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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#201 - 2014-04-01 20:55:25 UTC
Querns wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

You and your kind only look at new players as cattle to exploit.

Wrong.

From our founding, we have focused ourselves, laser-like, on the New Player Experience. We are its largest champions. (There's also a lot of us as well.) Your assumption is that NPE can only exist in highsec. This is wrong. We have spent the better part of a decade making nullsec accessible to our new players.

A personal example: I, myself, having only played eve for a little under four years, spent absolutely no time in highsec when I first started, podding myself to the recently-acquired VFK-IV station under 48 hours of my start date. Check my employment history if you don't believe me.


Yeah, whatever.
I always believe everything a goon tells me.
That has worked so well, for so many.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#202 - 2014-04-01 20:56:08 UTC
Sounded to me like they were going to buff T1 sentry damage to T2 levels, not sure where people are complaining about a damage nerf...
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2014-04-01 20:56:24 UTC
Changes look great. One thing that perhaps wasn't mentioned but being looked at or maybe could be looked at is the issue with light drones rubber banding on inties and other super fast ships?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#204 - 2014-04-01 20:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Querns wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

You and your kind only look at new players as cattle to exploit.

Wrong.

From our founding, we have focused ourselves, laser-like, on the New Player Experience. We are its largest champions. (There's also a lot of us as well.) Your assumption is that NPE can only exist in highsec. This is wrong. We have spent the better part of a decade making nullsec accessible to our new players.

A personal example: I, myself, having only played eve for a little under four years, spent absolutely no time in highsec when I first started, podding myself to the recently-acquired VFK-IV station under 48 hours of my start date. Check my employment history if you don't believe me.


Yeah, whatever.
I always believe everything a goon tells me.
That has worked so well, for so many.

What other organization in eve puts out something like our newbie guide?

e: LINK WAS BROKEN AUGH sec lemme find a working one

ee: :sigh: I can't find a link quickly. Going to have to request it from the guy who made it.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#205 - 2014-04-01 21:01:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
i like the drone avionics and adv avionics idea ... but the E-war skill should be added as a separate skill then....

add T2 e-war drones so training it to lv5 has a purpose .. then rebalance e-war drones too they need a lot of help

also perhaps increase the range bonuses .. 65km with max skills atm is very lame for sentries .. i can't tell my bouncers too shoot someone upto their optimal range without adding multiple DLA's ... which use up so much CPU it just nerfs the fit entirely..

e.g. my ishtar has 3 DLA's even with HAC level 5 i can still target further than i can tell my drones too shoot..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Joker Dronemaster
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2014-04-01 21:02:47 UTC
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
While you're at it, please make the Drone Control Unit a passive module.


I spoke with CCP Arrow about this exact change at last years EVE Vegas.

Any blues can feel free to clarify in case i am not remembering this correctly, because as I recall; most of that weekend was one big drunken blur.

Apparently there is an issue with how this mod checks its self against your Advanced Drone Interfacing skill that requires it to be "Activated" for it to take effect and it would require a a relatively large amount of work to change.

But like I said......... I was wasted all weekend

And I do REALLY wish they would just go ahead and do it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#207 - 2014-04-01 21:02:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Chris Winter wrote:
Sounded to me like they were going to buff T1 sentry damage to T2 levels, not sure where people are complaining about a damage nerf...

It's like this:

Before:
Garde I — 50 damage ×1.60 modifier ×1.8 (Drone Interfacing IV) ×1.05 (Sentry Interfacing I) = 151.2 damage at minimum skills.
Garde I — 50 damage ×1.60 modifier ×2 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) = 200 damage at max skills.
Garde II — 50 damage ×1.92 modifier ×2 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) = 240 damage at max skills.

After:
Garde I — 64 damage ×1.7 modifier ×1.4 (DI IV) ×1.05 (SI I) = 159.9 damage at minimum skills.
Garde I — 64 damage ×1.7 modifier ×1.5 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) = 204 damage at max skills.
Garde II — 64 damage ×1.7 modifier ×1.5 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) ×1.1 (Gal. Drone Spec V) = 224.4 damage at max skills.

T1 becomes 2% better at maxed skills (6% better at minimum skills); T2 becomes 6.5% worse at max skills (and max skills requires more SP).
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#208 - 2014-04-01 21:02:58 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Sounded to me like they were going to buff T1 sentry damage to T2 levels, not sure where people are complaining about a damage nerf...


