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System Defence Boats / System Control Ships

Author
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-04-05 23:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Aalysia Valkeiper
Before I begin, let me state I am still new to EvE. I just recently passed my first year playing.

I have never even seen a Titan, Dreadnought, Carrier, or Super-Carrier in game, so the concept I am proposing is just an idea. In fact, I expect a lot of flaming to occur and players to simply say it is impossible and stupid.

Please read and consider it, ok?

History (both factual and fictional) is replete with ships and other vehicles that have been... optimized... to defend their home territory. The systems and abilities considered un-needed for this defence are removed and replaced by systems and abilities more 'in tune' with the perceived needs.

Considering this, I have come up with two 'inventions' designed to enhance defence of the home 'system', but sacrifice the ability to leave the system being defended. Thus, the ship MUST be built or invented in the system it is intended to defend, since it lacks the ability to jump out and is too large to use a stargate.

On both ship types, the jump drives of the original ships (Dreadnoughts and Titans) are removed. In their place, the appropriate carrier abilities (carriers for dreadnoughts, super-carriers for titans) are installed.

Thus, the dreadnoughts are re-classified as 'System Defence Boats' (SDB) and the titans are re-classified as 'System Control Ships' (SCS).

Please note that I said nothing about the warp drives or power reactors. These obviously could be left alone or enhanced, due to the extra room freed up by removing the jump drives and associated systems.

There are also several systems on the ships (especially the titans) that become almost un-needed without the jump drives.

Let the flame wars begin.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#2 - 2014-04-05 23:07:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Since sov isn't an area of the game I have anything to do with, I won't comment on the merits of your proposal.

However, this thread should have been posted in Features and Ideas Discussion.
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-04-05 23:12:15 UTC
??? Features and Ideas?

shows how new I am to this. I wonder if a moderator can move it?
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#4 - 2014-04-06 01:03:01 UTC
i'm trying to figure out why a dread would need an SMA if it can't jump, and sov systems only have 1 station each, so...
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#5 - 2014-04-06 01:07:47 UTC
The problem in nullsec at the moment is defending is a lot easier than attacking someone.

Therefore, you believe the solution is to make super defensive ships?

If the problem was the other way around tying the ships to a certain area of space would be pretty interesting, but the problem is already that defenders have too many advantages.

The best idea I heard so far was from CCP with like "Tech 2 Titans" or some such that were REALLY good, but only 3 of them could exist.

Stuff like that, literally hard coded limited into the game, which players can steal off each other is a good conflict driver.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#6 - 2014-04-06 02:26:17 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
The problem in nullsec at the moment is defending is a lot easier than attacking someone.

Therefore, you believe the solution is to make super defensive ships?

If the problem was the other way around tying the ships to a certain area of space would be pretty interesting, but the problem is already that defenders have too many advantages.

The best idea I heard so far was from CCP with like "Tech 2 Titans" or some such that were REALLY good, but only 3 of them could exist.

Stuff like that, literally hard coded limited into the game, which players can steal off each other is a good conflict driver.


Very true indeed. A corp member and myself just returned from -0.3 Thrukker Tribe Space after running a Class 6 Level 3 Site in destroyers.

On the way back we came across a few bubbled gates with no one on them.

If protecting null space is nothing more than throwing a bubble or two up then how much involvement and fun is that?

Read my proposed idea in the Features and Idea Section titled - Protecting Null Space the Fun Way.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#7 - 2014-04-06 03:08:41 UTC
One big flaw in your whole thing: every ship in EVE is piloted (unless abandoned). A ship that's needed to defend a system thus must be flown by a person and logged in/out. Why would anyone coffin a character in something that can't leave the system it's in?

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Teyr Schmitt
An Errant Venture
#8 - 2014-04-06 06:02:28 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
The problem in nullsec at the moment is defending is a lot easier than attacking someone.

Therefore, you believe the solution is to make super defensive ships?

