often breaking the last few thing that worked (jump animation, exploration...), introduce mass bugs, which never get corrected or introducing items no one wants anyway (how are the siphon and ESS doing?)
that's it, this sums up the last year nd half of CCP's expansions

it is time to wake up and actually address the REAL PROBLEMS of the game.

unfortunately, it seems the real problem is CCP.....
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#429 - 2014-04-08 13:55:38 UTC
nikon56 wrote:
Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:
nikon56 wrote:
Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:
Why are you so obsessed to find defined niches for faction ships? F.e. Gila was all round PvP, PvE ship, do what you like with it. Now its becomes more boring, more predictable, less useful. Is it an aim from CCP for players to train for HACS instead of flying pirate cruisers? Sure Phantasm was broken, Ashimmu had its own issues. Cynabal is all round arty/AC ship, flexible, fun to fly, enjoyable solo ship. Vigilant has its web bonuses, cool melt your face close range kinda style. Leave it at that, why break Cynabal and Gila?
Flexibility is the best thing EVE can offer, you dont know what to expect from different ships- makes the game more interesting, would be silly to rule that out.

it seems like it is CCP's goal regarding the pirate ships, currently several are able to fullfill various roles, according to the fiting you put on them.

wich suits well for pirate ships, pirate having limited ressources, should cover several roles with the same hull.

but now, CCP will force them in niche roles, by nerfing them, like they did throught the whole "rebalance", where we had ship that could be unpredictable and very surprising, we now have only one possibility, meaning that now, by simply having the ship type, you will know how it will behave.

this is sad, really really sad, what will be the next step? remove all the mods, make hem built in? so when one fly a drake or a hurricane, everyone will have the exact same thing?

welcome to WOW in space........


WELL said, mate.
CCPs decisions surely lacks consistence, one patch they introduce overpowered tanking modules making any ship beast tanking wessel, giving enormous freedom and disbalance in every fit, now they limit the most fun ships to fly into being fitting 'zombies'. I am sure all these changes should serve a greater purpose in making the game more fun, more acceptable for different training careers- a wider and more complicated universe. For now, i don't see this purpose. I do agree that ships should have their niches, but please don't make them so narrow so that they become useless 'drone like' machines. I am sure there is a way to do it without cutting a number or variety of ships in EVE right now, on the contrary, i can't wait to see different new modules and maybe new ship types to appear in the game, extending our gameplay further.

actually, the more expansions come, the more it seems CCP is shrinking the gameplay, forcing players to play like they think the game should be played.

thing is: CCP has not even the slightest clue about how to play the game, plus no everyone wants to play the same way.

this game used to have flavor,to require skill, either in SP and as a player, to be able to harvest the best of it.
the fittest / smartest was rewarded, the dumb punished hard.

this used to be, this is not anymore, the more time passes, the more we go away from that concept.

thing is, THIS is what made Eve Online....EvE Online....



I don't understand why you guys are saying this.

There are many different ways to fit and fly all the ships in EvE. Yes, some of the ships have a meta about them (Ishtars and Domi's) but that's not the only way to fly them succesfully.

Try new things. Experiment with the tools you're given. Try to acieve what's not been done before. Innovate. It is still possible
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#430 - 2014-04-08 13:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
not entirely convinced that the bonus offered on the new incarnation of the Gila makes up for the massive loss of versatility it's getting

pre change launch capabilities
5x combat drones (any size) - bonused
5x e-war drone (any size)
5x logistic drone (any size)

post change launch capabilities
4x light drones (unbonused)
2 x medium drones (bonused)
4x light e-war/logistic drone
2x medium e-war/logistic drone

large logistic drone launch capability gone entirely
it's not always about the DPS
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#431 - 2014-04-08 14:01:52 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
nikon56 wrote:
Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:
nikon56 wrote:
Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:
Why are you so obsessed to find defined niches for faction ships? F.e. Gila was all round PvP, PvE ship, do what you like with it. Now its becomes more boring, more predictable, less useful. Is it an aim from CCP for players to train for HACS instead of flying pirate cruisers? Sure Phantasm was broken, Ashimmu had its own issues. Cynabal is all round arty/AC ship, flexible, fun to fly, enjoyable solo ship. Vigilant has its web bonuses, cool melt your face close range kinda style. Leave it at that, why break Cynabal and Gila?
Flexibility is the best thing EVE can offer, you dont know what to expect from different ships- makes the game more interesting, would be silly to rule that out.