Umm...removal of a 20% improvement of T2's over T1's is NOT a buff of T1's.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#209 - 2014-04-01 21:05:15 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
Sounded to me like they were going to buff T1 sentry damage to T2 levels, not sure where people are complaining about a damage nerf...

Umm...removal of a 20% improvement of T2's over T1's is NOT a buff of T1's.

…but the buff to T1s is a buff to T1s.
Dani Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2014-04-01 21:05:23 UTC
I didn't see any mention if the skill training multipliers would be affected, like Drone Interfacing.
Or has that already been brought up in the past 11 pages but missed?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#211 - 2014-04-01 21:06:13 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Yeah, whatever.
I always believe everything a goon tells me.
That has worked so well, for so many.

hilariously there are so many of you "whatever a goon says is a lie" idiots that the finest form of eve-o trolling is simply posting the truth with a goonswarm character and watch as nutcases rush to claim up is down and black is white because a goon said those were not true

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Craven More
State War Academy
Caldari State
#212 - 2014-04-01 21:06:34 UTC
]
Quote:
For quality levels, Tech Two sentry drones are currently massive upgrades over their Tech One equivalents since range, tracking and damage are all such important attributes for sentries. We will be keeping the 20% bonuses to hitpoints, tracking, optimal, and falloff that Tech Two enjoys over Tech One; but instead of the current 20% increase in damage over T1, we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries
.

So T2 Sentries damage is being nerfed by 10% & that's assuming the player has the relevant racial skill trained to 5, if not its nerfed by even more.

Quote:
To provide consistency between all the drone systems in EVE Online, and to provide more options to capital and supercapital pilots in fitting and training, we are expanding all universal drone bonuses from skills and modules to Fighters and Fighter Bombers. This means that the drone skills, including Drone Interfacing, and modules such as Drone Damage Amplifiers will all apply their bonuses to Fighters and Fighter Bombers.

To compensate for these changes, the base damage of Fighters and Fighter Bombers is being reduced. Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal and all the other skills and bonuses from Drone Damage Amplifiers are pure additions.


Fighters have already become useless, to carrier pilots, who will use T2 sentries instead. Not seeing anything here that is going to change this situation for carrier pilots.

Superscarriers should be fine, with the exception of;

Quote:
We are also reducing the maximum number of drones available to Supercarriers from the current 20 to 10.


Will the rule be; You can either have 10 fighters or 10 fighterbombers, but not a mix and match combination?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#213 - 2014-04-01 21:07:26 UTC
i wish you could choose not to orbit but made approach and set distance into one move...

one thing i noticed is when the drones are approaching tracking is minimal and damaged application is great...

though once orbit starts the damage sucks...

Please let me setup straffing runs for drones...

thanks

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#214 - 2014-04-01 21:09:36 UTC
The Cue wrote:
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
if you're doubling the EHP and damage of FB's surely that equates to a general jump in size to FB's. Much like the gap between battlecruisers and battleships, the doubling of DPS and EHP equates to a jump in hull size. and with that you have an increase in the 'SIG RADIUS'.

so with the doubling of EHP and Damage for FB's it makes logical sense to increase its base sig radius from 125m to 250m, in line with the changes.


Except this isn't a change of lore, like a battlecruiser to battleship, it's a change for lag. Similar to the change that introduced the Drone Interfacing skill. The point is to just combine two FBs into one, making for less lag. This is a least-difference change for lag's sake, not balance.



yet in many cases changes to only particular assets in the game for lag purposes with shortsighted discrepancies in their application and general roundingness of the design concept has tended to bring about situations that become known as being overpowered. one such example is the change to high alpha DD from area effect weapons and how short sightedness failed to realise the application of that to subcaps (only to be corrected a fair while afterwards)

making a whimsical few set of changes to correct a singular nerf/buff a very widely used weapon system (and yes it is widely used) without full attention to the ramifications of that narrow mindedness created pain points and situations of imbalance itself.

just saying "ohh the changes are for less lag" without proper attention to the secondary and tertiary ramifications is utterly stupid, especially in an ultra hardcore sandbox.
Random McNally
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#215 - 2014-04-01 21:14:44 UTC
Performing a performance pass on the combat drones really is low hanging fruit.

How about those poor, poor EWAR drones?

Any sort of timeline as to when those little darlin's (at least the ones that don't have 'EC' in front of them) will be useful?

