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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Brutarian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#381 - 2014-04-08 11:59:04 UTC
Stop the f***ing nerf of all my ships!

1. nerfing my Tengu
1. nerfing the damage of my drones (Ishtar)
3. now nerfing my Cyna-fittings

WTF?

Why should i skill month for month if you nerf everything.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#382 - 2014-04-08 12:03:34 UTC
Morning fellows

I've been reading as fast as I can and I'm almost up to most current post but I'm about to be stuck in meetings for a few hours so I wanted to respond to what I'm seeing so far.

  • Everyone seems unhappy with the Cynabal - fair enough. The balance oriented folks here are going to have a sit down this afternoon to discuss options to add some more unique flavor to the line. Failing any large changes, I'll at least look at the powegrid and make sure Artillery is viable.

  • Vigilant powergrid seems to be at least a mild concern so I'll look at that again. I'm not sure there will be changes here because if I remember correctly it was trivial to do 1600 + mwd + at least Ions which is probably a bit generous. Will check it out though.

  • Phantasm is mix of excitement and concern about the tension between the bonuses (guns + speed and sig + shields) which is fair, but I think this is part of what makes it interesting and I'm not really worried about it not being strong enough. Part of how I justified the weird bonus set is by looking at how it performs as a simple MWD/shield skrimisher, which it does quite well.


    • Hopefully back with more in a few hours. Thanks for the response (except you Capqu)

    @ccp_rise
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #383 - 2014-04-08 12:05:26 UTC
    Rise, the grid on the Ashimmu is of concern as well.

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Naomi Anthar
    #384 - 2014-04-08 12:05:46 UTC
    Medalyn Isis wrote:
    King Fu Hostile wrote:
    Naomi Anthar wrote:

    And you know what ? I don't even mind if vigilant stays completly how it is now ... i mind other thing - that people like you think it's not broken op. Because at the end of the day - i can just fly my own vigilant and enjoy broken opness.


    Yet you don't actually fly it

    Yes, she has commented in every pirate faction thread asking for nerfs, or to keep the status quo, yet only appears to fly t1 frigates and the occasional t1 cruiser in FW.


    keep in mind every succubus you buy, every phantasm, every worm, every gila , every cruor, every ashimmu and so on may ... come from my stockpile. Especially those ships i mentioned. For example i got around 170 phantasms.

    Yes i'm stupid - you are smart. Obviously everyone in EvE was clever enough to stock exactly correct hulls that will get major buffs. And get easy XX billions just for accepting correct contracts/putting correct buy orders.

    Because it's not like i can judge if ship deserves nerf or buff.

    I sit on over 400 buffed pirate hulls because of luck i bet. I couldn't predict it - because i'm just poor fw scrub that does not know anything about mighty pirate hulls. Not like awesome Medalyn Isis.

    I'm sure i have some contacts in CCP who tell me with months in advance what they gonna change in what ship. Because how such clueless person like me could predict such changes and make such amount of money. IMPOSSIBLE , he must be cheater. He knows nothing about pirate ships. This XX billions effortless profit he made ... it is just luck. He must have 0 idea about pirate hulls. It's just coincidence he stocked correct ships in great numbers before changes got announced !
    Ganthrithor
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #385 - 2014-04-08 12:08:02 UTC
    TrouserDeagle wrote:
    Ganthrithor wrote:
    Ideas:

    Change the Vigilant's web strength bonus to a point/scram range bonus. This solves the problem of the Vigilant's web bonus being a poor compliment to the ship's other attributes: the web was useless for kiting fits


    serp ships are supposed to be special actually-good blaster brawlers. I think it's dumb that they can kite. also, please get good, 90% web is crazy broken for kiting.


    The Vigilant doesn't need a 90% web to apply its damage while blaster-brawling. A scram + 60% web lets you track things plenty-well with medium blasters.

    90% webs aren't crazy broken for kiting, they're crazy broken for 1v1 kiting. Really, they're crazy broken for 1v1 fighting in frigates, since frigates are the only things that are going to lock other things quick enough for force a 1v1. What are you going to force a 1v1 in with your Vigilant? Anything big enough for you to lock it before it could warp is also going to be slow enough that you wouldn't need a 90% web to kite it in your 2.5km/s cruiser. Anything small enough to require a 90% web for you to hold range on them won't engage your Vigilant, and you won't be able to force a 1v1 because they'll just warp off or burn out of web range before you can lock them.

