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What does the Phantasm even do?

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Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#421 - 2014-03-28 08:18:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Pulse tracking isn't amazing to begin with and being shield tanked there's less options to fit a web. Not going to say it's amazingly useful but it's not a bad thing at all.
Shelom Severasse
Legion Ascending
Fraternity.
#422 - 2014-03-29 06:25:20 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The Phantasm used to be awesome. It had HAC-level firepower with a nice buffer tank and very reasonable cost, and effectively replaced the Zealot. The problem was that it was the first faction cruiser to be updated, so when CCP released the faction ship boost patch they assumed the Phantasm was already good enough since it had been updated more recently than the others. Unfortunately they were wrong, and the Phantasm is now a terrible ship since everything else around it has been made so much better.


Ah yes, this dates back to 2009, and you're looking at the one responsible for that (along with the Dramiel, Cynabal and Machariel uberness)Oops

Considering I was the one breaking this ship in the first place, the least I can do is to post here what we think of pirate ships at the moment.


  • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

  • Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.

  • Guristas: Rattlesnake and Gila we are happy with, not so much with the Worm.

  • Serpentis: we are quite pleased with all the ships in this line.

  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


    • So, when would this be coming out? Not for a while, we have a lot of more urgent rebalancing to go through, mainly with Tech1 and 2 hulls, but this definately is on our to-do list.


my 2 isk says the succubus needs 1 high slot changed into a low slot to fit either, TE, Nano, or fitting mod or whathaveyou. also a bit more speed would be nice. maybe a little more shield.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#423 - 2014-03-29 06:40:53 UTC
Shelom Severasse wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The Phantasm used to be awesome. It had HAC-level firepower with a nice buffer tank and very reasonable cost, and effectively replaced the Zealot. The problem was that it was the first faction cruiser to be updated, so when CCP released the faction ship boost patch they assumed the Phantasm was already good enough since it had been updated more recently than the others. Unfortunately they were wrong, and the Phantasm is now a terrible ship since everything else around it has been made so much better.


Ah yes, this dates back to 2009, and you're looking at the one responsible for that (along with the Dramiel, Cynabal and Machariel uberness)Oops

Considering I was the one breaking this ship in the first place, the least I can do is to post here what we think of pirate ships at the moment.


  • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

  • Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.

  • Guristas: Rattlesnake and Gila we are happy with, not so much with the Worm.

  • Serpentis: we are quite pleased with all the ships in this line.

  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


    • So, when would this be coming out? Not for a while, we have a lot of more urgent rebalancing to go through, mainly with Tech1 and 2 hulls, but this definately is on our to-do list.


my 2 isk says the succubus needs 1 high slot changed into a low slot to fit either, TE, Nano, or fitting mod or whathaveyou. also a bit more speed would be nice. maybe a little more shield.


SUCCUBUS

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)


Slot layout: 3H(-1), 4M, 3L(+1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 44 PWG(-14), 170 CPU(-5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(+41) / 550(+6) / 540(+23)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 450(+15) / 210000 (-24375) / 2.14 (+.09)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340(+53) / 3.5(-.35) / 965000 / 4.68s(-.4)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 33(-2)

Literally in the [Summer 2014] Pirate Faction Frigates thread.

Whaddya know, 1 high slot changed to a low, a bit lot more speed, and a tiny bit more shield, armour, and hull. Literally exactly what you just said, but they've already suggested it.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#424 - 2014-03-29 07:35:56 UTC
In actual PvP the AB bonus is gonna be even stronger than most people think.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#425 - 2014-04-01 14:58:33 UTC
Hope the Phantasm doesn't get an AB bonus >.<.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#426 - 2014-04-01 15:16:01 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Hope the Phantasm doesn't get an AB bonus >.<.

Why wouldn't you want an AB bonus? It doesn't lose anything for it, and allows a beastly sig tank.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#427 - 2014-04-01 17:57:18 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Hope the Phantasm doesn't get an AB bonus >.<.

Why wouldn't you want an AB bonus? It doesn't lose anything for it, and allows a beastly sig tank.



