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What does the Phantasm even do?

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Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#441 - 2014-04-03 18:22:45 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Speculation backed by facts about a ship meant to be the class equivalent.


Just because the succubus gets a speed buff doesn't mean the phantasm will too.


If a dramiel gets nerfed does that also mean the cynabal and mach get the same nerf? No they don't (and didn't),

So what you said was pure speculation.



They're all of the same flavour though.
Dramiel is faster than usual frigs.
Cynabal is faster than usual cruisers.
Machariel is faster than usual Battleships.

Cruor has neuts & webs.
Ashimmu has neuts & webs.
Bhaalgorn has neuts & webs.


It is very likely that the Phantsam will get an AB Speed bonus.
And if not, it will still most likely be something that will increase it's mobility.



Sure it might get an AB bonus.. and it would make sense...

but saying that it will most likely get a base speed boost also is pure speculation.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#442 - 2014-04-03 18:23:56 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Speculation backed by facts about a ship meant to be the class equivalent.


Just because the succubus gets a speed buff doesn't mean the phantasm will too.


If a dramiel gets nerfed does that also mean the cynabal and mach get the same nerf? No they don't (and didn't),

So what you said was pure speculation.

You should probably read the pirate frigate thread a bit closer. Rise heavily implies that all sansha ship s are getting a bonus to afterburners.


You should probably read this thread a bit closer, I never said the pantasm won't get an AB bonus.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#443 - 2014-04-03 18:54:04 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Speculation backed by facts about a ship meant to be the class equivalent.


Just because the succubus gets a speed buff doesn't mean the phantasm will too.


If a dramiel gets nerfed does that also mean the cynabal and mach get the same nerf? No they don't (and didn't),

So what you said was pure speculation.

You should probably read the pirate frigate thread a bit closer. Rise heavily implies that all sansha ship s are getting a bonus to afterburners.


You should probably read this thread a bit closer, I never said the pantasm won't get an AB bonus.

Bottom line is that an increase in base speed isn't a wild theory.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
VanKenMar
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#444 - 2014-04-05 12:44:33 UTC
Hello!
The AB bonus is not an issue at all, without boost of the rest Phanatsm stats will change nothing..
well..lets do some example.

You are on the grid with a cruiser (does not matter which one), with an AB You will get a scram and can not hold him on the scram range with that speed, even if u start to scram him, Your scan ress dont let You point him before he burn off and shoot You from the distance, then he will control the fight and can warp off if things goes bad.

The biggest problem with Phanatsm are the stats of that Beauty, not the bonus on it.
You could be flexible with the fit and tactics, if, again, if basic stats allows it.

No speed, no scan ress, no align time, no cap, one less slot, this is the Phanatsm problem..bonus want change much.
Battlingbean
Wings of the Dark Portal
#445 - 2014-04-06 09:02:59 UTC
Ah this thread is still alive. Excellent.

VanKenMar is right. The more I think about the faction the more I realize the current bonuses are actually fine. Shields and lasers are already unique and Amarr/Caldari. The faction just needs stats and layouts that are not completely awful at everything. The Phantasm needs:
- A legitimate capacitor.
- Better speed.
- Equal slots.
- Equal shield regeneration.
- Maybe a dronebay? 25m3.
Dsparil Mal
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#446 - 2014-04-06 09:51:53 UTC
Cynabal has a speed boost already. Vigilant has the Web boost and dps and the ashimmu has the neuts. The phantasm needs a shield boost. Cruiser with mad tank.

Erotica 1 for CSM 9!
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#447 - 2014-04-06 15:26:29 UTC
Needs a shield boost? No way in hell. Once this thing gets the 100% AB speed bonus, nothing will be hitting it hard.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#448 - 2014-04-07 02:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
I think an overall boost to the phantasm stats and maybe the AB bonus would be welcome.

More drones, better slots, faster, fitting, and a better capacitor.



However.....

An AB bonus will be absolutely worthless on a nightmare.

So what are they going to do about that?
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#449 - 2014-04-07 17:46:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucine Delacourt
Nightmare with an AB bonus, extra low and buffed capacitor and shield regen would be interesting. Definitely better than the existing Nightmare for PvP atleast.



Edit: Phantasm Changes are up a base speed was massively buffed.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#450 - 2014-04-07 19:15:41 UTC
I think the phantasm is going to be pretty damn op with 5 lows in 10mn or 100mn ab setups. Now it can fit a 100mn without destroying it's dps.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#451 - 2014-04-09 17:41:34 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
I think the phantasm is going to be pretty damn op with 5 lows in 10mn or 100mn ab setups. Now it can fit a 100mn without destroying it's dps.

The problem with the 100MN AB fit is that with the 100% speed bonus you're getting ~2701 m/s without links or implants (according to CCP Rise) which sounds really nice except that keep in mind you will have no agility to speak of. I can't remember if they changed the Phantasm's agility in the F&I thread but with its current stats it has an align time of over 37 seconds with max skills and without anything other than the AB fit to it. So both of these stats can be improved.

The issue is that at that speed with agility that bad it will be a nightmare trying to stay in point/gun range. I was a big fan of the 100MN Oracle before its agility was nerfed but that because large pulses with scorch have optimal over 50 km making it possible to hold damage on target. I'm, shall we say, less than convinced that it will be easy to prevent people using your overshoot to break point range.