If the problem was the other way around tying the ships to a certain area of space would be pretty interesting, but the problem is already that defenders have too many advantages.

The best idea I heard so far was from CCP with like "Tech 2 Titans" or some such that were REALLY good, but only 3 of them could exist.

Stuff like that, literally hard coded limited into the game, which players can steal off each other is a good conflict driver.


Very true indeed. A corp member and myself just returned from -0.3 Thrukker Tribe Space after running a Class 6 Level 3 Site in destroyers.

On the way back we came across a few bubbled gates with no one on them.

If protecting null space is nothing more than throwing a bubble or two up then how much involvement and fun is that?

Read my proposed idea in the Features and Idea Section titled - Protecting Null Space the Fun Way.



.....that made my brain hurt. it took me several seconds to realize that you meant a null sec site.

I spent a little while trying to figure out how the hell you'd managed to run a C6 site in destroyers.


But, OP, what you are proposing actually exist (just not for supercaps).

Except they're all in Wspace. C1-3 any caps built cannot be removed (in C1s BS+ can't be removed). C4-6 caps can move in and out but only like 6 max if it's a virgin Wormhole.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-04-06 07:10:10 UTC
An environment similar, but not the same as, what you are describing exists in many wormholes. You can build a capital ship in a wormhole that you normally couldn't get one into in order to get a home field advantage. It makes defending very, very, easy.

Defending nullsec sov is already really easy because of timers. This would make it even easier, which would pretty much stagnate the region. If anything, timers need to be reduced or even removed in order to make invading more viable. Currently, the sov holder just plans a fleet for when the timer ends 24 hours later and shows up with a massive blob to defend it.

Remove that day of free mobilization, and you'd change things.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Pubbie Spy
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-04-06 11:17:31 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:

On the way back we came across a few bubbled gates with no one on them.

If protecting null space is nothing more than throwing a bubble or two up then how much involvement and fun is that?

Read my proposed idea in the Features and Idea Section titled - Protecting Null Space the Fun Way.


You are under the mistaken impression that nullsec empires care about random neuts flying around
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#11 - 2014-04-06 11:18:49 UTC
Assuming you are using Starfleet Battles as your references for those titles, supercarriers are already SCSs

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Juan Diolosa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-04-06 11:28:29 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Assuming you are using Starfleet Battles as your references for those titles, supercarriers are already SCSs

I thought the same thing when I saw his post.

PS: SFB has been my favorite space shoot'em up game for decades. Love me some Kzinti.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#13 - 2014-04-06 14:54:50 UTC
Juan Diolosa wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Assuming you are using Starfleet Battles as your references for those titles, supercarriers are already SCSs

I thought the same thing when I saw his post.

PS: SFB has been my favorite space shoot'em up game for decades. Love me some Kzinti.


There's an awful lot of SFB hidden in EvE.

I play the new streamlined Federation Commander version, much easier to teach to new players and very pretty.

Its probably no suprise I like the Orions, they always spoke to me Blink

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#14 - 2014-04-06 17:23:20 UTC
Perhaps CCP should create dead zones in space where Alliances have to build their system gates and manage them similar to how a POS is managed.

An alliance could put up their own gate set a password for it that would only allow alliance members to pass through.

In order for anyone else to pass through the system using the gate they would have to use a cloaked hacking ship specifically designed to hack the gate.

How the gate would be hacked would be similar to the Sansha Incursion site where you have to hack several remote repair towers in order to finish the site.

Each alliance placed gate would have four security towers that would have to be placed within 3 AU of the gate either at a planet, moon, belt, or space. The security tower would anchor just like a Mobile Depot would so placing it would be rather easy to achieve so as to not establish definite points of location.

