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New aggro timers and self distruct
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MentaL DoG
Priory Of The Lemon
Sigma Grindset
#1 - 2011-11-30 01:21:42 UTC
Right first off the new aggro timers are great, who ever thought that up is epic.
But can we add that if you have aggro you can't self-distruct.
It's a little thing, but as it stands you get the shiny tackled and have as long as you like to kill it,
then it goes pop from self-destruct with no mail or loot for your work, some will say fail for not having the dps, that is true, but some of the big stuff in eve are just a grind to kill even with a monster fleet, that's why the log off tactic was so good for them.

So my ideas for this are

1) you can't self-destruct with aggro

2) if you self-destruct with aggro a mail is still made.
2a) loot drops

3) poss much longer timers for bigger or more expensive ****.

Anyways that's it, let the haters rip it apart now.

Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe.VOTE D3 FOR CSM Chair

hahahahah Sorry so Sorry mittani
Deitis Surtic
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-11-30 02:23:15 UTC
2 isn't bad, minus 2a.

The whole point of self-destructing an asset is to make sure it doesn't fall into hostile hands - be it the ship or the fittings associated with it.

1 is a horrific idea, 3 isn't far off.

- D
Mag's
Azn Empire
#3 - 2011-11-30 02:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
I have a quote that seems fitting for this thread too.

Hirana Yoshida wrote:
You forgot the obvious forth option:

4. Nothing needs to change.

Mankind has used scuttling to prevent capture of ships/cargo and to block harbours since we first set sail way back in the early days of civilization. E-Peen is the only reason why you could possible want it in Eve and if you really need it to be stroked with such fervour then you have way bigger problems than a mail or two.
SD is working as it should, it's a way of denying you loot and a KM. Kill them before it happens or don't get the KM and loot, it's really that simple.

But you've still succeeded in killing your opponent anyway, so job done.

Edit: Quote changed to reflect your option count.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Rina Asanari
CitadeI
#4 - 2011-11-30 08:54:38 UTC
Yet another "can't kill them quick enough for them not to SD or logout".

Simple: If you can't, you aren't supposed to.
MentaL DoG
Priory Of The Lemon
Sigma Grindset
#5 - 2011-11-30 10:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: MentaL DoG
Yep yep I def see why S-D is good but bar dropping a **** tonn of moms on a Titan or some of the other big stuff out ther, 2min isn't long at all, the loot thing is fine i see that point to but no mail.
If you force someone to S-D surly there should be a mail.

My reason for this change Is yes because the S-D kicked in at 5% structure on a shiny, we hunted tackled and almost lol killed him, forcing him to SD. Part of the job done but there's no record, yes that's my Epeen talking but isn't that sort of the point of games to have fun and fun for many of eve is getting the mail with the lol,s in it. Pod mails have been added and see how many high sec aft pods have died just for the mail, SD needs a mail even if the aggressors arent on it. A record should be made.

Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe.VOTE D3 FOR CSM Chair

hahahahah Sorry so Sorry mittani
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#6 - 2011-11-30 10:51:56 UTC
Rina Asanari wrote:
Yet another "can't kill them quick enough for them not to SD or logout".

Simple: If you can't, you aren't supposed to.

And logout doesn't even work for them anymore. They either self destruct or die anyway, so there's even less need for a SD change now than there was previously.

Scuttling is a perfectly valid mechanic, and you didn't kill them - they killed themselves.
MentaL DoG
Priory Of The Lemon
Sigma Grindset
#7 - 2011-11-30 11:46:29 UTC
Durzel wrote:
Rina Asanari wrote:
Yet another "can't kill them quick enough for them not to SD or logout".

Simple: If you can't, you aren't supposed to.

And logout doesn't even work for them anymore. They either self destruct or die anyway, so there's even less need for a SD change now than there was previously.

Scuttling is a perfectly valid mechanic, and you didn't kill them - they killed themselves.



very true but you made them do it, they wouldn't have done it otherwise. I guess i really just want to see what Jew gold i made them pop themselves. well more and more peeps will see my side once all the shinys they tackle SD them-self but i do see the other side, i think SD is gay but its def better then that faggity log off trick, so glad its fixed now.

Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe.VOTE D3 FOR CSM Chair

hahahahah Sorry so Sorry mittani
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#8 - 2011-11-30 12:14:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
selfdestruct is working great.
This has been already discussed here recently.

MentaL DoG wrote:

very true but you made them do it, they wouldn't have done it otherwise. I guess i really just want to see what Jew gold i made them pop themselves.

its exactly the purpose of SD to prevent that.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-11-30 14:22:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Aqriue
The only reason to self destruct is to bring tears to people

*looks up at top post*

Yup, working like intended. Making people feel like a looser when you end up loosing, which is what the entire MAD principle during the Cold War was about (Mutually Assured Destruction: you throw nukes at us, we launch them at you. Its win/win = we both loose as cities go up in flames or is it really worthwile to launch those things in the first place?).

And here is the thing to the OP: You have 2 minutes, hell EVERYBODY but you know that but can't except it. Thats the time already dictated by CCP, if you can't destroy in that time frame you loose. Prior to that, you could log off and get away to fight another day (which Gallente being part french, should be excluded from the log off mechanics and able to logoffski safely Roll ). So if you were fighting a good fight and suddenly the enemy brings in more then you anticipated...EXIT STAGE RIGHT EVEN!!!! and save that precious super cap. Now, its either 2 minutes or self destruct. Given six months from now I bet there will be alot more super cap losses to self destruct more so then cap kills. In the end, that ship is gone and its better for the economy because now miners will have an actual reason to mine.
MentaL DoG
Priory Of The Lemon
Sigma Grindset
#10 - 2011-11-30 14:43:25 UTC
the reason for SD is the loss of loot and mail to your reds, but fine no loot drop but the mail, at least give me the mail, he was forced to SD so i dont see why i shouldnt see what i didnt get to loot.

Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe.VOTE D3 FOR CSM Chair

hahahahah Sorry so Sorry mittani
Mag's
Azn Empire
#11 - 2011-11-30 14:48:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
MentaL DoG wrote:
the reason for SD is the loss of loot and mail to your reds, but fine no loot drop but the mail, at least give me the mail, he was forced to SD so i dont see why i shouldnt see what i didnt get to loot.
Yes he was forced to SD, you drove him to it and it's a job well done. Your epeen stroking won't alter the fact he's down 1 ship and isn't justification to change SD mechanics.

If you're that bothered, run fraps when you fight. Then if it happens, post the vid on the forums.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#12 - 2011-11-30 15:11:31 UTC
MentaL DoG wrote:
the reason for SD is the loss of loot and mail to your reds, but fine no loot drop but the mail, at least give me the mail, he was forced to SD so i dont see why i shouldnt see what i didnt get to loot.


The very good reason of SD is exactly for what you're doing here, cry.

Cry me a river.
MentaL DoG
Priory Of The Lemon
Sigma Grindset
#13 - 2011-12-03 22:00:14 UTC
well if anything id think peeps would want to see the mail, of a ship that SD, haha to may have tackled me but look what you didnt get hahaha, that would be my view anyway, SD is a rubbish tactic, have a fight go down shooting, to many peeps eject or SD but find keep it the way it is. i give up, what a load of hater you all are.

Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe.VOTE D3 FOR CSM Chair

hahahahah Sorry so Sorry mittani
Rina Asanari
CitadeI
#14 - 2011-12-04 07:06:45 UTC
Oh, cry me a river....

No killmail on self-destructs, period. Even for just the reason to deny the opponent the intelligence. For example, people wouldn't learn of the big kinetic hole I had on the ship...

I'd go that far to say that killmails tell way too much about the ship being dusted. The modules being dropped, that's a given, but at most only a fraction of what has gone up in flames and definitely NOT the complete loadout.
MentaL DoG
Priory Of The Lemon
Sigma Grindset
#15 - 2011-12-05 11:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: MentaL DoG
well, how about a blank mail stating that the ship was SD. no loot no mods. just that it was forced to SD due to Aggro.

ie no mail if you SD a ship with no aggro, mail is only gend when you have aggro and the last person to shoot gets the mail ?

Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe.VOTE D3 FOR CSM Chair

hahahahah Sorry so Sorry mittani
MentaL DoG
Priory Of The Lemon
Sigma Grindset
#16 - 2011-12-07 00:35:23 UTC
as i understand it SD was added way before super caps where added, not everyone flys around with a blob of 100 plus, or as a bat phone 24/7, if SD hasnt changed since they added supers how can it be working as intended or did ccp just luck out with that one,

ill give the haters of my idea the fact that SD is a great way to stop loot and mail alike, but to say that its fine is pure bull, SD'ing anything is a crappy way to go, extend the SD timer at least for the bigger ships anything with over 150k base hp or what ever.

SD is def in need of a look at, it may not be any of my ideas but it needs a change.

Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe.VOTE D3 FOR CSM Chair

hahahahah Sorry so Sorry mittani
Rina Asanari
CitadeI
#17 - 2011-12-07 08:56:28 UTC
More or less, I'd even propose that an SD does some AoE damage... the bigger the ship, the more damage it does on exploding.

Hmmm.... Maybe make it even configurable: Let's say setting up the ship for selfdestruct in two minutes is enough to destroy the ship and all of its contents completely (i.e. no loot), but nothing else, anything less and you risk salvageable or lootable leftovers, and extending the timer (maybe to five minutes) will ensure a BIG blast taking out everyone of the same size (and maybe a class upwards) and smaller around yourself.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-12-07 11:28:30 UTC
MentaL DoG wrote:
SD'ing anything is a crappy way to
SD is def in need of a look at, it may not be any of my ideas but it needs a change.

SD as stated works exactly as intended, you are just ignoring that fact. To p*ss you off.

Bro, this isn't Medal of Duty : Halo Strike. In EVE, all of us players bring personal grudges into a video game and will do anything to 1-up the other guy to ruin his day by any means necessary and it makes us feel better knowing we do it. We are not honor bound to provide you a killmail, because the other guys are not honor bound to honor a ransom after you paid it (double loss, never pay) or let us do what we want in peace (don't like the fact someone is making bank off incursions, ruin their fleets). You can do anything in EVE you want, to screw over the other guy: Scam someone out of a PLEX and BOOM! 30 free days for you, Gank someone's shiny new Hulk then gank it again the next day and the next so long as its not a personal vendetta its ok (as in mix it up and gank every hulk in that system, it isn't griefing) then you are down 1 bill isk...why buy another hulk and tie yourself up like a goat again?

You can do anything you want, to ruin the other guys gaming experience. You can stick around if you want and fight to the end, but the rest of us will do anything we want because we are not bound by moral concepts to let you have a killmail so you can feel better about yourself when the entire point of EVE is to aggresively take anything from other people.

Only reason log off timers were changed was because people risked the cap ship, found they were losing, and ran away knowing you couldn't kill the ship in 15 minutes. They would go back into another battle and if found they were losing, they logged off again. So it was fixed, so you can't run away if you commit to the fight you are commited and have to manually move that ship out with an emergacy cyno. SD works exactly as it is shown: You have 2 minutes (overload your guns or bring more people) which everyone knows about...once its gone its gone and its not possible to bring that cap ship back into the fight like logoffski could. So there is no reason to change SD except to make it shorter (10 seconds would be F*CKING AWESOME!!! Lol ) and take out your pod with it Twisted denying you evrything so both of us could move on quickly with our games.
Schnoo
The Schnoo
#19 - 2011-12-07 12:58:12 UTC
Keep it simple and just make self destruct time a function of ship size (non-linear).
Even though you have more dps at higher ship sizes (bigger tanks), the ratio is a lot different than for smaller ships. Example given when comparing standard Harbinger HP/DPS to Coercer HP/DPS, around 90k/900 and10k/350 respectively, giving 100HP/DPS and 29HP/DPS, a drastic difference in tank/gank.
MentaL DoG
Priory Of The Lemon
Sigma Grindset
#20 - 2011-12-08 00:38:33 UTC
Well sure its true i want the mail for my work, but what's wrong with that, a sorter SD time would def get things going but i dont see that helping the game really.

SD is a cop out, i cant see how anyone can see it diffident, if i made them hit that button shouldn't i get a mail. ?

i know i know working as intended,

guess its a dead issue,
guess ill just join RA like everyone else and blob everything untill the node crashes ya,

great time to be playing eve.

close the thread DEV dude its over i give up. Sad

Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe.VOTE D3 FOR CSM Chair

hahahahah Sorry so Sorry mittani
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