    If you try using a Vigilant's web to kite a hostile gang, well, good luck... it's a ship that has well under 20k ehp in a kiting fit, and you can only slow one close-range opponent at a time. Best of luck getting yourself un-tackled.
    Medalyn Isis
    Doomheim
    #386 - 2014-04-08 12:08:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Morning fellows

    I've been reading as fast as I can and I'm almost up to most current post but I'm about to be stuck in meetings for a few hours so I wanted to respond to what I'm seeing so far.

  • Everyone seems unhappy with the Cynabal - fair enough. The balance oriented folks here are going to have a sit down this afternoon to discuss options to add some more unique flavor to the line. Failing any large changes, I'll at least look at the powegrid and make sure Artillery is viable.

  • Vigilant powergrid seems to be at least a mild concern so I'll look at that again. I'm not sure there will be changes here because if I remember correctly it was trivial to do 1600 + mwd + at least Ions which is probably a bit generous. Will check it out though.

  • Phantasm is mix of excitement and concern about the tension between the bonuses (guns + speed and sig + shields) which is fair, but I think this is part of what makes it interesting and I'm not really worried about it not being strong enough. Part of how I justified the weird bonus set is by looking at how it performs as a simple MWD/shield skrimisher, which it does quite well.


    • Hopefully back with more in a few hours. Thanks for the response (except you Capqu)

    Sounds good. And glad to hear you are looking at those things.

    The Phantasm does seem to be strange, although I later realised that this might have been intentional, so you just seemed to confirm that in the response above, and to be honest it fits your style. I do like the amount of options the current layout gives despite all the contradictions in its fittings. It can literally be tanked in every way pretty successfully now. Although when you say you balanced it as a MWD/Shield ship, I am guessing you meant AB/Shield ship right?

    Anyway, I'm becoming a little more optimistic about the Sansha changes now, hopefully the Nightmare will follow in this regards with extra high slot being transferred to low, and perhaps an additional slot added, allowing an option to choose either armour or shield tank, and to extenuate the specific aspects of the ships bonuses as we wish.

    Also not sure if you can answer this Rise, but why are the webs being left at 90%? Would it be possible that we will see a general nerfing of web strength across the board in future?
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #387 - 2014-04-08 12:09:22 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Morning fellows

    I've been reading as fast as I can and I'm almost up to most current post but I'm about to be stuck in meetings for a few hours so I wanted to respond to what I'm seeing so far.

  • Everyone seems unhappy with the Cynabal - fair enough. The balance oriented folks here are going to have a sit down this afternoon to discuss options to add some more unique flavor to the line. Failing any large changes, I'll at least look at the powegrid and make sure Artillery is viable.

  • Vigilant powergrid seems to be at least a mild concern so I'll look at that again. I'm not sure there will be changes here because if I remember correctly it was trivial to do 1600 + mwd + at least Ions which is probably a bit generous. Will check it out though.

  • Phantasm is mix of excitement and concern about the tension between the bonuses (guns + speed and sig + shields) which is fair, but I think this is part of what makes it interesting and I'm not really worried about it not being strong enough. Part of how I justified the weird bonus set is by looking at how it performs as a simple MWD/shield skrimisher, which it does quite well.


    • Hopefully back with more in a few hours. Thanks for the response (except you Capqu)


    How about taking another look at the blood raider line? Here's a good idea I had earlier that I'll reiterate that I think you might like a lot:
    1, 2, 3 guns on cruor, ashimmu, and bhaal respectively with a 400% damage buff. Keep high slots so you have 3,4, and 5 free highs for nos after dropping neut/nos amount bonus in favor of nos/neut range. This way you keep the dps, and slightly less direct neut/nos power, but with range for both nos/neut and web range so the two actually work together. 80% range for frig, 40 for cruiser, and 20 for battleship per level. There's your balanced blood raider line.
    Naomi Anthar
    #388 - 2014-04-08 12:11:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Anthar
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Morning fellows

    I've been reading as fast as I can and I'm almost up to most current post but I'm about to be stuck in meetings for a few hours so I wanted to respond to what I'm seeing so far.

  • Everyone seems unhappy with the Cynabal - fair enough. The balance oriented folks here are going to have a sit down this afternoon to discuss options to add some more unique flavor to the line. Failing any large changes, I'll at least look at the powegrid and make sure Artillery is viable.

