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Make so that rigged ship can be repackaged and transported without losing the rigs

Author
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#1 - 2011-12-01 00:32:43 UTC
Make so that rigged ship can be repackaged and transported without losing the rigs. Either repackage it as ordinary ship, and make rig transportable as another item, but bound to that ship so it can be attached only to it, or maybe repackage it together with rig, with rig name on a ship appearing maybe in brackets beside the ship name.

Another solution is to make rigs reusable and detachable from the ship obviously. But then Apoc rigs would fit Apocs only, and rig names would need to reflect that.

Sole purpose of this is to make rigged ship transportable.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2011-12-01 02:06:55 UTC
It's called the Orca.

Alternatively, courier contract unpackaged ships can be hauled by a freighter for things too large for the Orca's 400k m3 ship maintenance bay.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#3 - 2011-12-01 04:17:20 UTC
though, there are solutions as Velicitia mentions, i think the idea would be usefull. unless it would affect the market, but dont see that would be too much of an issue.

this will probably not happen though, because i know that ccp likes the idea of rigs not being removable. thats why the warning pops up when you install them. and packaging them with a ship is one of the more common reasons for needing to remove a rig in the first place. and hence the risk, and the larger ships to transport. (i realize my imput on this was entirely pointless...)
Bear
Stralow
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-12-01 06:48:33 UTC
Sry, but thats just crap. That you can't repackage rigged ships is an relict from the past of eve, nothing more. It doesn't make any sense at all, never was, never will. Rigs get part of the ship, so if you repackage the, ship, they just get repackaged with it. The ship doesn't even grow at it mass if I'm correct if you put in rigs.

Thats just one good example of : "what would it be the other way around.":
If you could prepackage rigged ships since the beginning of eve, it would be absolutely normal for everybody. Now one day, someone come to this forum with the idea: "hey lets get rigs destroyed, if you repackage the ship!. Otherwise, you have to make a stupid courier contract to transport ist so that you just can't load just 2 normal battleships in one freighter."

Everybody would get a big laugh and move on.

i say we take off and nuke the whole site from orbit. it's the only way to be sure

Rina Asanari
CitadeI
#5 - 2011-12-01 07:12:16 UTC
Rigs are definitely different than modules, and I'm OK with the idea that those custom modifications won't survive repackaging and reassembly back to standard specs.

Take something apart for transport and reassemble it later on. It is not quite the same, and if it's some precision equipment you HAVE to do some re-calibration after assembly.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#6 - 2011-12-01 07:17:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
Rina Asanari wrote:
Rigs are definitely different than modules, and I'm OK with the idea that those custom modifications won't survive repackaging and reassembly back to standard specs.

Take something apart for transport and reassemble it later on. It is not quite the same, and if it's some precision equipment you HAVE to do some re-calibration after assembly.


I proposed another option, rig to be packaged in another item when you repackage the ship, but to be bound to that ship, so it can't be sold or used on the other ship even of the same type.

Sorry, good rig is just too expensive to be lost by repackaging, and only thing the current system does is make transport of the rigged ship harder. For good reason? I don't think so.

Even rig recalibration can be added, with separate BPCs for it, to restore rig to functional state, though I'm not for it. Point is preserving the rig or greatest amount of its value when repackaging and transporting a ship.

Thanks for the support peeps.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-12-01 07:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Simple...

Allow rigs to be packaged with the ship, but they increase the m3 of the packaged ship..

Rina wrote:
Rigs are definitely different than modules, and I'm OK with the idea that those custom modifications won't survive repackaging and reassembly back to standard specs.

Take something apart for transport and reassemble it later on. It is not quite the same, and if it's some precision equipment you HAVE to do some re-calibration after assembly


You're correct. Rigs are different than modules.... Modules can be removed from the ship, rigs cannot.

However, that's really the only difference.

Just because rigs can't be removed from the ship doesn't mean the ship can't be repackaged with the rigs still on it.

These ships are designed with rig slots, therefore, ships are already calibrated for rigs before they are even unpackaged.

In order to say that the ships can't be repackaged with rigs, then you have to say that the ships aren't designed for rigs, which would mean they wouldn't have rig slots.

Even if the rigs don't go into the center of the ship somewhere, then they attach to the exterior of the ship.

If that's the case, then it falls in line with the start of this post, which is that a packaged ship with rigs just has a larger m3 volume.



Oh, and it would mean that rigged ships can be sold through contracts and actually transported to different locations without having to actually fly it there.
Rina Asanari
CitadeI
#8 - 2011-12-01 10:44:16 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
In order to say that the ships can't be repackaged with rigs, then you have to say that the ships aren't designed for rigs, which would mean they wouldn't have rig slots.


That's exactly what I tried to say. That skill is named "Jury Rigging" for a reason, as in "someone makes modifications (hence the name in the market overview) to the ship the manufacturer never intended to be possible, let alone safe to do, and are most probably hazardous". For those modifications you're already using items which are brittle at best (remember, the rigs are made from items which already were in a ship) and supposedly don't survive being taken apart again when disassembling a ship and bringing it back to specs for repackaging and later reassembly or sale.