I think the better option would be the 10MN fit with snakes and/or skirmish links as all you're getting there is a big move in the right direction for your critical damage mitigation ratio of speed to signature.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#452 - 2014-04-09 18:02:35 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
I think the phantasm is going to be pretty damn op with 5 lows in 10mn or 100mn ab setups. Now it can fit a 100mn without destroying it's dps.

The problem with the 100MN AB fit is that with the 100% speed bonus you're getting ~2701 m/s without links or implants (according to CCP Rise) which sounds really nice except that keep in mind you will have no agility to speak of. I can't remember if they changed the Phantasm's agility in the F&I thread but with its current stats it has an align time of over 37 seconds with max skills and without anything other than the AB fit to it. So both of these stats can be improved.

The issue is that at that speed with agility that bad it will be a nightmare trying to stay in point/gun range. I was a big fan of the 100MN Oracle before its agility was nerfed but that because large pulses with scorch have optimal over 50 km making it possible to hold damage on target. I'm, shall we say, less than convinced that it will be easy to prevent people using your overshoot to break point range.

I think the better option would be the 10MN fit with snakes and/or skirmish links as all you're getting there is a big move in the right direction for your critical damage mitigation ratio of speed to signature.



I too am leaning towards the 10mn fit. With a little pimp you will be able to crank a pretty high, non scram-able speed. Throw a nano or 2 in the lows, some snakes, halos or crystals in your head, and some skirmish/siege links and you should be able to tank/mitigate a fair amount of damage. Obviously we will have to see how it actually plays but I have high hopes.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#453 - 2014-04-10 07:00:13 UTC
I should add that if you are fitting an AB to a phantasm instead of an MWD you won't lose a chunk of your capacitor which will help quite a bit with the phantasm's poor cap especially since the capacitor is getting a bit of a buff.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#454 - 2014-04-10 07:02:00 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
I think the phantasm is going to be pretty damn op with 5 lows in 10mn or 100mn ab setups. Now it can fit a 100mn without destroying it's dps.

The problem with the 100MN AB fit is that with the 100% speed bonus you're getting ~2701 m/s without links or implants (according to CCP Rise) which sounds really nice except that keep in mind you will have no agility to speak of. I can't remember if they changed the Phantasm's agility in the F&I thread but with its current stats it has an align time of over 37 seconds with max skills and without anything other than the AB fit to it. So both of these stats can be improved.

The issue is that at that speed with agility that bad it will be a nightmare trying to stay in point/gun range. I was a big fan of the 100MN Oracle before its agility was nerfed but that because large pulses with scorch have optimal over 50 km making it possible to hold damage on target. I'm, shall we say, less than convinced that it will be easy to prevent people using your overshoot to break point range.

I think the better option would be the 10MN fit with snakes and/or skirmish links as all you're getting there is a big move in the right direction for your critical damage mitigation ratio of speed to signature.



I too am leaning towards the 10mn fit. With a little pimp you will be able to crank a pretty high, non scram-able speed. Throw a nano or 2 in the lows, some snakes, halos or crystals in your head, and some skirmish/siege links and you should be able to tank/mitigate a fair amount of damage. Obviously we will have to see how it actually plays but I have high hopes.

Republic fleet or Shadow Serpentis look pretty good for the cost going deadspace REALLY boosts the cost for not a huge amount more benefit.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#455 - 2014-04-10 17:14:16 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Nightmare with an AB bonus, extra low and buffed capacitor and shield regen would be interesting. Definitely better than the existing Nightmare for PvP atleast.



Edit: Phantasm Changes are up a base speed was massively buffed.



TBH anything is better than the current PVP status of the nightmare.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#456 - 2014-04-10 17:31:40 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Nightmare with an AB bonus, extra low and buffed capacitor and shield regen would be interesting. Definitely better than the existing Nightmare for PvP atleast.



Edit: Phantasm Changes are up a base speed was massively buffed.



TBH anything is better than the current PVP status of the nightmare.




For PvP it will still end up roughly on par with a Fleet Pest but with better projection. Not sure that it will be worth the isk.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#457 - 2014-04-10 17:36:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Nightmare with an AB bonus, extra low and buffed capacitor and shield regen would be interesting. Definitely better than the existing Nightmare for PvP atleast.



Edit: Phantasm Changes are up a base speed was massively buffed.



TBH anything is better than the current PVP status of the nightmare.




For PvP it will still end up roughly on par with a Fleet Pest but with better projection. Not sure that it will be worth the isk.


Yeah of course it won't be worth it.

All pirate faction BS have a role and perform the best at it, besides the NM.

Vindi: Best brawler.

Mach: Best kiter.

Bhaal: Best neuter.

Rattle: Best tanker....

Nightmare: Best looking???
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#458 - 2014-04-10 18:14:07 UTC
Vindi is the best looking. The Nightmares projection is underrated. It's not as good as a Senty/Cruise Paper Rattler but still very good.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#459 - 2014-04-10 18:21:39 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Vindi is the best looking. The Nightmares projection is underrated. It's not as good as a Senty/Cruise Paper Rattler but still very good.


Mach can project any damage type without cap, has better alpha, and goes faster.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#460 - 2014-04-10 18:24:30 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Vindi is the best looking. The Nightmares projection is underrated. It's not as good as a Senty/Cruise Paper Rattler but still very good.


Mach can project any damage type without cap, has better alpha, and goes faster.



It can't project it's full DPS at the same range though. People get it twisted, falloff is not the same as optimal. Obviously the Mach is a better ship in every other way imaginable. All I said was the NM projects it DPS well. That is all.