  • Vigilant powergrid seems to be at least a mild concern so I'll look at that again. I'm not sure there will be changes here because if I remember correctly it was trivial to do 1600 + mwd + at least Ions which is probably a bit generous. Will check it out though.

  • Phantasm is mix of excitement and concern about the tension between the bonuses (guns + speed and sig + shields) which is fair, but I think this is part of what makes it interesting and I'm not really worried about it not being strong enough. Part of how I justified the weird bonus set is by looking at how it performs as a simple MWD/shield skrimisher, which it does quite well.


    • Hopefully back with more in a few hours. Thanks for the response (except you Capqu)


    Thanks for fast response. You are right on Cynabal ... R.I.P Arty Cyna if this PWG change comes online.

    @Vigilant you are completly right , mwding around with 1600 plate and neutrons on this super strong hull was more than it should be. Glad we agree there. You can still fly with mwd + 1600 + ions now with some effort in fitting department.

    @ Phantasm - give it a go. Nice concept and i fully support it. Not just me as you can read aswell.

    Gotta say you are working with stuff a bit faster now ... which also pleases me. Time to undock some hulls ;).

    Edit : a ninja complain : as someone mentioned on this page - Ashimmu pwg nerf is a tad too big. Because 200 x 1.25 is more than removing single medium neut/nos. It is not huge concern - i did check that mostly stuff can still fit - with maybe ACR rig. But still it would be cool if we could get away with maybe ~~140 pwg nerf (175 exactly with 1.25 modifier). Which would be fair as ship was not meant to receive any nerfs.
    Medalyn Isis
    Doomheim
    #389 - 2014-04-08 12:18:19 UTC
    Naomi Anthar wrote:
    Medalyn Isis wrote:
    King Fu Hostile wrote:
    Naomi Anthar wrote:

    And you know what ? I don't even mind if vigilant stays completly how it is now ... i mind other thing - that people like you think it's not broken op. Because at the end of the day - i can just fly my own vigilant and enjoy broken opness.


    Yet you don't actually fly it

    Yes, she has commented in every pirate faction thread asking for nerfs, or to keep the status quo, yet only appears to fly t1 frigates and the occasional t1 cruiser in FW.


    keep in mind every succubus you buy, every phantasm, every worm, every gila , every cruor, every ashimmu and so on may ... come from my stockpile. Especially those ships i mentioned. For example i got around 170 phantasms.

    Yes i'm stupid - you are smart. Obviously everyone in EvE was clever enough to stock exactly correct hulls that will get major buffs. And get easy XX billions just for accepting correct contracts/putting correct buy orders.

    Because it's not like i can judge if ship deserves nerf or buff.

    I sit on over 400 buffed pirate hulls because of luck i bet. I couldn't predict it - because i'm just poor fw scrub that does not know anything about mighty pirate hulls. Not like awesome Medalyn Isis.

    I'm sure i have some contacts in CCP who tell me with months in advance what they gonna change in what ship. Because how such clueless person like me could predict such changes and make such amount of money. IMPOSSIBLE , he must be cheater. He knows nothing about pirate ships. This XX billions effortless profit he made ... it is just luck. He must have 0 idea about pirate hulls. It's just coincidence he stocked correct ships in great numbers before changes got announced !

    Haha, very nice if you expect me to believe that. Why do you fly around in FW scrub fittings yet stockpile hundreds of Faction ships.

    Unlike you I actually have lived in multiple areas of NPC null sec and do so at the moment, so there is zero chance I would be buying any of your stockpile of ships. Anyway, I will not derail this thread further, but the fact is that from your killboard history you seem to be a FW scrubs. You may have an alt, and I may be wrong, but from your posting I think I am right.
    Azn Assassin
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #390 - 2014-04-08 12:19:18 UTC
    Quote:
    ========================================================================================

    GILA

    Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
    10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

    Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
    4% bonus to all shield resistances

    Role Bonus:
    500% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket max velocity)


    Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 4L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers(+1)
    Fittings: 670 PWG(+40), 400 CPU(+50)
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3200(+12) / 2200(-125) / 2490
    Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1400(+25) / 530000 (-1250) / 2.85
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / .66 / 9600000 / 8.78s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(-105) / 100(-300)
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 58km (+3km) / 285 / 7
    Sensor strength: 22
    Signature radius: 145(-5)

    ========================================================================================


    This is by far one of the biggest jokes I've ever seen in this game. Seriously going to make this ship a pure frigate killer? Granted the Gila is nothing right now compared to the VNI (Vexor Navy Issue) buts till find something better for it use wise instead of throwing this piece of garbage at us. Drop it down to 250% and give them a full fight of drones and enlarge that drone bay, right now its going to be so easy to counter this ships DPS its going to be a complete joke.