I'm wondering, why don't Minmatar start out with a bonus on Jury Rigging?

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#9 - 2011-12-01 12:27:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
bad idea.

repackaged ship means fresh new ship as it comes from the market.
Ships arent equipped with rigs when they come from the market, so the idea contradicts basic game fundamentals.

You can transport rigged ships via transport contracts, or carrier. Well latter isnt possible in high sec, is one of the drawbacks of high sec, accept that.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#10 - 2011-12-01 12:29:20 UTC
Wouldn't this just open up a logistical problem with peeps now free to cart hefty ships around without any real cost?

This limits the movement of rigged ships to a limited number of transport ships and should stay.

Want to move a rigged ship, fly it, pop it in a ORCA (or similar) or pay the cost of the replacement rigs at the other end.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#11 - 2011-12-01 12:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
and ppl FFS stop asking for things which are already available in game but not accessible for you due to intentional limits!!!
Rigged ships can be shipped in carriers SMB easily, if you want that, f*ck off from high sec or accept NOT HAVING THAT FEATURE!
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#12 - 2011-12-01 12:41:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
I don't ask anything from you, and the thread isn't even intended for you, but the CCP.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#13 - 2011-12-01 13:17:00 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
I don't ask anything from you, and the thread isn't even intended for you, but the CCP.


then, why dont you just write an e-mail to CCP directly, instead of posting it in a public forum?!?
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#14 - 2011-12-01 13:20:08 UTC
Limitations are good mmmmkay?

Joe Risalo, stop trying to think stuff needs to be balanced around lore~.

The limitations on rigs are to force you to MAKE CHOICES.

Its more fun that way.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#15 - 2011-12-01 13:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
@Robert

Because that's the purpose of this part of the forum. Anybody who posted suggestion here in the forum did it just because there is a chance that game developers will notice, not because of us gamers.

@Salazar

If limitations are fun, I'm sure such limitations could be made to the game to make you go crazy trying to play it. You can think my idea is bad, but if you want to explain your opinion, though nobody forces you to explain it, try to make sense.

This change wouldn't make the game easier. Not a single aspect of the game. It would be just a convenience.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#16 - 2011-12-01 13:24:46 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
@Robert

Because that's the purpose of this part of the forum. Anybody who posted suggestion here in the forum did it just because there is a chance that game developers will notice, not because of us gamers.


if you post bad ideas in a forum, expect bad response. That easy.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#17 - 2011-12-01 13:52:06 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

These ships are designed with rig slots, therefore, ships are already calibrated for rigs before they are even unpackaged.

In order to say that the ships can't be repackaged with rigs, then you have to say that the ships aren't designed for rigs, which would mean they wouldn't have rig slots.

Even if the rigs don't go into the center of the ship somewhere, then they attach to the exterior of the ship.
.


this is where you're wrong. There are "slots" for a gameplay perspective so the game can handle (and to an extent, limit) what it is you're doing.

RL analogies suck ... but think of it this way...

Take a sportscar, stock from the dealer. It has so much horsepower, fuel economy, whatever.
It has "rig slots" for you to use up by replacing stock parts with aftermarket ... e.g. better exhaust, bigger carburettor (well, on an older car), etc to get more performance out of it.

The car wasn't necessarily designed to have those aftermarket parts installed... but you're perfectly capable of installing them, given the right know-how.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#18 - 2011-12-01 14:01:31 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

These ships are designed with rig slots, therefore, ships are already calibrated for rigs before they are even unpackaged.

In order to say that the ships can't be repackaged with rigs, then you have to say that the ships aren't designed for rigs, which would mean they wouldn't have rig slots.

Even if the rigs don't go into the center of the ship somewhere, then they attach to the exterior of the ship.
.


this is where you're wrong. There are "slots" for a gameplay perspective so the game can handle (and to an extent, limit) what it is you're doing.

RL analogies suck ... but think of it this way...

Take a sportscar, stock from the dealer. It has so much horsepower, fuel economy, whatever.
It has "rig slots" for you to use up by replacing stock parts with aftermarket ... e.g. better exhaust, bigger carburettor (well, on an older car), etc to get more performance out of it.

The car wasn't necessarily designed to have those aftermarket parts installed... but you're perfectly capable of installing them, given the right know-how.



And you can't transport these aftermarket modifications, and the car is stuck in non-transportable form because of them and need ten times the volume to store? You see, your argument works both ways, and it just shows how much current rig mechanics is flawed.

Aina O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#19 - 2011-12-01 14:06:52 UTC
Why not get the ability to wrap anything in a courier package without creating a contract for it? Just putting something in pink present paper and its ready to be hauled, though the volume should stay the same.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#20 - 2011-12-01 14:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
you can still put the car on a trailer and move it somewhere. You dont "repackage" (i.e. take apart) cars for transport, so much for rl analogies, why they suck.
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