Each security tower would require 5 units of Security Tower fuel per hour to operate at a cost of 25k per block. If the fuel runs out of a tower then the towers ability to keep the gate locked would be reduced by 25% giving the hacker a 25% chance to hack the gate at the gate itself. Each time a security tower goes down after the first tower is either hacked or runs out of fuel would reduce the gates security locking mechanism by 15%, 10% and 5% for a 55% chance that the gate could be hacked and opened by a hacker ship hacking the gate.

The security towers would be placed in the system where the gate was located as the ships would jump into the system that is being locked down. This means that the gate could not be placed in security space above 0.0.

Hacking the gate itself with all four security towers online would take some time to achieve even if the pilots skills were all level five and they had the best hacking modules on their ship.

...but a 25% chance to hack the gate without taking the towers down would still be present due to human error in computer network programming and security protocol not covering every aspect of protecting the network from hackers.

The complexity of the gate security system would be dependent upon the type of towers that the alliance uses to secure their gate with.

Based on the Hacking Mini-Game seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9HZJzxU8sw is how the actual hacking of a tower or gate would take place.

Security Tower -There would be three types of security towers that an alliance could put up to protect their gates with.

Security Tower I - 300 miIISK : would have two security breach response systems if the hacker trips the wrong node
Response System I: Broadcasts a system wide message that someone is attempting to hack a Security Tower located at X location. Response System II: Emits a field similar to that of a Smart Bomb at a radius of 10km from the tower to de-cloak the hacking ship. Five fuel blocks consumed per hour.

Security Tower II - 450 milISK: would have three security breach response systems if the hacker trips the wrong node
Response System I: Broadcasts a system wide message that someone is attempting to hack a Security Tower located at X location. Response System II: Emits a field similar to that of a Smart Bomb at a radius of 15km from the tower to de-cloak the hacking ship. Response System III:The size of the weapon systems would be small or medium with medium weapon security towers costing an additional 150 milIsk per tower. One of the four types of weapon systems based on POS weapon batteries would activate on the tower that would then either drive the hacker away or destroy the hacker ship within a range of 5km for small and 10km for medium weapons. Ten fuel blocks consumed per hour as well as medium or large ammo needing to be placed within the 75 m3 ammo bay.

Security Tower III - 550 milISK : would have five security breach response systems if the hacker trips the wrong node
Response System I: Broadcasts a system wide message that someone is attempting to hack a Security Tower located at X location. Response System II: Emits a field similar to that of a Smart Bomb at a radius of 20km from the tower to de-cloak the hacking ship. Response System III: The size of the weapon systems would be small or medium with medium weapon security towers costing an additional 250 milIsk per tower.One of the four types of weapon systems based on POS weapon batteries would activate on the tower that would then either drive the hacker away or destroy the hacker ship within a range of 10km for small and 15km for medium weapons. Response System IV: Warp Scramble turret would lock onto the closest ship not designated as friendly which would be established using the same guidelines for POS security to scramble the ship and keep it in place until reinforcements arrived. Warp Scramble strength would be +2 and have a range of 12km. Twenty five fuel blocks consumed per hour as well as medium or large ammo needing to be placed within the 50 m3 ammo bay.

Null space has become a breeding ground for the lazy gate camper.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#15 - 2014-04-06 17:40:37 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:

lazy gate camper.


lol wow all that text and thats your punchline?

Really?

I dont gate camp becuse its too much work

What hoops do you want me to jump through before IM doing enough to satisfy your need for :effort:?

Perhaps youd like me to type in a 28 digit pass code before a launch a bomb at a buzzard at a nullsec hacking site too?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Rainbow Dash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-04-06 17:53:54 UTC
The reason you see specialized defenses in real life is chokepoints. There are built with the knowledge that if your enemy wants to attack you, they have to pass through or by your defenses. In eve, you could just skip by these systems and pick the rest of the empire apart piecemeal, before hitting the fortified systems.

In wormholes, when you control one or two systems, it would make sense to build these. After all, the enemy has to come to your hole to try to fight you. For nullsec empires though, locking a ship to one system when you hold hundreds of systems, just makes no sense.