    You go with this, people will see a Gila land on grid, ignore it's missiles and completely annihilate its drones and its game over for it every time and its going to be far easier to take out this ships drones then it will be the VNI's drones. Least Heavies have more EHP the VNI can run double webs if need be, but this thing doesn't have that option being a shield tank.

    Bare in mind it takes some missile ships one volley of light missiles to take out a drone, so this thing can be quickly countered by most of its targets. Give this thing more drones and increase the amount of drones it can launch at once. Having two super hitting drones doesn't do it much good.

    Save carriers do not let this design decision stand
    Rabbit P
    Nuwa Foundation
    Fraternity.
    #391 - 2014-04-08 12:19:38 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:

    ASHIMMU
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 208(+33) / 3.6 / 11010000 / 5.01s



    rise , you correct the mass but not the agility Lol
    nikon56
    UnSkilleD Inc.
    #392 - 2014-04-08 12:21:25 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Morning fellows

    I've been reading as fast as I can and I'm almost up to most current post but I'm about to be stuck in meetings for a few hours so I wanted to respond to what I'm seeing so far.

  • Everyone seems unhappy with the Cynabal - fair enough. The balance oriented folks here are going to have a sit down this afternoon to discuss options to add some more unique flavor to the line. Failing any large changes, I'll at least look at the powegrid and make sure Artillery is viable.

  • Vigilant powergrid seems to be at least a mild concern so I'll look at that again. I'm not sure there will be changes here because if I remember correctly it was trivial to do 1600 + mwd + at least Ions which is probably a bit generous. Will check it out though.

  • Phantasm is mix of excitement and concern about the tension between the bonuses (guns + speed and sig + shields) which is fair, but I think this is part of what makes it interesting and I'm not really worried about it not being strong enough. Part of how I justified the weird bonus set is by looking at how it performs as a simple MWD/shield skrimisher, which it does quite well.


    • Hopefully back with more in a few hours. Thanks for the response (except you Capqu)

    judging by all the recent nerf, features you destroyed, gameplay you made no viable anymore, issues you keep ignoring, my wallet just phoned me that 15€/month is probably a bit generous
    Jenn aSide
    Soul Machines
    The Initiative.
    #393 - 2014-04-08 12:24:46 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Hexatron Ormand wrote:
    So there are the cruisers! Waited for them quite some time. Next thing i am looking forward to is the posting about the battleships.


    Going to give these a few days and hopefully post the BS near the end of the week.


    If anyone here is smart, they will stockpile popcorn right now, because no matter how well thought out and benign the changes are, that thread is going places. Lots of "nightmares for ISD" invoking places Twisted
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #394 - 2014-04-08 12:26:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
    Medalyn Isis wrote:

    You are pretty dense aren't you. Someone even helpfully laid out the maths for you which I quoted in the previous post. I think you should stay away from balance discussion as you are clearly a liability, and your incessant babbling on these forums is beginning to hurt my eyes,


    Seriously though..."I think you should stay away from balance discussion as you are clearly a liability, and your incessant babbling on these forums is beginning to hurt my eyes."
    For one, I have Aspergers, and fixating on ship mechanics in this game is a very important part of why I love playing this game, so responding in such an offensive manner is both extremely offensive and bewildering to me since I did not make any personal attacks on you.

    Also, after going over it again, I see that you are saying that the 100% bonus gets applied first to the two guns together, and then the 25% bonus applies to each separately. it totals up to 50% when you think of it that way, but I am a little rusty on that concept, so I would like it if you could explain it more thoroughly to me since I'm guessing I'm not the only one who is slightly confused with how this works.
    Warmonger Murderalt
    Shady Business Inc.
    #395 - 2014-04-08 12:29:05 UTC
    Just adding my opinion to the pile for feedback.

