Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I know this has been brought up before, but it's not yet on the list of common proposals. It usually gets shot down due to stupid arguments and people thinking it doesn't make sense. These are usually people who don't know alot about stuff.

I also know this idea will have mixed reception. Many people feel that limited damage types are a balancing factor of lasers. Or they consider it a trade off for having "unlimited ammo". But that's not really the case. Lasers do have to change out crystals, and they use an inordinate amount of cap. So with that being accepted, lets look at how kinetic/explosive lasers would actually work.

From wikipedia: "Laser ablation is the process of removing material from a solid (or occasionally liquid) surface by irradiating it with a laser beam. At low laser flux, the material is heated by the absorbed laser energy and evaporates or sublimates. At high laser flux, the material is typically converted to a plasma. Usually, laser ablation refers to removing material with a pulsed laser, but it is possible to ablate material with a continuous wave laser beam if the laser intensity is high enough."

And for the nerds out there: https://what-if.xkcd.com/13/

From this we can already see the balancing factor of a kinetic/explosive laser: higher capacitor use. On top of this, we could add a shorter range and potentially more crystal damage.

Here's some tentative stats I drew up.

T2 Ablative L
Adapted from a standard multifreqency crystal, this crystal has variable focusing properties, controlled directly by the ship's computer. By analyzing the optical properties of enemy hulls, the crystal can be adapted to ensure that the majority of the energy from the laser is absorbed into the material, with minimal energy escaping as reflected light. The downside to this is that the laser is almost completely ineffective against shields. The delicate crystalline structures used in the manufacture of this advanced crystal degrade with use, eventually causing it to shatter.
50% Reduced Optimal Range
30% Reduced Falloff Range
25% Increased Capacitor Use
Note: This ammunition can only be used by large tech level II Pulse Lasers.

EM damage: 0
Thermal Damage: 5
Kinetic Damage: 30
Explosive Damage: 15
Volatility: 100%
Volatility damage: .00050 hp

T2 Concussive L
Adapted from a Veldspar mining crystal, the Concussive laser crystal is an early prototype weapon designed specifically for breaking apart chunks of tritanium from the hulls of ships and structures. The extremely high energy energy of this laser requires it to use considerably more capacitor, and greatly reduces the effective focusing range. The delicate crystalline structures used in the manufacture of this advanced crystal degrade with use, eventually causing it to shatter.

75% reduced optimal range.
25% Increased Capacitor Use
Note: This ammunition can only be used by large tech level II Beam Lasers.

EM damage: 0
Thermal Damage: 15
Kinetic Damage: 5
Explosive Damage: 28
Volatility: 100%
Volatility damage: .00050 hp

EDIT: It was kindly pointed out that crystals like this already exist in the database:

I based these off of the short range variants, with very slightly less total damage. A long range variant could also work.

The point isn't to overbalance the game. As these would do less damage and be harder to keep cap stable, it's effectively the same as the caldari kinetic bonus, except in this case it comes in the form of a detriment to unfavored damage types.

The point here is to give amarr players more options and to not restrict and limit engagements against amarr players. You shouldn't be able to guarantee the fight against them simply by fitting thermal/em hardeners.

the same way u can guarantee a fight against gal and caldari with thermal and kinetic?

and u mitigate a significant amount of, ill say potential, minmatar damage by tanking exp, kin.

ur assuming EM and Thermal are the worst damage types. A lot of ppl will say Kinetic is the worst damage type, and thats not even strictly true.

T2 bro

The reason for the "extra flavors" of projectile ammunition is because projectiles operate primarily in falloff range (due to their low optimal range relative to other weapon systems) and have a relatively lower damage modifier compared to blasters (which blasters use to compensate for their extremely short optimal and falloff range)... so the "applied" damage of projectile weapons is usually much less than than their "on-paper" damage.

I agree with Daichi Yamato... if you are going to harp about Amarr not having damage type selection then you need to revisit ALL the other races that are equally constrained to their specific damage types (even with drones... it's either Gallente, Minmatar, Curator, or GTFO... even in PvE).


As for that comment about people setting their ships up to specifically counter the EM and Thermal damage that lasers deal... that's just being hyperbolic.
It is theoretically possible, yes (as it would be for all ship types minus Minmatar)... but almost all PvP ships fit omni-resistances because you almost NEVER encounter a a single racial type (and you would be stupid to assume you would).

I'm extremely dubious about adding damage selectability to lasers, particularly if it swings the damage type away from EM. Remember that lasers 'reload' instantly... so if you were able to pick and choose damage types, they'd be way more flexible than missiles. And selectable damage is actually the one thing missiles are supposed to be best at.

Really, the advantages of selectable damage are so great that I can't see this happening without also invoking a general nerf to lasers, and I don't feel that nerf is needed.

It's been a while since I've been in nullsec blobs, but last time I was down there it was always one doctrine against another: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=16942427#involvedPilots

Dunno how much that's changed but an army of drakes against an army of amarr battleships will end up with both sides fitting specific hardeners only.

Also, let's not forget highsec duels, where I can fit specific hardeners and then only pick fights with ships that have bonuses to those same damage types.

That's not what I'm suggesting.
Rather, I'm suggesting a way to add an element of unpredictability into doctrine vs. doctrine and 1 vs 1 involving lasers.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But duels are part of the game now, and iteration on established features is important. I don't particularly care for over-balance, but I want to see new variations on existing situations.
And players will find ways to add variance to a situation regardless of ammunition type. This is why you see occasional 1400's on an abaddon or beam lasers on a rokh. And that is always an option that comes with its own disadvantages.

But why should I have to do something so unusual, when that could be built into the ammunition, penalty and all? This ammunition would encourage players to experiment, without making them use fits that make everyone go "wat".