I would also add that I think the cruiser level gets the largest benefit from an AB bonus.The biggest issue with shield brawlers is that you have to gimp yourself to dual prop. So either you lose a shield or tackle module or you have no MWD and can't catch anything that doesn't want to fight you. The increased AB speed should allow a Phantasm to catch some things it normally wouldn't without giving up a valuable mid.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#428 - 2014-04-03 02:55:42 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Hope the Phantasm doesn't get an AB bonus >.<.

Why wouldn't you want an AB bonus? It doesn't lose anything for it, and allows a beastly sig tank.



I would also add that I think the cruiser level gets the largest benefit from an AB bonus.The biggest issue with shield brawlers is that you have to gimp yourself to dual prop. So either you lose a shield or tackle module or you have no MWD and can't catch anything that doesn't want to fight you. The increased AB speed should allow a Phantasm to catch some things it normally wouldn't without giving up a valuable mid.


Even with an AB bonus I doubt the phantasm will catch anything. It is already one of the slowest cruisers in the game.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#429 - 2014-04-03 03:09:51 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Hope the Phantasm doesn't get an AB bonus >.<.

Why wouldn't you want an AB bonus? It doesn't lose anything for it, and allows a beastly sig tank.



I would also add that I think the cruiser level gets the largest benefit from an AB bonus.The biggest issue with shield brawlers is that you have to gimp yourself to dual prop. So either you lose a shield or tackle module or you have no MWD and can't catch anything that doesn't want to fight you. The increased AB speed should allow a Phantasm to catch some things it normally wouldn't without giving up a valuable mid.


Even with an AB bonus I doubt the phantasm will catch anything. It is already one of the slowest cruisers in the game.

Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#430 - 2014-04-03 03:36:26 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Hope the Phantasm doesn't get an AB bonus >.<.

Why wouldn't you want an AB bonus? It doesn't lose anything for it, and allows a beastly sig tank.



I would also add that I think the cruiser level gets the largest benefit from an AB bonus.The biggest issue with shield brawlers is that you have to gimp yourself to dual prop. So either you lose a shield or tackle module or you have no MWD and can't catch anything that doesn't want to fight you. The increased AB speed should allow a Phantasm to catch some things it normally wouldn't without giving up a valuable mid.


Even with an AB bonus I doubt the phantasm will catch anything. It is already one of the slowest cruisers in the game.

The succubus was much slower before it's changes were posted so it would be unlikely if the phantasm doesn't get it's speed increased.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#431 - 2014-04-03 03:46:31 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Hope the Phantasm doesn't get an AB bonus >.<.

Why wouldn't you want an AB bonus? It doesn't lose anything for it, and allows a beastly sig tank.



I would also add that I think the cruiser level gets the largest benefit from an AB bonus.The biggest issue with shield brawlers is that you have to gimp yourself to dual prop. So either you lose a shield or tackle module or you have no MWD and can't catch anything that doesn't want to fight you. The increased AB speed should allow a Phantasm to catch some things it normally wouldn't without giving up a valuable mid.


Even with an AB bonus I doubt the phantasm will catch anything. It is already one of the slowest cruisers in the game.

The succubus was much slower before it's changes were posted so it would be unlikely if the phantasm doesn't get it's speed increased.


Speculation.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#432 - 2014-04-03 04:20:23 UTC
Speculation backed by facts about a ship meant to be the class equivalent.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Shelom Severasse
Legion Ascending
Fraternity.
#433 - 2014-04-03 04:51:19 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Shelom Severasse wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The Phantasm used to be awesome. It had HAC-level firepower with a nice buffer tank and very reasonable cost, and effectively replaced the Zealot. The problem was that it was the first faction cruiser to be updated, so when CCP released the faction ship boost patch they assumed the Phantasm was already good enough since it had been updated more recently than the others. Unfortunately they were wrong, and the Phantasm is now a terrible ship since everything else around it has been made so much better.


Ah yes, this dates back to 2009, and you're looking at the one responsible for that (along with the Dramiel, Cynabal and Machariel uberness)Oops

Considering I was the one breaking this ship in the first place, the least I can do is to post here what we think of pirate ships at the moment.


  • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

  • Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.

  • Guristas: Rattlesnake and Gila we are happy with, not so much with the Worm.

  • Serpentis: we are quite pleased with all the ships in this line.

  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


    • So, when would this be coming out? Not for a while, we have a lot of more urgent rebalancing to go through, mainly with Tech1 and 2 hulls, but this definately is on our to-do list.


my 2 isk says the succubus needs 1 high slot changed into a low slot to fit either, TE, Nano, or fitting mod or whathaveyou. also a bit more speed would be nice. maybe a little more shield.


SUCCUBUS

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)


Slot layout: 3H(-1), 4M, 3L(+1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 44 PWG(-14), 170 CPU(-5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(+41) / 550(+6) / 540(+23)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 450(+15) / 210000 (-24375) / 2.14 (+.09)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340(+53) / 3.5(-.35) / 965000 / 4.68s(-.4)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 33(-2)

Literally in the [Summer 2014] Pirate Faction Frigates thread.

Whaddya know, 1 high slot changed to a low, a bit lot more speed, and a tiny bit more shield, armour, and hull. Literally exactly what you just said, but they've already suggested it.

oh wow. well would you look at that lol
O Thief
Unknowns.
#434 - 2014-04-03 09:35:08 UTC
...
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#435 - 2014-04-03 16:06:50 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Speculation backed by facts about a ship meant to be the class equivalent.


Just because the succubus gets a speed buff doesn't mean the phantasm will too.


If a dramiel gets nerfed does that also mean the cynabal and mach get the same nerf? No they don't (and didn't),

So what you said was pure speculation.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#436 - 2014-04-03 16:30:49 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Speculation backed by facts about a ship meant to be the class equivalent.


Just because the succubus gets a speed buff doesn't mean the phantasm will too.


If a dramiel gets nerfed does that also mean the cynabal and mach get the same nerf? No they don't (and didn't),

So what you said was pure speculation.



They're all of the same flavour though.
Dramiel is faster than usual frigs.
Cynabal is faster than usual cruisers.
Machariel is faster than usual Battleships.

Cruor has neuts & webs.
Ashimmu has neuts & webs.
Bhaalgorn has neuts & webs.


It is very likely that the Phantsam will get an AB Speed bonus.
And if not, it will still most likely be something that will increase it's mobility.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#437 - 2014-04-03 17:04:08 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Speculation backed by facts about a ship meant to be the class equivalent.


Just because the succubus gets a speed buff doesn't mean the phantasm will too.


If a dramiel gets nerfed does that also mean the cynabal and mach get the same nerf? No they don't (and didn't),

So what you said was pure speculation.

You should probably read the pirate frigate thread a bit closer. Rise heavily implies that all sansha ship s are getting a bonus to afterburners.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#438 - 2014-04-03 17:24:47 UTC
Which is just stupid if they give the NM an AB bonus.

WTF is the nightmare going to do with an AB bonus?

It has only 1 role in the game now: incursion runner, and that role does not make use of an AB.

PvP? Lulz, no. Easily capped out, slow = dead
Solo PvE? get a marauder
Group PvE: on par with the mach and vindi for general usefulness in HQ sites and maybe VGs as well (assault sites, lol, who cares about assault sites?)
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#439 - 2014-04-03 17:56:20 UTC
For whatever reason, Rise & Fozzie think the NM is more or less fine as is. So it will probably just get the AB bonus, a touch more base speed and trade a high slot for a low slot. They specifically chose the changes to the ship line to have a larger effect on the Succubus and Phantasm and a smaller effect on the NM. I am not saying I agree with that but it is more or less what Rise said.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#440 - 2014-04-03 18:13:34 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:

They're all of the same flavour though.
Dramiel is faster than usual frigs.
Cynabal is faster than usual cruisers.
Machariel is faster than usual Battleships.


This is not entirely true.

The Cynabel is a very very large frigate, not a cruiser and

the machariel is a very, very, very large cruiser, not a battleship. Think of it more like an aircraftcarrier with motorcycle mobility.

Does this sound right to you?

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