it seems like it is CCP's goal regarding the pirate ships, currently several are able to fullfill various roles, according to the fiting you put on them.

wich suits well for pirate ships, pirate having limited ressources, should cover several roles with the same hull.

but now, CCP will force them in niche roles, by nerfing them, like they did throught the whole "rebalance", where we had ship that could be unpredictable and very surprising, we now have only one possibility, meaning that now, by simply having the ship type, you will know how it will behave.

this is sad, really really sad, what will be the next step? remove all the mods, make hem built in? so when one fly a drake or a hurricane, everyone will have the exact same thing?

welcome to WOW in space........


WELL said, mate.
CCPs decisions surely lacks consistence, one patch they introduce overpowered tanking modules making any ship beast tanking wessel, giving enormous freedom and disbalance in every fit, now they limit the most fun ships to fly into being fitting 'zombies'. I am sure all these changes should serve a greater purpose in making the game more fun, more acceptable for different training careers- a wider and more complicated universe. For now, i don't see this purpose. I do agree that ships should have their niches, but please don't make them so narrow so that they become useless 'drone like' machines. I am sure there is a way to do it without cutting a number or variety of ships in EVE right now, on the contrary, i can't wait to see different new modules and maybe new ship types to appear in the game, extending our gameplay further.

actually, the more expansions come, the more it seems CCP is shrinking the gameplay, forcing players to play like they think the game should be played.

thing is: CCP has not even the slightest clue about how to play the game, plus no everyone wants to play the same way.

this game used to have flavor,to require skill, either in SP and as a player, to be able to harvest the best of it.
the fittest / smartest was rewarded, the dumb punished hard.

this used to be, this is not anymore, the more time passes, the more we go away from that concept.

thing is, THIS is what made Eve Online....EvE Online....



I don't understand why you guys are saying this.

There are many different ways to fit and fly all the ships in EvE. Yes, some of the ships have a meta about them (Ishtars and Domi's) but that's not the only way to fly them succesfully.

Try new things. Experiment with the tools you're given. Try to acieve what's not been done before. Innovate. It is still possible

it is still possible, yes, but look at the trend.

expansions after expansions, it become less and less possible to go outside of one or at best two fits /ship, and for every change on ships, the possibilitys are removed for a few ships.

trust me, i do try many many fitts, on many ships, thing is there are less and less possibilitys, and really less than 2 years ago.

2 years ago, when you came acrros a drake, a myrm or a cane for example, you where wondering what kind of fit it was, because some of them could screw you up, while others would be a cakewalk for you to melt.

this is no longer true, you instantly know wether you will stand a chance or not for all those 3 (just a quick example, wich remain true for most of the ships which got "rebalanced")
Stelio K0ntos
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#432 - 2014-04-08 14:02:06 UTC
nikon56 wrote:
Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:
nikon56 wrote:
Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:
Why are you so obsessed to find defined niches for faction ships? F.e. Gila was all round PvP, PvE ship, do what you like with it. Now its becomes more boring, more predictable, less useful. Is it an aim from CCP for players to train for HACS instead of flying pirate cruisers? Sure Phantasm was broken, Ashimmu had its own issues. Cynabal is all round arty/AC ship, flexible, fun to fly, enjoyable solo ship. Vigilant has its web bonuses, cool melt your face close range kinda style. Leave it at that, why break Cynabal and Gila?
Flexibility is the best thing EVE can offer, you dont know what to expect from different ships- makes the game more interesting, would be silly to rule that out.

it seems like it is CCP's goal regarding the pirate ships, currently several are able to fullfill various roles, according to the fiting you put on them.

wich suits well for pirate ships, pirate having limited ressources, should cover several roles with the same hull.

but now, CCP will force them in niche roles, by nerfing them, like they did throught the whole "rebalance", where we had ship that could be unpredictable and very surprising, we now have only one possibility, meaning that now, by simply having the ship type, you will know how it will behave.

this is sad, really really sad, what will be the next step? remove all the mods, make hem built in? so when one fly a drake or a hurricane, everyone will have the exact same thing?

welcome to WOW in space........


