EVE General Discussion

Hello CCP Falcon, I submit the following for CCP consideration:

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"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."

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How the above applies to the "Bonus Room":

Erotica1 inflicts systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, through means of several hours of subjecting the victim to demeaning and humiliating tasks alongside harassment and insulting from himself and his peers, in order to accomplish their purpose of causing the victim to leave the situation, against the will of the victim to fulfill the Bonus Rooms demands for the reward promised in the contract of the Bonus Room between the victim and the perpetrators.

It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.

It is also not necessary for the victim to have entered involuntarily into the situation in which the torture occurs.
It is immaterial how the victim ends up in the situation in which he is tortured, all that is material, is whether what the victim is subjected to in that situation, constitutes torture as defined above.

An analogy would be a wife remaining in an abusive relationship with a husband who inflicts upon her systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, because she knows that if she files for divorce, all the assets, including the house, would remain in the property of her husband, as they are in his name. What the husband is doing to her, though superficially enabled by her remaining, nonetheless constitutes torture, as he is accomplishing the purposes of his will, namely of her remaining there for him to torture, against the will of the latter to leave the situation, as he knows full well she can and will not because then she is homeless and destitute.

In Erotica1s Bonus Room torture itself is the MEANS whereby they accomplish their goal and will, of, sooner or later, forcing the victim to leave the situation, at which point Erotica1 wins the Bonus Room. This is achieved by inflicting on the victim systemaric and deliberate acute psychological pain.

That Erotica1 causes the victims acute psychological pain, is evidenced by the psychological state the conduct they are subjected to in the Bonus Room results in. The victims are obviously suffering from it. Of that there is no question.

A Dev has been made to sing for his ship. But he did not suffer acute psychological pain in the process.
It is evident from the recording, however that Sohkar and his wife, did.

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Torture is internationally held illegal in almost every jurisdiction on Earth, including ALL international legal agencies.

Any even superficial indication of torture occuring, needs to be investigated thoroughly by all concerned authorities.

Part of the reason why I love EVE so much is that when you lose at PVP, you actually LOSE something. It's more tangible than just having to respawn.

I love that I'm potentially ruining someone's day a little by blowing up their space pixels.

That's a sadistic pleasure.

Experiencing even the slightest bit of schadenfreude is also a sadistic pleasure.

So stop bandying about with terms like "morally indefensible", "sadistic", or "psychological torture".

If you've ever committed corp espionage, you've done something that's morally indefensible.

if you've ever performed any activity whatsoever to try and make a person not want to play the game, you've set yourself to find a way to torture their psyche.

If you've ever pvped, or taken pleasure at someone's downfall in EVE (like Mittens being kicked from the CSM), then you've done something sadistic.

The question to be asked is: In a game where you can spend a year, or more, becoming a close friend of people just so you can shank them in the back when it matters most, how is this worse?

... that's not rhetorical.

So let me ask you some simple questions:
Does Erotic 1 deserve a ban (some are even pushing for a lifetime ban)?
If yes, on what grounds?
Which rules did he break to result in this punishment?

the CIA has been going about the wrong way keeping their conversations going, they obviously need to scam them in eve online instead of going through all the trouble of capturing them and doing all that waterboarding stuff

It's obviously not the same thing is it.

To summarize the situation:

1) Most players are willing to accept that the following continues in EVE Online:

Pilots are able to advertise to double, triple, or quadruple any ISK you give them. We all know it's a scam but if you time it right you MIGHT come out on the right side. But most people will ignore and /or 'block'.

Pilots who give ISK to these 'scammers' but don't receive any ISK back may get angry and send EVE mails or do in-game text making comments commonly known as tears or 'QQ'.

'Scammers' may choose to quote some of the victims comments or 'QQ' in their pilot's Bio sections, Corp description sections, or even onto the forum if that doesn't break any forum rules.

I think most of us are alright with it up to that point and accept that New Eden is cruel, or crueller, than RL.

2) I think most players are not so willing to accept:

Erotica 1's 'bonus room' gimic. I had seen Erotica 1 flying about or in the forum before but hadn't scrolled down to the bottom of Erotica 1's bio so I didn't know it existed. Also I doubt if there have been 100 'donators' to enable the 'bonus' room' to be available.

Opening voice convo either EVE Voice or other voice software to prolong the victims loss. A lot of us have probably fallen victim to scams of numerous types or maybe messed up on a trading or contract interface and given away ISK or stuff we didn't intend to. **** happens as they say. BUT I think most of us are in agreement that once you have scammed someone you should not seek to anger them further on that event by talking to them.

Taking the mickey or verbally harassing someone over their disability. This is the point where Erotica 1 should have realised he had gone too far and ended the convo. When the victims wife took over and stated asking what was going on this really should have been a hammer to his head. Any right thinking person just doesn't do this. The convo had gone way beyond the pale.

A lot of replies are focusing on the angry outburst from the victim once he had reached the end of his tether and sounded near to an emotional breakdown. I would argue that most of us would have exploded like that if they had been in that convo for hours like he was. So to focus on the wording of his barrage of uncontrollable anger is beside the point and is not the issue. The sole issue is that Erotica 1 took things too far and should have engaged his brain.

Only because you haven't provided any proof.

Taking the mickey or verbally harassing someone over their disability. This is the point where Erotica 1 should have realised he had gone too far and ended the convo. When the victims wife took over and stated asking what was going on this really should have been a hammer to his head. Any right thinking person just doesn't do this. The convo had gone way beyond the pale.

A lot of replies are focusing on the angry outburst from the victim once he had reached the end of his tether and sounded near to an emotional breakdown. I would argue that most of us would have exploded like that if they had been in that convo for hours like he was. So to focus on the wording of his barrage of uncontrollable anger is beside the point and is not the issue. The sole issue is that Erotica 1 took things too far and should have engaged his brain.