Host of High Drag Podcast. http://highdrag.wordpress.com/

Space music http://minddivided.com

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Broadcast4Reps
iskflakes
#216 - 2014-04-01 21:15:17 UTC
The nerf to supercarrier DPS is a bit excessive. They should be the same as before with one DDA, rather than two.

The other changes are all great.

-
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#217 - 2014-04-01 21:17:36 UTC
Some god stuff here, heavy drones needed the speed buff, but many unbalanced things about drones still remain:

- medium & heavy drone signatures are way too big. These get instapopped in both PVP and PVE.

- drone ships need bonuses applied to EWAR drone properties, not just combat drone dps and HP. This because drone ships have one less slot as "they have versatile drone bays". However, taking advantage of this versatility strips them from damage while giving only equal drone utility to any other ship.

- all other EWAR drones except ECMs are still useless

- fighter base tracking is too low

- no drone implants or boosters, poor selection of rigs

- sentry drone scoop range is too small, should be 5km

- drone UI?

I'm also afraid that the new navy mods buff FW income even more. Training for T2 sentries isn't going to be very interesting anymore, the benefits are just too low.

Carriers probably shouldn't be able to use sentries at all, but this is a can of worms.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#218 - 2014-04-01 21:24:28 UTC
all of you saying this is a dps nerf to supers need to wake up and realise what a 100% role bonus means when modules like drone control units exist

pretty easy to get a nyx doing 20k dps post change, its just more vulnerable in that it doesnt have as many neuts/smarties/tank

more choice in fitting is always good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#219 - 2014-04-01 21:27:30 UTC
perhaps we'll get the much waited for missile rebalance this summer aswell?????

rockets - HAMS - Torps
10km - 20km - 20km .. i see a pattern screw up here that needs fixing

also adding missiles to TE's/ TC's/ TD's would be nice

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#220 - 2014-04-01 21:29:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Chris Winter
Tippia wrote:
It's like this:

Before:
Garde I — 50 damage ×1.60 modifier ×1.8 (Drone Interfacing IV) ×1.05 (Sentry Interfacing I) = 151.2 damage at minimum skills.
Garde I — 50 damage ×1.60 modifier ×2 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) = 200 damage at max skills.
Garde II — 50 damage ×1.92 modifier ×2 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) = 240 damage at max skills.

After:
Garde I — 64 damage ×1.7 modifier ×1.4 (DI IV) ×1.05 (SI I) = 159.9 damage at minimum skills.
Garde I — 64 damage ×1.7 modifier ×1.5 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) = 204 damage at max skills.
Garde II — 64 damage ×1.7 modifier ×1.5 (DI V) ×1.25 (SI V) ×1.1 (Gal. Drone Spec V) = 224.4 damage at max skills.

T1 becomes 2% better at maxed skills (6% better at minimum skills); T2 becomes 6.5% worse at max skills (and max skills requires more SP).

Hadn't actually looked at the spreadsheet before since I was on a phone, but you're absolutely right.

I was going just by what was said in the devblog:
Quote:
instead of the current 20% increase in damage over T1, we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries.

The implication there was that they would be increasing the base damage multiplier of T1 sentries to bring them on par with T2s, not nerfing T2s down to T1 levels (after accounting for a minor bump for the Drone Interfacing change).

Combined with the change to faction sentries to bring them up to T2 optimal/falloff, the base stats of faction are now strictly better than T2. So, the 20days of training to get T2 sentries gets you...literally nothing. You just get to "unlock" the bonus of the racial specialization, requiring you to spend 5ish more days to get an 8% bonus or 20 more days for a 2% additional bonus to one racial type. That's absurd and almost nobody will bother to spend the training time to get T2 sentries.

It would be like if you had to train a 5x specialization skill for each damage type of missiles in order to get the benefit.

It seems to me like they're trying to draw parallels between drones and guns/turrets, where T2 only has the specialization bonus over T1 and faction is actually better than T2 in some ways...except they completely forgot that one of the primary advantages of T2 turrets/guns is the ability to use T2 ammo for a big specific advantage (damage or range, usually) over T1 ammo. Since drones don't have T1/T2 ammo, shoehorning them into the same pattern is just stupid. A 20% increase in damage for using T2 sentries seems perfectly reasonable compared to the bonus you get for using T2 ammo in another weapon system.

But hey, on the bright side, at least missiles no longer have the most boneheaded and expensive skill progression anymore...