WELL said, mate.
CCPs decisions surely lacks consistence, one patch they introduce overpowered tanking modules making any ship beast tanking wessel, giving enormous freedom and disbalance in every fit, now they limit the most fun ships to fly into being fitting 'zombies'. I am sure all these changes should serve a greater purpose in making the game more fun, more acceptable for different training careers- a wider and more complicated universe. For now, i don't see this purpose. I do agree that ships should have their niches, but please don't make them so narrow so that they become useless 'drone like' machines. I am sure there is a way to do it without cutting a number or variety of ships in EVE right now, on the contrary, i can't wait to see different new modules and maybe new ship types to appear in the game, extending our gameplay further.

actually, the more expansions come, the more it seems CCP is shrinking the gameplay, forcing players to play like they think the game should be played.

thing is: CCP has not even the slightest clue about how to play the game, plus no everyone wants to play the same way.

this game used to have flavor,to require skill, either in SP and as a player, to be able to harvest the best of it.
the fittest / smartest was rewarded, the dumb punished hard.

this used to be, this is not anymore, the more time passes, the more we go away from that concept.

thing is, THIS is what made Eve Online....EvE Online....


It gives the impression that Devs are only guided by metadata analyse, no actual gameplay experience. Personally, it seems they are going to kill the Gila. The Phantasm is losing even more DPS, which is already anemic, for speed; last time I checked you cannot ram ships to death. And, most frigates can 1v1 battleships to death, not wolf-packing them 1v1.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#433 - 2014-04-08 14:05:18 UTC
I mostly dislike those changes <.<

Gila could be interesting, most likely going to slap LSE, XLASB, light missiles and a shadow webs on. Looks beasty with some 550dps and dualweb-longpoint. Overall not sure if even that buffed speed is worthy of a pirate cruiser.

Ashimmu looks promising, effectively being the wet dream of a ship for a whormholer if prices remain. 18km NOS-range. longrange-webs to 20km before links and 20km scorch-optimal would've been ideal. Reduced PG though kills the dream of a dps-less loki/neutlegion-hybrid. Meh, close...

Vigilant trades powergrid for a bit more speed, apparently wasn't appreciated that you'd use 1499/1500 PG with the regular cookie cutter with a plate and neutrons :(

Phantasm is orgasmic, no doubt. Looks very over the top considering what has been done to the ashimmu and the cynabal.

Cynabal is pathetic. Till now, the cynabal was the only quick artyplatform for minmatar - since overtaken by the vaga due to better caplife, was the last thing it could shine in (given the 100mn cyna disappeared with the T1-cruiserbuff). Cynabal was good before it was considered in a bad spot facing a single thorax at 2km.


Net yield:

+ Phantasm
+ Smallgang Gila
- Cynabal
- Ashimmu (really, it's a terrible armorrapier or a closerange-neuter with so little PG half the neuts are small ones)
- Vigilants with 250rails or neutron blasters → want a 90% web or better fly a Deimos 8/10 times?


Unsure wether or not I like the proposed changes overall.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#434 - 2014-04-08 14:05:56 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Morning fellows

I've been reading as fast as I can and I'm almost up to most current post but I'm about to be stuck in meetings for a few hours so I wanted to respond to what I'm seeing so far.

  • Everyone seems unhappy with the Cynabal - fair enough. The balance oriented folks here are going to have a sit down this afternoon to discuss options to add some more unique flavor to the line. Failing any large changes, I'll at least look at the powegrid and make sure Artillery is viable.

  • Vigilant powergrid seems to be at least a mild concern so I'll look at that again. I'm not sure there will be changes here because if I remember correctly it was trivial to do 1600 + mwd + at least Ions which is probably a bit generous. Will check it out though.