    Phantasm seems interesting, but I don't have enough experience to say much.
    Ashimmu seems like a solid improvement. The web range instead of effectiveness is questionable. I can see how it'd help it get into neut range but once into neut range it isn't nearly as useful as an effectiveness bonus would be.
    The Gila confuses me. Before, I couldn't see a good reason to use it instead of an Ishtar. Now it's an extremely niche and limited setup ship that still maybe kinda could compete with the Ishtar in a few very specific situations.
    I dislike the vigilant changes. Which really should just be called a nerf. I tried about half a dozen fits and found that I was always too tight on powergrid but had lots of excess CPU. It didn't matter overly much because I had *just* enough powergrid with two implants to make two different fits work and the performance made me happy, especially since the third fitting implant slot was used for cpu that let me fit the Cynabal exactly the way I wanted, so that I could fly both ships with one clone fitted with a total of 3 implants. After these changes it'll *need* three implant slots.
    Which brings me to the Cynabal. The Vagabond and the Cynabal were similar enough to be compared but different enough to give me reason to fly the Cynabal. With the implants used for the vigilant I only needed to add one more implant to get this thing *barely* fit exactly the way I wanted it to be fit for it to be a more desirable choice, and then I had a couple other options for using it in different situations if I felt like switching up how I flew it. With the nerf bat beating the stuffing out of this thing it'll become the worthless pirate boat of this round until the next rebalance years down the road.

    With the current proposed changes I would haul the Cynabal to Jita as fast as I can to sell it which would buy a couple of rounds of the implants I'll need to fit the already suffering powergrid of the vigilant, which is my favorite out of the pirate cruiser lot at the moment. I might pick up a Vagabond to see if it pleases me. I couldn't see a reason to own a Gila over an Ishtar but I was seriously considering training for an Ishtar, which means nothing would change there. I'd buy a Phantasm and Ashimmu just to see how they feel in combat after the changes, and would reserve judgement until I got to play bumper ships with them against some of my friends' builds before I decide about them. The changes for those two are radical and interesting.

    That about sums up my immediate feelings after reading the proposed changes.
    Xavier Azabu
    Half Empty
    xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
    #396 - 2014-04-08 12:29:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Azabu
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Morning fellows

    I've been reading as fast as I can and I'm almost up to most current post but I'm about to be stuck in meetings for a few hours so I wanted to respond to what I'm seeing so far.

  • Everyone seems unhappy with the Cynabal - fair enough. The balance oriented folks here are going to have a sit down this afternoon to discuss options to add some more unique flavor to the line. Failing any large changes, I'll at least look at the powergrid and make sure Artillery is viable.


    • Yaaay! Just keep in mind that we're basically worried about it staying competitive at all with the other ships that have been buffed. It's a cool looking ship and one of the signature iconic Eve vessels of small gang warfare, imo. Please keep it competitive.

    Quote:

  • Vigilant powergrid seems to be at least a mild concern so I'll look at that again. I'm not sure there will be changes here because if I remember correctly it was trivial to do 1600 + mwd + at least Ions which is probably a bit generous. Will check it out though.

    • Just wondering - why can't it do Neutrons? Are you worried about it overlapping with the role of the Deimos? I just feel like the way that it was was the logical inbetween of the Daredevil and the Vindicator. I drop down a ton of isk for this thing, so why not?

    I'd suggest giving the Vigilant a different bonus than the Falloff, if you change it into a ship that uses ions+1600+mwd.
    With all the Thoraxes, Moas, and Ruptures out there it would be nice for the Vigilant to be weird like the Phantasm. Maybe a scan res buff would at least allow it to be a gatecamp champ. Really, this ship like the Cynabal needs something to make it stand out and stay competitive with all the buffs to the normal cruisers and AHACs. Please think this one through.

    Quote:

  • Phantasm is mix of excitement and concern about the tension between the bonuses (guns + speed and sig + shields) which is fair, but I think this is part of what makes it interesting and I'm not really worried about it not being strong enough. Part of how I justified the weird bonus set is by looking at how it performs as a simple MWD/shield skrimisher, which it does quite well.

    • Hopefully back with more in a few hours. Thanks for the response (except you Capqu)


    I think that the Phantasm is quite cool. If anything scan res is the only issue. It's going to be a weird ship that can be fun to fit with a unique role that people will want to try out. Please think of the Vigilant in the same way...
    Mike Whiite
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #397 - 2014-04-08 12:29:37 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:


    GILA

    Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
    10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

    Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
    4% bonus to all shield resistances

    Role Bonus:
    500% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket max velocity)


    Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 4L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers(+1)
    Fittings: 670 PWG(+40), 400 CPU(+50)
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3200(+12) / 2200(-125) / 2490
    Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1400(+25) / 530000 (-1250) / 2.85
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / .66 / 9600000 / 8.78s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(-105) / 100(-300)
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 58km (+3km) / 285 / 7
    Sensor strength: 22
    Signature radius: 145(-5)




    Someone is trying very hard to make the new Rapid light launcher a succes. Big smile
    TrouserDeagle
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #398 - 2014-04-08 12:29:53 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Morning fellows

    I've been reading as fast as I can and I'm almost up to most current post but I'm about to be stuck in meetings for a few hours so I wanted to respond to what I'm seeing so far.

  • Everyone seems unhappy with the Cynabal - fair enough. The balance oriented folks here are going to have a sit down this afternoon to discuss options to add some more unique flavor to the line. Failing any large changes, I'll at least look at the powegrid and make sure Artillery is viable.

  • Vigilant powergrid seems to be at least a mild concern so I'll look at that again. I'm not sure there will be changes here because if I remember correctly it was trivial to do 1600 + mwd + at least Ions which is probably a bit generous. Will check it out though.

  • Phantasm is mix of excitement and concern about the tension between the bonuses (guns + speed and sig + shields) which is fair, but I think this is part of what makes it interesting and I'm not really worried about it not being strong enough. Part of how I justified the weird bonus set is by looking at how it performs as a simple MWD/shield skrimisher, which it does quite well.


    • Hopefully back with more in a few hours. Thanks for the response (except you Capqu)


    cynabal's problem is that autos are really bad

    vigilant holy **** the web bonus please fix, and swap the hybrid bonus for a blaster bonus

    phantasm - there's nothing wrong with the shield and sig thing, only massive idiots disagree. I know everything is broken with links and/or snakes, but come on, this thing, with that and deadspace AB? just why
    Sparkus Volundar
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #399 - 2014-04-08 12:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sparkus Volundar
    Hi Rise,

    At 3.6, the agility for the Ashimmu looks like a typo. Was it something like 0.6?

    .
    Medalyn Isis
    Doomheim
    #400 - 2014-04-08 12:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
    Catherine Laartii wrote:
    Medalyn Isis wrote:

    You are pretty dense aren't you. Someone even helpfully laid out the maths for you which I quoted in the previous post. I think you should stay away from balance discussion as you are clearly a liability, and your incessant babbling on these forums is beginning to hurt my eyes,

    Aside from the oddly hostile response, I am genuinely confused how sansha ships are NOT getting a damage buff, when it is as clear as day that an extra 25% damage buff got totaled up with its role bonus. I want to know how the heck that works because apparently I'm forgetting how 125% and 150% applied bonuses are the same.

    Seriously though..."I think you should stay away from balance discussion as you are clearly a liability, and your incessant babbling on these forums is beginning to hurt my eyes."
    For one, I have Aspergers, and fixating on ship mechanics in this game is a very important part of why I love playing this game, so responding in such an offensive manner is both extremely offensive and bewildering to me since I did not make any personal attacks on you.
    Secondly, even though you laid out some nice math for me, I still legitimately have no idea how, as I just stated, a 125% effectively applied bonus and a 150% bonus are the same. Because that is exactly what you are saying and trying to pull out of your hat.

    They are not saying RoF or how it applies differently in some abstract way. it is simple, straight directed damage multiplied by a percentage. I legitimately have no clue how you could possibly construe that as anything other than it is, unless you see a need to prove you are right regardless of the situation. Which you're kind of not, because what I outlined was simply a missing numerical value that wasn't outlined explicitly by the dev.

    Well the reason I was being harsh was because you were ignoring what everyone was telling you. But anyway, since you asked nicely, I will try to lay out the maths in a different way and hopefully it will make sense.

    Old Version

    100% bonus - which equals 2x multiplier to damage
    25% bonus - which equals a 1.25x multiplier to damage

    As bonuses are multiplied the resultant bonus is 2 x 1.25 = 2.5 (150%)