  • Phantasm is mix of excitement and concern about the tension between the bonuses (guns + speed and sig + shields) which is fair, but I think this is part of what makes it interesting and I'm not really worried about it not being strong enough. Part of how I justified the weird bonus set is by looking at how it performs as a simple MWD/shield skrimisher, which it does quite well.


    • Hopefully back with more in a few hours. Thanks for the response (except you Capqu)


    what about adding 5mb to the gila so it can use a full flight of utlity or small combat drones

    There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

    Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
    Flyinghotpocket
    Small Focused Memes
    Ragequit Cancel Sub
    #435 - 2014-04-08 14:07:31 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Morning fellows

    I've been reading as fast as I can and I'm almost up to most current post but I'm about to be stuck in meetings for a few hours so I wanted to respond to what I'm seeing so far.

  • Everyone seems unhappy with the Cynabal - fair enough. The balance oriented folks here are going to have a sit down this afternoon to discuss options to add some more unique flavor to the line. Failing any large changes, I'll at least look at the powegrid and make sure Artillery is viable.

  • Vigilant powergrid seems to be at least a mild concern so I'll look at that again. I'm not sure there will be changes here because if I remember correctly it was trivial to do 1600 + mwd + at least Ions which is probably a bit generous. Will check it out though.

  • Phantasm is mix of excitement and concern about the tension between the bonuses (guns + speed and sig + shields) which is fair, but I think this is part of what makes it interesting and I'm not really worried about it not being strong enough. Part of how I justified the weird bonus set is by looking at how it performs as a simple MWD/shield skrimisher, which it does quite well.


    • Hopefully back with more in a few hours. Thanks for the response (except you Capqu)

    thanks in advanced for the additional low on the ashimmu it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy that you were thinking ahead that i would need to fit a reactor control unit with the corresponding reduction in powergrid IN ADDITION to the t2 ancillary current router that is on ALL ashimmus currently.

    dont minmatar ships have perfect fitting? why can blood raiders get that ? actually make them somewhat decent instead of utterly garbage. o yeah ill mention this again, needs 2 webs to hold down anything. so yay no point ashimmu strikes again.

    i normally would argue against buffing this peice of garbage but honestly. please buff the cynabal more, i havent seen a cynabal in amarr/minmatar fw for 2 years, killed them all with our vengeances.



    Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
    Cannibal Kane
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #436 - 2014-04-08 14:08:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Morning fellows


  • Vigilant powergrid seems to be at least a mild concern so I'll look at that again. I'm not sure there will be changes here because if I remember correctly it was trivial to do 1600 + mwd + at least Ions which is probably a bit generous. Will check it out though.


    • Hopefully back with more in a few hours. Thanks for the response (except you Capqu)


    With 1600 plate and neutrons plus 10mwd. You need to pimp it already.

    I am starting to think some ships are just being changed for the sake of being changed. If you really want to change the Vigi decrease or remove the web bones.

    "Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
    Koizumi Atsuchi
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #437 - 2014-04-08 14:09:00 UTC
    Spugg Galdon wrote:
    nikon56 wrote:
    Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:
    nikon56 wrote:
    Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:
    Why are you so obsessed to find defined niches for faction ships? F.e. Gila was all round PvP, PvE ship, do what you like with it. Now its becomes more boring, more predictable, less useful. Is it an aim from CCP for players to train for HACS instead of flying pirate cruisers? Sure Phantasm was broken, Ashimmu had its own issues. Cynabal is all round arty/AC ship, flexible, fun to fly, enjoyable solo ship. Vigilant has its web bonuses, cool melt your face close range kinda style. Leave it at that, why break Cynabal and Gila?
    Flexibility is the best thing EVE can offer, you dont know what to expect from different ships- makes the game more interesting, would be silly to rule that out.

    it seems like it is CCP's goal regarding the pirate ships, currently several are able to fullfill various roles, according to the fiting you put on them.

    wich suits well for pirate ships, pirate having limited ressources, should cover several roles with the same hull.

    but now, CCP will force them in niche roles, by nerfing them, like they did throught the whole "rebalance", where we had ship that could be unpredictable and very surprising, we now have only one possibility, meaning that now, by simply having the ship type, you will know how it will behave.

    this is sad, really really sad, what will be the next step? remove all the mods, make hem built in? so when one fly a drake or a hurricane, everyone will have the exact same thing?

    welcome to WOW in space........


    WELL said, mate.
    CCPs decisions surely lacks consistence, one patch they introduce overpowered tanking modules making any ship beast tanking wessel, giving enormous freedom and disbalance in every fit, now they limit the most fun ships to fly into being fitting 'zombies'. I am sure all these changes should serve a greater purpose in making the game more fun, more acceptable for different training careers- a wider and more complicated universe. For now, i don't see this purpose. I do agree that ships should have their niches, but please don't make them so narrow so that they become useless 'drone like' machines. I am sure there is a way to do it without cutting a number or variety of ships in EVE right now, on the contrary, i can't wait to see different new modules and maybe new ship types to appear in the game, extending our gameplay further.

    actually, the more expansions come, the more it seems CCP is shrinking the gameplay, forcing players to play like they think the game should be played.

    thing is: CCP has not even the slightest clue about how to play the game, plus no everyone wants to play the same way.

    this game used to have flavor,to require skill, either in SP and as a player, to be able to harvest the best of it.
    the fittest / smartest was rewarded, the dumb punished hard.

    this used to be, this is not anymore, the more time passes, the more we go away from that concept.

    thing is, THIS is what made Eve Online....EvE Online....



    I don't understand why you guys are saying this.

    There are many different ways to fit and fly all the ships in EvE. Yes, some of the ships have a meta about them (Ishtars and Domi's) but that's not the only way to fly them succesfully.

    Try new things. Experiment with the tools you're given. Try to acieve what's not been done before. Innovate. It is still possible


    In EVE experiments are the most fun thing to do, but when you try many different things, you can clearly notice that some ships do better job than others, me personally is in love with Cyna, now, it does not matter how much i would like to, some ships do a better job at different things than Cyna does, so you would move on and choose those ships to fly. In eve successful means thing that works, but not a thing that i would like to work, thats why over time some fittings get top ratings and ppl who want to achieve sth choose them.
    CCP Rise
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #438 - 2014-04-08 14:14:02 UTC
    No update on changes yet, but I wanted to respond to a few more things.

    On the Vigilant fitting (and similar fitting related comments) - as someone mentioned above, fitting a ship is not meant to be a matter of fitting all the biggest things. There are certainly times when the fitting allocation is too restrictive and we don't want that either, but for ship-fitting gameplay to be good it must include personalization/strategy/tradeoffs. That's what we're trying to accomplish.

    There's some sentiment (as there often seems to be) that these changes somehow pigeonhole ships into roles that we have explicitly defined rather than allowing for more open or generalized ships. I would say that while some roles have shifted (no more Sentry Drones for the Gila being the best example), Pirate Faction ships remain a set of very good generalists. We have an opportunity, because of their flavor and cost, to give them some very interesting capabilities that go a bit outside the box, which is great, but we haven't tried to restrict them to a specific environment at all. The Gila will still have plenty of PVE application and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find examples of lost capability for the rest of these ships resulting from the proposed changes.

    Sorry for the typos that were in the OP, hopefully I've removed the last of them now but if you see more let me know.

    @ccp_rise
    Redjon Gilead Aerten
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #439 - 2014-04-08 14:33:04 UTC
    Regarding the Cynabal, Why all the work on the ship? From I see CCP Rise is saying that

    "All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile."

    Why do we have to give the Cynabal a unique flavor? at the moment it fills the role of a perfect generalized pirate ship. its not spectactular DPS or anything, but its flexible, fast and agile, Why can't THAT be its unique role?


    When it comes to designing, in pretty much almost every area the Hippocratic oath is incredibly applicable, First you do no harm.


    If it ain't broke, just leave it alone, then no time is wasted anywhere.

    The agility nerf seems to be against the entire point of the ship in the first place *shrugs* just the opinion of a newbie here.
    Ghaustyl Kathix
    Rising Thunder
    #440 - 2014-04-08 14:36:21 UTC
    The Ashimmu's fitting changes make me nervous, but I love the idea. I'm not sure how useful it'll be as a solo ship, but I can think of a really great use for it.